Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds Part III. Is It Finally Over?

Israeli Defense Minister Israel Katz has ordered the army to prepare for the complete elimination of Hamas.
This is in case the Palestinian movement does not adhere to the agreements of the ceasefire, writes news site The Times of Israel.
Katz states in a statement that Hamas must be disarmed and that all "terrorist infrastructure," such as tunnels, must be destroyed.
The bodies of all deceased hostages must also be returned.

Hamas points out that the remains of some of them are probably under buildings bombed by Israel. It would therefore take a lot of time and effort to find those bodies.

"If Hamas refuses to implement the agreement, Israel, in cooperation with the US, will resume the fight and take action to completely defeat Hamas, change the situation in Gaza and achieve all the objectives of the war," Katz said.

Hamas says it has handed over all bodies of hostages that have been found so far to Israel.
The movement would need special tools to find the rest of the remains and expects that to take a lot of time.
On Monday and Tuesday, Hamas handed over the bodies of eight hostages.
At the same time as Hamas's statement that all bodies have now been returned, Israel reported that the Red Cross was on its way to pick up more coffins with remains. According to the Israeli army, it was the bodies of two people. Israel previously expressed dissatisfaction with the pace at which Hamas returns the deceased hostages.
The Palestinian movement has already indicated that it does not know exactly where all the bodies are. Some are said to be under the rubble of buildings bombed by Israel.

Hamas says it is doing its best to find those bodies and thus to keep to the agreements made.
Israel disagrees.

US President Donald Trump told CNN on Wednesday that he would allow Israel to resume the war if Hamas does not comply with the deal. The Israeli troops would be back in Gaza, "as soon as I say it," according to Trump.

 

This "peace deal" was doomed from the start because the only one interested in it is Trump.

As always with Trump. It's all performative. It's all about the show.

Hamas were never going to put down arms. They said as much the entire time. Trump just ignored that because the piece wouldn't fit into his jigsaw.

Geopolitics is not a ********ing real estate deal. It never has been.

 

He emigrated to Colombia, then came back.

 

Ok if we are talking about specific incidents of war crimes that's a little different.

I the implication was that the attack of a political group without self-determination (Hamas) against the entity that was oppressing them (Israel) was being alleged as a war crime. Israel had Palestinian hostages before October 7th, it took a lot of Palestinian hostages after October 7th, and still do this day continues to hold Palestinians hostage after the ceasefire.

 

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/...kicked-me-every-time-the-flag-touched-my-face

Greta spoke with a Swedish newspaper and finally documented her experiences with the flotilla as well as in Israeli captivity. It's worth the read.

– They moved me very brutally to a corner that I was turned towards. ‘A special place for a special lady’, they said. And then they had learned ‘Lilla hora’ (Little whore) and ‘Hora Greta’ (Whore Greta) in Swedish, which they repeated all the time.


Every time someone looked up from the ground, they were knocked back down to the ground, Greta and the other Swedes recount. In the corner where Greta was sitting, the police placed a flag.

– The flag was placed so that it would touch me. When it fluttered and touched me, they shouted ‘Don’t touch the flag’ and kicked me in the side. After a while, my hands were tied with cable ties, very tightly. A bunch of guards lined up to take selfies with me while I was sitting like that.


When Greta got back the bag that had been confiscated by the Israeli police, someone had written “Whore Greta” on it and drawn a penis and an Israeli flag over it.Foto: Magnus Wennman
– They took my bag and threw away everything they interpreted as being related to Palestine. They took every item and stared into my eyes while slowly cutting them up with a knife, while ten people took selfies.


Suddenly, the far-right minister Itamar Ben-Gvir entered the area and stood in front of everyone, Greta recounts.

– He shouted, ’You are terrorists. You want to kill Jewish babies.’ Those who shouted back were taken aside and beaten. They were thrown to the ground and beaten. But I could only see it out of the corner of my eye, because every time I lifted my head from the ground, I was kicked by the guard standing next to me.

 

Israel continues to hold many Palestinians without charge or trial or conviction. They are assuredly hostages.

