Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds II

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, Mar 5, 2024.

  1. ElNaranja

    ElNaranja Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 16, 2017
    Can't wait to see seal team 6 bust them out of jail. That'd just be...cherry on top of this whole mess.
     
  2. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    Why would anyone send in seal team 6 to do the rescue?

    Everyone knows the best way to rescue captives is to blow up the whole neighbourhood.
     
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  3. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    That is a massive development.

    Link from the ICC: https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statem...-applications-arrest-warrants-situation-state

    They seek arrest warrants for Sinwar, Haniyeh, and the head of Al-Qassam.

    More importantly, they also seek arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant. Which is a much bigger deal.
     
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  4. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
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    Real Madrid
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    Palestine
    Both israelis and Hamas complaining about the application, which indicates it is a good application. Lets see if the warrants are issued - israel already lobbying its allies to get it defeated.
     
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  5. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Nat'l Team:
    Romania
    Is it though?

    Mr Khan accused the Hamas leaders of having committed crimes including extermination, murder, hostage taking, rape and sexual violence, and torture.

    Does Mr Khan know that didn't happen and there is 0 proof
     
  6. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
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    Real Madrid
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    Palestine
    I have read the application, and other people’s arguments in this thread. I suggest you do likewise.

    (I appreciate your brain is mostly made up of bone so reading the arguments might not help you understand the topic in any event).
     
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  7. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
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    FC Steaua Bucuresti
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    #3682 waitforit, May 20, 2024
    Last edited: May 20, 2024
    And your argument was that HAMAS did not rape. Tell me as you seem to avoid the frigging question. DID HAMAS RAPE?

    You do not have actual arguments. You just say things until proven otherwise at which point you move on and avoid direct question on the BS you said and the people calling your bullshit and deflect with quips that in your head sound funny.

    PS you are so predictable

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/hamas-attacks-israel-responds.2127934/page-463#post-42006152

    Lets not forget @thedukeofsoccer who is holding your hand regarding the whole HAMAS is not capable of rape

    For your next trick you will say it does not matter the Gaza "Health" Ministry lied about the number of the dead while you argued they aren't lying

     
  8. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
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    Real Madrid
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    Palestine
    #3683 Umar, May 20, 2024
    Last edited: May 20, 2024
    Where?

    “No evidence of rape” is not “evidence that rape did not happen”. This is a very basic concept that I would hope someone above the age of ten would be able to understand.

    False claims of rape and sexual violence (which the israeli side demonstrably did - for example using pictures of rapes by ISIS against Kurds and claiming they were from October 7, or claiming that there was a pregnant woman whose womb was opened and her baby foetus stabbed to death) do not mean that all other allegations are not credible. What needs to happen for an allegation to be taken seriously is for it to be tested by independent parties. The ICC is one such party and I support them looking into this.

    I think what you’ll find is that the prosecutor:
    - believes that there are grounds to believe that there may have been rape and sexual assault on captives whilst they were held prisoner after the attacks (I suspect this is due to the evidence of Amit Soussana around March 2024, who I find to be credible, and not the accounts of anonymous “Witness S” aka “Sapir”, or special forces soldier “Raz Cohen”, both who claimed to witness the attacks and both of whose statements I do not think are credible).
    - is still investigating reports of sexual assault on October 7 itself and has not made a determination on that point but has asked anyone with relevant information to contact his office to submit information.

    The statement can be read here:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx88l499vero

    Why don’t you read the prosecutors statement and explain to me where his points diverge from mine. Try to avoid using Microsoft paint when you respond this time.
     
  9. teammellieIRANfan

    Feb 28, 2009
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Dont know how significant these ICC arrest warrants are on Netanyahu and Gallant. Which country is going to enforce them, in the event that those two travel outside Israel?

    Seems like a symbolic move to be brutally frank.
     
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  10. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
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    FC Steaua Bucuresti
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    #3685 waitforit, May 20, 2024
    Last edited: May 20, 2024
    It starts here and it goes and goes from there. Have fun. 3 pages of you saying nope not possible

    Not but giving 2 example of Israeli lies and saying "similarly with the rapes" is you saying rape is another Israeli lie

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/hamas-attacks-israel-responds.2127934/page-399#post-41944883

    You gave 2 example of Israeli lies: beheading babies and the scorching claims and this is your 3rd example of a lie

    And again answer the damn question

    DID HAMAS RAPE?
     
  11. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    Real Madrid
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    Palestine
    #3686 Umar, May 20, 2024
    Last edited: May 20, 2024
    I don’t know. Do you? When and where were the rapes that you are talking about?

    There are no credible reports that I have seen from the October 7 attacks themselves. If you have evidence aside from that by Sapir, Raz Cohen and the Zaka officials, feel free to point me to it and I will let you know if I find the assertions credible or not. I have already explained why I think Sapir, Cohen and Zaka are not credible.

