half raised flags

Discussion in 'Referee' started by andylovesoccer, Jun 9, 2003.

  1. andylovesoccer

    Sep 2, 2000
    Asheville, NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have noticed the last couple of weeks that a few of the linesmen in my adult league consistently start to raise their flag, 1/3 to 1/2 way up, then suddenly put it back down. This makes it very tough on the players, especially on offside calls. I feel, personally, that it makes you look very indecisive and is somewhat unprofessional. I know if I was in the center and my ARs were doing this, it would distract me. Any thoughts?
     
  2. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    From my experience, you can sometimes develop a "reflex" of putting the flag up when A, B, and C start occuring. It almost is instinctual that the flag should go up! Unfortunately, all it takes is one time where A, B, and C occur and yet the flag should not go up to make you think twice. Your mind processes the scenario but your flag starts going up before reaching the conclusion the flag doesn't need to go up. Hence the immediate dropping and sheepish grin in hopes nobody noticed :)

    Another time you see this happening is when both the CR and AR see a foul occur. The AR goes to put the flag up in anticipation of the CR blowing the whistle simultaneously, only to have the CR call for Advantage. Consequently, the AR immediately drops the flag back down and gets back into position.

    Finally, sometimes you expect involvement from an offside position and begin to flag the infringement only to have a defender at the last minute get a head or foot on the ball and clear it away. This is why you always hear instructors and assessors saying, "Wait for the actual involvement!" It's better to hesitate in putting the flag up and making 100% sure there will be a need for it than to make the quick and decisive, but incorrect, call.
     
  3. AAGunner3

    AAGunner3 Member

    Feb 14, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're right...

    It does look indecisive. Are they inexeperienced and lack the ability to control their signal until they are sure that something happened? Is it all the time or just occasionally? It happens to all of us every now and then I'd expect. You ever call an offsides early only to have the defense intercept the pass and take off down the field, but your CR called your signal. Which would you rather have?

    Tough on the players? Once again, players should play until the whistle blows, not a signal by the AR.
     
  4. andylovesoccer

    Sep 2, 2000
    Asheville, NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed 100%. But being an old man playing in a young man's league, I look for any opportunity not to have to sprint down an attacking player. ;)

    It has happened fairly frequently, and is something that I hadn't noticed before. It might just be a couple of linesmen that are doing it, they just happened to be doing my games. I was always told to "make your call with authority." That doesn't seem very authoritative to me. I asked the CR if it was something he could mention in his pre-game speech with his ARs. He gave me a look like, "Who the hell do you think you are?"

    It's actually pretty interesting being a certified referee that still plays. The refs usually think I am just some stupid player that doesn't know what he is talking about. Boy are they surprised when I start throwing out "law #s".
     
  5. Scott Zawadzki

    Feb 18, 1999
    Midlothian, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Half raised flags????? There's gotta be a Viagra joke that can be added to this thread! Anybody?

    Scott
     
  6. ProfZodiac

    ProfZodiac Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Paging Ed Rae...

    Prof
     
  7. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Andy, players giving advice to referees doesn't work. I'm sure you don't want them telling you where to play. :)

    It's easier to adapt than to train someone else.

    This comes as much from being married for forever, and raising 4 kids as it does from being a player dealing with uncertain refs.
     
  8. andylovesoccer

    Sep 2, 2000
    Asheville, NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here you have hit on the downside of being a player who referees, or vice versa. You sometimes forget that you are dressed in a players uniform, and the ref you are addressing has no idea what your background is. And I didn't really tell him what to do, as much as ask him a favor. But the situation in the ref's eyes is still the same.
     
  9. ProfZodiac

    ProfZodiac Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've encountered that situation. I've been reffing for 6 years, and playing for 4 of them. Usually it just meant I was the first to tell them to STFU when they started to mouth off. And, I knew that you can't be offside in your own half, which came in very handy...

    Prof
     
  10. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At one clinic Herb Silva said he wants to make a set of socks and flags with velcro on them. Stick the flag to the socks so that ARs have to work to raise it, thereby slowing them down.

    My pregame instruction is, better late and right on the offside and out-of-play flag.
     
  11. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you surprised when they toss you? ;)

    -nat (referee and player - dr. jekyll and mr. hyde)
     
  12. andylovesoccer

    Sep 2, 2000
    Asheville, NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Amazingly enough, in spite of my loud, but very respectful mouth, I have not been sent off of the field by a referee in about 12 years.

    I did have an instance in an indoor game where I was shown a red card, but the ref allowed me to continue playing (???). I had a guy on top of me who wouldn't get off. After I yelled for him to get off three times he started digging his elbow into my spine, so I used a wondeful wrestling move I learned in eighth grade to extricate myself. We were both shown red cards, but the ref said he was only trying to get me off the field for a cooling down period and allowed me back on the field at the beginning of the next period. Obviously, he was very inexperienced and pretty intimidated by the whole situation.
     
  13. AAGunner3

    AAGunner3 Member

    Feb 14, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: referees who play

    Too many coaches lack the knowledge of the details of the rules and therefore the players don't fully understand the rules.

    One of the biggest advantages to completely (?better than your typical player?) understanding the rules is that you, as an attacker, know the limits of the offsides rule and a smart one will use that to their advantage in beating defenses.

    I'm slow, so when I'm playing, I make full use of the no offsides in your half and timing my runs perfectly. In my opinion, there is little excuse for a good attacker being called offsides. Just laziness or inattention or ignorance.

    Same goes for defending the attacker. If I see a guy building up a head of steam in his half and approaching the halfline- I know I better get my motor running or be beat deep. And I play the whistle.
     
  14. law5guy

    law5guy Member

    Jun 26, 2001
    It wasn't the flag that has half raised... it was the POLE! ;-)
     
  15. andylovesoccer

    Sep 2, 2000
    Asheville, NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel the same way. It kills me to see professionals, players like Jeff Cunningham, get called for four or five offside penalties every time they play(except when they play DC of course ;) ). I can understand getting caught a couple of times, trying to find out exactly where the "line" is, in the ARs opinion, but most times I just see it as not paying attention. I guess you can get away with it if those couple of times you don't get caught end up in a goal.
     

Share This Page