 

Many people just turn a blind eye to these kind of thing. They either dont want to believe that about Israeli soldiers or they sympathize with their actions.
But hearing the accounts of some of the sumud flotilla activisits (including American Jews) I dont think people realise just how far down the rabbit hole Israel has gone. Not just as a state, but as a society.

Israel is living on borrowed time. States that undergo such far right radicalization dont have much of a chance of surviving. The violence and vitriol inevitably turns inwards and crumbles the foundations and institutions of the state.

We have seen a taste of this with the Sde Teiman episode.

 

Thats fine, I have no particular opinion of Greta. I have listened to a couple of interviews by American Jews that reported similar brutal treatment, and another Swedish activist (not Greta). They could off course all be lying, but I dont believe it to be the case.

I want to be clear about something though. I dont believe Israel will suddenly collapse one day. Thats not the scenario. It will be a long term gradual societal and institutional disintegration.
It will be some what of a failed state. A rump state if you will, where different groups form that are not controlled by a strong central government. Kinda like the days of militant groups like Haganah and Irgun etc, before formation of the state of Israel. Except the highly educated people will probably opt to leave the country, and those that are left are the lowly educated Messianic settlers, the secular far right and the Ultra Orthodox.

Maybe a far fetched scenario for some people, but thats the direction I see Israel spiralling unless something DRASTIC happens. It will only last as a formal state in the long term as long as the Western state/patrons (the US in particular) are willing to pay the costs for it.
Although I personally think Israel is past the point of no return and has spiralled down so far down the rabbit hole, that Western states may decide that Israel will no longer really be worth the trouble.

 

You have no clue of what a colonial carceral regime looks like.

 

I call this the willful blindness of a colonial society living in denial of the mass crimes committed in its name that happened just a few miles from home. This is hardly the sign of a functioning society. Any society that is so militarized, based on inequality of status with its near neighbors and founded on thecratic principles, is bound to be dysfunctional. Any colonial society is by essence dysfunctional. The awakening—if it comes, perhaps within a generation—could be brutal.

 

You're certainly well within your rights to have issues with Greta Thunberg, but her account is consistent with that of others on the flotilla. Every account I've seen has Israel soldiers beating prisoners if the Israeli flag so much as accidentally touched their faces (this after the Israeli soldiers deliberately placed the flag next to the prisoners' faces).

This is a sincere question and not meant to be argumentative, because Hebrew language discourse is quite different from what's said in English: how much discussion do you see of the suffering of Gazans, and how much discussion do you see of IDF atrocities?

 

Oooh, another Tiffany Sue proclamation, without any support and easily rebutted.

Israel absolutely kidnaps families from their homes. In Hebron, their practice is to storm people's homes in the middle of the night and kidnap children.

They've held doctors, paramedics, and journalists without charge for months.

Umm, this is false and I've explained to you that this is false repeatedly. You've repeatedly refused to engage with my posts that point out how you're wrong: it's gotten to the point where I have to conclude that you're either a bot or acting in complete bad faith.

To rebut this point again, people have literally died from being raped to death in Israeli prisons. And here's an example of someone who was literally blinded in Israeli prisons:

The released Palestinian prisoner, Mahmoud Abu Foul, 28 years old, was subjected to severe torture with iron rods and electric shocks in Israeli torture camps, which caused him to lose one leg and both eyes.

A crime that the whole world must see. pic.twitter.com/eMd0tHdWGU

— Censored Humans (@CensoredHumans) October 15, 2025

And as I previously pointed out to you, Israel's campaign of starvation was so pervasive that the hashtag #AbuFit was trending on Hebrew language telegram and it was making fun of just how emaciated prisoners in Israeli prisons looked:

🧵Israelis are outraged about the condition of the released captives, but when Palestinian abductees come out of Israeli torture camps looking like holocaust survivors, Israelis joke about it.

The hashtag #אבו_חטוב ("Abu Fit") is everywhere, including Abu Ali Express, Israel's… https://t.co/M9S2s0mLZ4 pic.twitter.com/756bnePSPD

— B.M. (@ireallyhateyou) February 9, 2025

I've rebutted this repeatedly. As has everyone else. You've never engaged with the rebuttals, instead doubling down on statements you know to be false.