    I suspect that Amit Susanna was sexually assaulted and or raped as I have read her testimony and I think she is credible. So yes, I think there is a prima facie case there for rape.
     
  12. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
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    #3687 waitforit, May 20, 2024
    Last edited: May 20, 2024
    Yes. This sh1t is easy. 100% HAMAS raped. They would the only people in history to not do it.

    The same way I know Gaza Health Authorities deliberately lied about the number of dead which again will be proven in the future. I am sure your explanation then will be again you deflecting

    HAMAS themselves could say yup we did and you will still say still not credible as HAMAS are liars. So excuse me if i give less than 2 sh1ts of things you find credible or not

    There is no proof credible enough for Flat Earthers .... that does not make Flat Earthers right
     
  13. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    Real Madrid
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    Palestine
    Let me make it easy for you. Here is a summary of the allegations, you tell me if you find the allegations by Sapir, Cohen and anyone related to Zaka to be credible, and you tell me if you think the NYT report involving Schwartz stands up to scrutiny:


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screams_Without_Words
     
  14. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
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    Real Madrid
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    So I answered your direct question. Here’s a direct question for you.

    Did the israelis spread any false claims about rape and sexual assault regarding the October 7 attacks?
     
  15. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
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    Romania
    You answered nothing.

    Is this bellow you directly answering a question?

    Congrats my dude for doing it again. Again this shit is easy.

    Is a terrorist organization capable of rape or not? You seem to think it is very complicated question and demand 4k video as proof.

    Yes. Next question.
     
  16. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    Real Madrid
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    Any organisation or human is capable of rape.

    That doesn’t mean it did or didn’t happen.

    I am capable of murder, and you are capable of making a logical argument. Doesn’t mean we have ever done these things.

    What it does mean is that any allegation needs to be tested in order for it to be treated as credible.

    Some reading for you (it might be a little advanced for you, but do give it a try).

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)
     
  17. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I really didn't want to respond to you on this matter as I find your reluctance to accept the rape allegations despicable, but do yourself a favor and listen to this.
    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...-sheryl-sandberg/id1539292794?i=1000655130367
     
  18. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Nat'l Team:
    Romania
    Jesus f**k dude. I for one would have thought you would consider yourself above HAMAS. But apparently they are people just like you and me !!!

    And 2 this is you basically right now




    Can you prove Israel is deliberating attacking civilians?

    99% of the things you accuse and are sure IDF does do not pass the threshold of proof you demand of others.
     
  19. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    Balance of probabilities, yes very easy.

    Beyond reasonable doubt, yes in many circumstances (like the granny killed for making a wrong turn, or the multiple unarmed people killed holding white flags, including their own civilians) but more difficult to prove in all cases.

    Beyond all doubt by any party, no matter how unreasonable? No, not possible.
     
  20. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every single army in the history of the world has raped when they occupy foreign territory. It's what happens when you take young men, give them weapons, tell them the enemy is subhuman and let them loose. Armies with more discipline rape less, but they still rape. The US in Iraq did sex things to prisoners at Abu Ghraib and took pictures. Untrained / undisciplined armies rape more. See Russia in Ukraine with widespread claims of rape.

    I have zero doubt that IDF soldiers have done the occasional rape, but I have even less doubt that Hamas militants, expecting to die on October 7, did a bunch of rape. To expect otherwise is contrary to the history of humanity. And demanding court-level "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" for atrocities that occur in a war zone is ridiculous.
     
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  21. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Nat'l Team:
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    Good. Apply the same effing logic regarding HAMAS

    Like I said 99% of the things you accuse and are sure IDF does do not pass the threshold of proof you demand of others.
     
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  22. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
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    Real Madrid
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    Palestine
    I have.

    eg

    Balance of probabilities, Amit Soussana is telling the truth.

    Balance of probabilities, “Sapir” is not telling the truth.

    All I have asked for is (1) credible allegations, and (2) those credible allegations to be tested by an independent third party.

    Credible doesn’t even mean “on balance of probabilities”, never mind allegations that are “beyond all reasonable doubt”.
     
  23. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
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    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    #3698 Umar, May 20, 2024
    Last edited: May 20, 2024
    Good thing I’m not asking you to do that, then, isn’t it?

    Bring something credible that can be tested by an independent third party.

    Amit Soussana did that, I have no reservations in believing that her allegation is credible.

    The allegations by the Zaka people of babies being cut out of mothers wombs, or Sapir’s claims of breasts being sliced off during gang rapes? I apply the Sagan standard to that.
     
  24. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
     
  25. chad

    chad BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Too bad Hamas doesn’t give a shit about Palestinians.
     
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