Halliburton overcharging the Pentagon

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by obie, Dec 12, 2003.

  1. obie

    obie New Member

    Nov 18, 1998
    NY, NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "You're Going To Pay That Money Back, Mister!"

    You see, this is what I'm talking about when I say that I love capitalism but hate how white-collar criminals are treated like they did nothing wrong. Whoever signed the contract should be sent to maximum-security prison and gang-raped daily, not told by our Fearless Leader that the government expects reimbursement.

    Steal $6,100 from a gas station: 8 to 10 years.
    Steal $61 million from taxpayers: a stern talking-to from the President.

    Totally insane.
     
  2. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Re: "You're Going To Pay That Money Back, Mister!"

    And they get to keep their contract, apparently.
     
  3. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    The whole thing is disgusting.

    I know companies make money from war, but Halliburton has gone beyond the pale.
     
  4. He's In Fashion

    Jan 7, 2000
    Littlefun, CO, US
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The collective tit is extremely sore... what will it take to rid us of the suckers?
     
  5. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    Voting the bastards out next November.
     
  6. DoctorJones24

    DoctorJones24 Member

    Aug 26, 1999
    OH
    How many times is this that the alternative/liberal press has beaten the national press to a story by about 6 months?

    Niger uraniun lie
    Aluminum tubes lie
    Haliburton graft
    ....

    This is OLD news to anyone paying attention.
     
  7. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    Here is the ironic part. KBR will be able to fully document that it paid whatever it says it paid for gas. But now the government will have to pay the auditor to document it. In other words, all this BS about gas will end up costing the tax payers even more money.
     
  8. JeffS

    JeffS New Member

    Oct 15, 2001
    Cameron Park, CA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anybody with a brain and two eyes can tell beyond any shadow of a doubt what the Bushies' true motivation for the Iraq war was.

    Anyone who does not accept the fact that they are lining their own pockets and the pockets of their wealthy donors, and it has nothing to do with getting Saddam or national security, needs to have their head examined.

    Either that, or they are partisan Republicans beyond hope.

    So how are things going in Afghanistan? How's the pursuit of Al Qaida going? Lousy.

    Were there any WMD, as was said by the Bushies? Nope.

    What connection did Saddam have with Al Qaida? Zilch

    So how are Halliburtons profits? Spectacular.

    Is Cheney still receiving salary and bonus' from Halliburton? You bet.

    Did Halliburton and other defense and oil contractors, who are benefiting from the Iraq war, donate to the Bush campaign? Of course.

    Is this what Ike was talking about when he said "beware the military industrial complex"? Absolutely.

    Case closed.

    For those who haven't already, WAKE UP!!!
     
  9. 655321

    655321 New Member

    Jul 21, 2002
    The Mission, SF
    Seriously, there should be near-rioting in the streets right now. The American public is so conditioned to corporate crime, that we now take it with a shrug of the shoulders and basically ignore it. They should find out the person who's in charge and he should be put in prison for a long, long time. Period.
     
  10. Mefisto

    Mefisto Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    Århus, Denmark
    Another argument for letting German and french companies in on the iraqi contracts- They wont screw the american taxpayer half as bad.

    The blind support for Bush reminds me of an old german saying: Führer, befehl und wir folgen!
     
  11. Garcia

    Garcia Member

    Dec 14, 1999
    Castro Castro
    It seems getting gas for 10 cents a gallon and then selling it for over $2 is fair. We do it here in the USA, right? I would think that getting it to the USA is easier than getting it to Baghdad right about now.
     
  12. Nogra Rover

    Nogra Rover New Member

    Mar 30, 2000
    Bethesda, MD
    On a related note:

    On the Diane Rehm show today (a nationally syndicated NPR show), she said that she saw Cheney last night and said:

    "We're having a show on the Pentagon contracts Monday"

    Cheney: "what contracts?"

    Rehm: "the contracts in Iraq."

    Lynne Cheney: "you need to talk to Wolfowitz about that."


    A riot, if it wasn't so sad. I guess the undisclosed location is Lynne's warm, protective busom.
     
  13. striker

    striker Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    Re: "You're Going To Pay That Money Back, Mister!"

    For not charging enough???
     
