Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds II

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, Mar 5, 2024.

  1. Ahmadi8

    Ahmadi8 Member+

    Apr 14, 2005
    Bahrain
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    What did/does Hamas gain from Isreal's isolation?
     
  2. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hamas' leadership gains funding from the Petro States for the proxy way it conducts on their behalf

    Palestinians gain nothing
     
  3. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hamas’ stated goal is the eradication of Israel. Isolation on the world stage is a helpful step toward that goal.
     
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  4. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    Plus they can say "look, our actions/soldiers made Israel crumble economically and politically"
     
  5. Ahmadi8

    Ahmadi8 Member+

    Apr 14, 2005
    Bahrain
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    Even at the cost of their own eradication? Doesn't seem logical.
     
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  6. Ahmadi8

    Ahmadi8 Member+

    Apr 14, 2005
    Bahrain
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    I haven't seen one real report explaining Isreal's economy being affected at all by this war.

    Similarly when it comes to politically, you have a bunch of condemnation that amounts to nothing as no signicant sanctions are placed.
     
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  7. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Assuming they’re actually being eradicated. It obviously hasn’t happened yet.

    But I’m just guessing based on the publicly available information. What do you think Hamas’ goal is in continuing to fight and hold hostages (assuming they’re still alive)?
     
  8. Ahmadi8

    Ahmadi8 Member+

    Apr 14, 2005
    Bahrain
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    Probably to be used as part of a favorable deal that benefits them somehow.

    They thought getting hostages gives them a better bargaining chip. They were very wrong.
     
  9. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/a...rael's,forecasts, released in early September.

    With each passing month, Israel's economy is approaching stagnation, if not recession, as the risks of regional conflagration intensify. Growth fell from 6.5% in 2022 to 2% in 2023, and was expected to fall to 1.1% over 2024 as a whole, according to the government's latest forecasts, released in early September. This figure is likely to be revised downward again, depending on the duration of the conflict in southern Lebanon, the scale of destruction and the number of reservists recalled to the armed forces.

    The war had an almost immediate effect on the workforce. The suspension of work permits granted to Palestinians and the departure of migrant workers after October 7 caused the proportion of foreigners in the workforce to plummet from 6.7% to 3.5%, interrupting work at many construction sites – up to 80% of them in the country have come to a halt.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...pprove-austerity-budget-amid-wars-2024-10-31/
    The wars in Gaza and Lebanon have cost Israeli coffers tens of billions of shekels on spending for defence - equipment and in manpower after hundreds of thousands of citizens were called into reserve duty - and in compensation for those impacted.

    "Our security also depends on the economy. We cannot have a strong military if we have no way of financing it," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said at the outset of the cabinet meeting before the budget vote, which could run into the night.
    "There is no economy without restrictions. If you give to one place, you unfortunately need to take from another," he said.
    Israel's economy has taken a hit since the Oct. 7, 2023 attack by Palestinian Hamas militants. There has been zero growth but supply issues have pushed up inflation, and the cost of living for Israelis - already emotionally drained by the more than one-year war - has soared.
     
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  10. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    First, you should research cases where the US refused to honor extradition requests - I guess you'll do more mental gymnastics to explain how this is in accordance to the rule of law...don't bother - exceptionalism, right?

    The Liberal government goal was to reverse what their Conservatives predecessors did by deteriorating the relationship with Chine and pursue "diversification" for its exports to lower their dependence on the US. The Liberals were already allowing Canadian Telecoms to acquire 5G techs while resisting the US calls to ban Huawei.

    Then came the arrest of Huawei's CFO in 2018 which caused a significant deterioration in Canada-China relations.China responded
    • by arresting two Canadian citizens on charges of espionage
    • impoing restrictions on Canadian exports causing financial impacts on Canadian farmers and businesses.
    Interestingly enough, U.S. businesses and agricultural sectors saw some gains from the Canada-China tension which prompted the U.S. to make adjustments to its import strategies leading to an increase of U.S. exports to China

    You wouldn't know that but Meng's arrest case did caused debate in Canada about balancing economic relations with China against alliance obligations with the United States. This isn't a conspiracy when media and politicians discuss and debate this very topic.

    Then came 2021, where Meng reached a prosecution agreement with U.S. authorities where she did not admit guilt but acknowledged some aspects of the government's allegations. The deal allowed her to return to China after nearly three years of house arrest in Canada. All this for over 3 years for that...