 

I want it to say it loud and clear I do not view Israelis as an enemy. I think what we are seeing in America is probably seen in similar shades in Israel which is that a sizable portion of the population is having things done in their name that horrifies them. I do have sympathy for Israelis in that situation because the society has gone so far to the right and that has to be a terrifying situation. When you add on the fact that actions of the IDF have done so much to increase anti-semitism across the world it isn't hard to apply that sympathy to Jewish people living everywhere.

But I think the reality is that Israel as a country is at a tipping point. As the US Empire declines, its source of legitimacy goes with it. You might call me cynical but one of the reasons why Israel exists is because it lies at the heart of the historic Ottoman Empire. We are talking about an EU sized, American sized zone that existed as a geopolitical entity for over 700 years. It's a remnant of American Empire. So as American Empire fades in influence, so does the legitimacy of the Israeli state.


From a population demographics perspective I would imagine a peace and reconciliation process ending Apartheid would see a ton of Jewish people choose to leave and live in Europe or North America instead of living alongside Palestinians in a condition of equal rights and responsibilities. But that would be the most logical step IF your main interest was in respecting the dignity of all people and ending the conflict in a balanced way. Just like in South Africa I think you'd see the worst of the oppressors leave and in its place you'd have a society of people who are interested in trying to live alongside each other.

This next part I know people are going to call labels at me for suggesting but I do want people to think about the possibility of this being an added explanation for the Netanyahu regime. Such labels only discourage open inquiry and thought which is why you will never see me hold back. I am no Holocaust denier and you will never see me spout of global conspiracies. I'm anti-capitalist I think the problem is all billionaires, not just Jewish ones. You have to keep in mind when weighing this that I don't think Fascists understand that people think differently than they do. I truly believe they just think of leftists as weak people who can't get what they want the way fascists get things--through force. With that being said:

Who benefits the most from Jews not feeling safe in America or Europe?
For a state that has a slim majority in a geographic area that they have been de facto colonizing for the past 80 or so years? I think Israel does. One of the first things a cult will do is to isolate you, which makes you dependent on their information, their norms etc. Obviously this is a risky move as Western political pressure has been very negative for the country, but I think you have to balance that with the understanding that Israel really believed that they could continue to control the Narrative in the West as they have for decades. They really did have a blind spot when it came to the current version of social media. What they didn't realize is that society has moved beyond the fourth estate. A fifth estate has been founded and it's a person with a cell phone pointed at tyranny. Because it says do what you want to me but the whole world will see. Israel really wasn't counting on the whole world seeing and believing.

I don't think yasik19 is a bad person. I know we disagree on a lot when it comes to this conflict. I truly believe that they have a good moral core, but it's being torn because of loyalty to family, to religion, and to the historical safety. I can understand a lot of those fears, I just see him/her/them being manipulated by a Fascist society that is hellbent on grabbing as much land from the Palestinian people as possible. Just look at their last post--->They have said several times that they do not support Bibi and the far right element of Israeli society. They say this because they do know on some level what they have done is bad. Yet, they continue to believe it's propaganda about Greta Thunberg to the point where they still believe this fascist regime over the victims of its actions. That's doublethink.

 

Sorry, Tiffanee.
Put down those huge blinders in front of your face. Decades long Israeli settlers, in cooperation with murderous idf soldiers have been killing innocent children on the Westbank.
If those "prisoners" are criminals, why are they detained without charges and real trials? Because these arenot what you claim they are?
A true "rule of the law" country doesnot steep to these actions, targeted to a specific ethnic group.
You know that and we're getting very tired of this false mantra, because it doesnot give you the credit of being truthfull, but that of a whitewashing of the crimes of the israeli government.
When one sees these images of your lies about "encouraging" becomes chilling, as it makes you complicit to using lies as a means to eradicate the Gazans.