  14. DoctorJones24

    DoctorJones24 Member

    Aug 26, 1999
    OH
    We'll call this the "nutshell" version of the story:

    "George W. Bush is preventing entire nations from bidding on contracts in Iraq so his campaign contributors can continue to overcharge the American taxpayers," Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean.
     
  15. Hard Karl

    Hard Karl New Member

    Sep 3, 2002
    WB05 Compound
    Yeah, I'd totally like to say I'm shocked and outraged by this but I'm totally not. Well, I'm pissed but I know there isn't a damn thing I can do about it save for not voting for Bush II again. But yeah, where there's a war there's a profiteer. I guess it is a consequence of no-bid contracts. I'm no business major but there's a few things about that idea that don't strike me as wonderful.
     
  16. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    From The Guardian:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1106270,00.html
     
  17. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Re: "You're Going To Pay That Money Back, Mister!"



    Where did I put that apples and oranges picture? To "steal" $6100 from a gas station, you will certainly use deadly violence or the threat of such.

    I don't mind getting tougher on white collar criminals, but it's not the same.
     
  18. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    Re: Re: "You're Going To Pay That Money Back, Mister!"

    I'll let everyone ponder -- waitaminnit, is it raining? And on your wedding day, too!
     
  19. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Re: Re: Re: "You're Going To Pay That Money Back, Mister!"

    LOL. Ok...

    I'm speaking in generalities here :D
     
  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: "You're Going To Pay That Money Back, Mister!"

    OK, someone already hit this, but damn, that's one juicy hanging curve....
     
  21. Footer Phooter

    Jul 23, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    I used to audit defense contracts, and this kind of crap goes on constantly. Maybe not to this scale, but there's both blatant and hidden bilking of the government all over the place. There should be a hell of a lot of outrage about this sort of thing, but there won't be. I'm guessing whoever signed this contract won't even be disciplined.
     
  22. Footer Phooter

    Jul 23, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    EDIT: The way these contracts should work is on a cost plus basis. That means the government reimburses Halliburton whatever it paid for the gas, plus a 3% (apprx) handling fee as well as a profit, which based on my expereince could be anywhere between 4 and 12 percent.
     
  23. riverplate

    riverplate Member+

    Jan 1, 2003
    Corona, Queens
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    This whole thing happened to be caught by a Pentagon review of the Halliburton contracts, which is exactly the kind of oversight that we should be applauding.

    Bush: "Their investigation will lay the facts out for everybody to see."

    So stop carting people off to jail.
     
  24. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    Finally, someone who knows how these things work.

    My bet is that it was an indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity cost plus contract. Hence, the only thing KBR needs to show is a receipt for $61 million dollars worth of gas. As long as they paid it, they get reimbursed. I tried to make that point a few weeks ago, when this first came into the media, but no one card to listen.

    I see on TV that moveon.org has a commercial accusing Bush of using a "no bid" contract. That's partially true. Here is the problem. First, there COULD be no other bidders. There are about six people that have the experience to administer a contract like "get the oil wells in Iraq up and running" and they ALL work for KBR. I know the hate-Bush crowd wants to make it seem like cronyism but the fact is no one else has the expertise. We have to take what they give us. About ten years ago, before the consolidation of the energy engineering industry, we could have had Brown and Root bid against MW Kellog bid against Halliburton. (I don’t remember there being a Halliburton 10 years ago but anyway) In the last ten years as Tenneco, Halliburton, Bectel and Flour have bought out the smaller engineering companies, there is little competition. They each specialize in a different industry. KBR's specialization is oil pumping and distribution.

    If you think that just the tax payers suffer from this arrangement, that's not true. The pharmaceutical industry also suffers from this problem. There are two companies that can deliver a plant costing more than 500 million.

    The second problem is that a no-bid contract is perfectly legal. Government tries to contract things all the time that can only be done by one company. Ever try to commercialize windmills? How many companies can do that? IIRC, it's two.

    The only savior that the large industrial companies have from being ripped off by the engineering/construction companies is tough contract administration. The corporate guys MUST be able to look over the engineering company's shoulder. THAT is the problem here. Not that KBR paid $61 million for gas but that the incompetents in government contract administration can't properly look over KBR's shoulder.

    The cynical thing is that everyone who deals with this sort of thing knows how it works, especially the Democrats yelling at Bush. Who wrote the last contracting law? Democrats. Who makes it impossible for the government to hire and fire at will? Democrats.
     

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