    The relationship had deteriorated to the point where this lead to Canada's 2022 decision to ban Huawei and ZTE from its 5G network infrastructure and ended their diversification strategy to be less reliant on the US.

    This was cute 2 years when we didn't know what would happen - in hindsight, Europe tanked their economies by severing their access to cheap energy that made them competitive and folding100% back with the US ending any movements or initiatives of a German-French led "independent" Europe acting as its own pole of influence outside the US. In the end, they are importing Russian energy anyways through India who became Russia's #1 importer at a premium - since US energy is even more expensive lol. Now that they aren't competitive and the US even passed the Inflation Reduction Act that contributed to de-industrialize Europe, something Euro leaders openly pointing out that the US was profiting from all of this.

    Not that I care about Europe, they get no sympathy for me and they were dumb enough to throw themselves under the bus. If anything, I'm cheering this genius move "well played Merica!"

    Stop drinking your own cool-aid

    The US support around 74% of the world’s dictatorships with military aid, financial assistance, or weapons. As of 2020, of the 57 countries classified as undemocratic, 42 received various forms of support from the U.S. Support ranges from arms sales to military training, often to further geopolitical interests rather than directly promoting democracy.

    A relationship with a disproportionately one-sided balance of power is often described as an asymmetric relationship. In geopolitics, it's called a hegemonic or patron-client relationship, where a stronger state (patron) extends influence or support to a weaker one (client) that, in turn, aligns its interests with those of the patron.

    My bad for using the term "vassal" - I should have said "client-state" - satisfied?
     
  11. Raumdeuter

    Raumdeuter Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    Texas
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
     
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  12. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess X number of virgins balances the scale, but when you've been conditioned to hate another group to the point of their eradication, self-preservation isn't necessary
     
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  13. Raumdeuter

    Raumdeuter Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    Texas
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
     
  14. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    Since there are some posters that still believe in unicorns and that Israel has been rejecting more ceasefires. I think this is the 3rd one I counted in the last month.
    US says Hamas rejected Egyptian proposal for brief Gaza ceasefire

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...d-egyptian-proposal-for-brief-gaza-ceasefire/

    Hamas has rejected a proposal for a short-term ceasefire and hostage release deal, the State Department says.

    The revelation is made in a US readout issued on Secretary of State Antony Blinken’s Sunday call with Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelatty.

    Blinken “noted that Hamas has once again refused to release even a limited number of hostages to secure a ceasefire and relief for the people of Gaza,” the US readout says.

    Egypt had put forth a proposal that would have begun with an initial 48-hour ceasefire during which Hamas would have prepared for the release of four Israeli hostages over the next 10 days, two Arab diplomats told The Times of Israel.

    The four hostages were to fall under the so-called humanitarian category, meaning they were to be either women, elderly, or sick.

    In exchange, Israel was to release roughly 100 Palestinian security prisoners, the diplomats said.

    During the 12-day deal, Israel and Hamas would have held talks about a more long-lasting ceasefire.
     
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  15. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
  16. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
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  17. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    If the former guy wins today's election, I fear for the future of both countries
     
  18. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    All b/c of the ********ing orthodox votes.
     
  19. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bibi is very happy today.
     
  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Something tells me the unified reich guy won't turn out to be great for the jewish people
     
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  22. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    De Gaulle and Chirac were both right.
    All this had detrimental effects on the short term that proved beneficial on the long term.
     
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  23. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Let him enjoy it - while he can.

    Trump has promised to betray every American ally, except Israel. The idea of him going "no, Israel, you're different and special. I've got your back and I'll take hits for you" is for the birds.

    Trump's one and only constant is that life is a struggle for dominance and that partnership is for suckers: if I'm not screwing you, you're screwing me.

    Israel is strong and powerful and dominant and for him any cruelty involved is an outright bonus, so he likes Israel and Bibi but once Israel starts to cost him, he won't hesitate to pull the plug.
     
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  24. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    In what way will Israel cost him?
     
  25. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Although Jews voted overwhelmingly for Kamala, I know a number of people drifted in the opposite direction because of the campaign rhetoric he was spewing. As my rabbi reminded everyone in her Yom Kippur sermon, it wasn't that long ago that a goofy guy rose to become a genocidal dictator because people were only too willing to believe his lies. Shocking to see it happen again, within the lifetime of some who went through it the last time.
     
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