I just watched on tv the images of people at Rafah, waiting for goods to be let through.
You talk about hostages, being skeletons, but you repeatedly denied the existence of starvation, visible at Rafah checkpoint, among all images we know.
You talk about hostages being tortured, and I'm not going to doubt that, given the nature of the hamas beasts, but you have massive blinders on about the by Israeli human rights groups reported torture, rape etc. inflicted on those "only prisoners remaining in Israel are the most dangerous ones", which are so proven dangerous, no charges are made, no proof put on the table and no judge to look at the "evidence".

Stop being ignorant, as you've been fed enough reliable material ij here, including from Israeli sources, that goes frontal collision with your tiring mantra.

 

I've posted about the new anti-semitism. The one bibi, and the Israeli people themselves have created
The new anti-Semitism, which has been brought into the world by Israel itself. The kind that has been shaped by the images of destruction, dead babies in incubators that have been shot to pieces, children emaciated to the bone, or shot. Destroyed hospitals and that image of the flags with the Star of David that is triumphantly paraded in this violation of everything that has to do with humanity.
The old anti-semitism was based on humbug, superstition and religious bigotry of the European christianity and hate towards an innocent people.
This new one has settled in the population of the world, that has nothing to do with the holocaust/pogroms etc.
As I posted they don't see it as something that has a relation with them, it's your white supremacy legagy and history of the west.
So they don't care about "guilt" as a means to turn a blind eye to the atrocities.
They see almost in real time what's being done to a defenseless people with most modern war destruction machines the west has.
There's no point of return anymore.
In here alot of people simply cannot understand/grasp what I tell them, caught in their western bubble.
They deny it and tell me I'm all sorts of things.

 

40% of male Palestinians have been in prison at some moment in their life since 1967... Are they all terrorists ??
The regime of administrative detention -which allows to detain thousands of Palestinians indefinitely, without trial and without notifying them of what they are accused of- is abusive, arbitrary and should scandalize anyone who cares about fundamental freedoms and who fights against colonial regimes.

 

Good and thoughtful post. I dont think Israelis are born bad. Hate is something that is teached. And I would argue that being born Israeli that object occupation, apartheid, subjugation is like climbing mount Everest for that particular Israeli. They barely stand a chance under this current system that has been formed on the cost and displacement of Palestinians.
Now, I want to be clear. A lot of countries have been founded on an injustice. I recognize Israelis as a people with their own culture and sense of belonging to their state.
The problem is that Israel should have quit ahead (for their own sake) at the 1967 borders. A 60 year old occupation changes and corrodes a society. I have said this so many times, that I probably sound like a broken record. You have to look at the people you subjugate/occupy as inferior in order to be able to do it. Its a tragic paradox that you lose your own humanity when you dehumanize another people.

I dont think yasik is a bad person either. He has family there and probably feel a sense of connection to Israelis. But while he dismisses my claims as anecdotal, the irony is that he uses claims made of family/friends in Israel to make a counter argument.
I will be blunt. On a macro level, the Israeli society is either genocidal at worst. Or indifferent to genocide at best. Gaza is effectively gone. Its a wasteland. Pretty obvious outcome after having dropped bombs equivalent to 5-6 Hiroshimas.
What does it say about a society where polling shows over 90 percent of the population thinks Israel has used either propotionate or too little force?

What has happened to Israeli society is not a new phenomenon. I think it can happen to any society. Its a result of human nature.
It happens to every state and society that goes that far to the right, be it the Rwandans, white South Africans, the French in Algeria, the Italians under Mussolini.
And given history and the implosion of those states, I have little reason to believe Israel wont share a similar fate.

 

I think this thread has started in the right direction. We're having a genuine exchange of thoughts and ideas, without getting too emotional about it.

 

Sorry dude, you're very wrong.
It's almost an insult.
Read carefully what I wrote.
You are exactly doing what I wrote the bubble club members would call me.
I especially point to the difference of the new and old one.
It's exactly that what you again don't grasp, what I wrote you won't grasp, because you're one of the bubble guys.

 

Your post simply is deflection from the issue, as nothing in your post confronts what I posted.