Post-match: Haiti

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by thedukeofsoccer, Jun 22, 2025.

  1. imasyko

    imasyko Member+

    May 16, 2002
    Spring City, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The high (low) point for me was the 2nd half free kick taken 7-8 yards inside Haiti's half which featured 5 back passes eventually going to Freese, when no one was under any pressure! I was screaming at the TV.

    Thankfully, soon after that Luna came on and we started getting some movement up top which led to the GW goal. And yeah, I don't understand tactics all that well, and so won't jump in to criticize this or that player, but no team can play as lame offensively as we did for most of the game and consistently win at any level. If this was due to Poch tactics, we got problems...
     
  2. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    We heard you!
     
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  3. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the reason all these tests - the B team - the tactics - the heat - the humidity ... is very important for us - is to find out "who will be brave" ... with every back pass LDLT makes - it just shows that some players are afraid to risk what they have for something more ... Between Aaronson's lack of size, and LDLTs backpassing, and Cardoso's backing off - the only way you find out is who is desperate to take their game to the next level is to put them in the crucible - the reality is that some are able and some are not. Richards, Tillman, Luna, Freeman and others (Arfsten except when he was not afraid to drive forward) ... etc. Tyler certainly isn't afraid to get stuck in and be fearless (just don't get a red please). Not sure yet about Damien - but certainly Agman is learning that he can pound on the defenders and get them off their game ... with him and Alex Freeman - you can't coach size or speed - and once you realize it - you must use it - how to size up your opponent and blow right by them (the fear in a defenders eyes when they see Mbappe coming at them) or drive them to the turf on the way by - is something the men will need to demonstrate to get by Costa Rica and beyond. We shall see. Be brave. That is the only way you find your limit. As Saudi Arabia showed us - this is not just a game - it is a fight.
     
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  4. BTFOOM

    BTFOOM Member+

    Apr 5, 2004
    MD, USA
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Couldn't agree more. I thought the exact same thing wrt to the cards. She looked like a deer in the headlights and was in way over her head.
     
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  5. BTFOOM

    BTFOOM Member+

    Apr 5, 2004
    MD, USA
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Well, if you ignore the horrible backpass to Freese on the goal. Plus, almost all of his passes are square or backwards (though he wasn't the only one doing so last night).
     
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  6. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Ream is great (historically speaking) but there is always a "sell by" date and perhaps Tim's is approaching. He did come back from Fulham and they saw it coming as well.

    Tim has an amazing left foot - but he has pace limitations and that was a mistake to pass that ball back to Freese there ... he just should have turned and sent it up the line or OOB.
     
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  7. NYdog

    NYdog Member+

    United States
    Nov 6, 2024
    United States
    Freese or Turner
     
  8. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    It's Ream's fault Freese decides to one-time a pass with his weak foot into coverage, instead of scanning before the pass to see the right side was open, taking the ball on his good foot and then passing to the right?
     
  9. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Richards had this in his bag when he played in Germany and for the U20's but it disappeared in England. Maybe he was too scared to make a mistake and is slowly getting that confidence back. Heck I remember awhile back thinking his passing was Brooks level.
     
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  10. EDH Highlander

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Dec 19, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The hate Pat takes in certain USMNT "fan" circles is crazy.

    Here are the stats:

    Pat - 5 goals in 9 games
    Flo - 5 goals in 17 games
    Pepi - 13 goals in 33 games
    Sargent - 5 goals in 28 games

    Mostly all against the same meager competition.

    Of course Pat doesn't look pretty most of the time out there - but he is like a wrecking ball that punishes the defense over time. IMO you have to look at him differently.

    Tillman was amazing yesterday. Dude is cementing himself in the starting "A team" lineup.

    Bummed we have to wait a week for the next game. LFG!!!
     
  11. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Here are the stats:

    Ferreira - 15 goals in 23 games.

    Should we elect him Emperor?

    The reasoning some people use....
     
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  12. BMWDeuce

    BMWDeuce Member

    AC Milan
    United States
    Aug 15, 2024
    Pat's first touch and tendency to fall over easily will put a ceiling on his national team career. I do think he does better than given credit for, but better teams will punish him for that touch a lot sooner. But I don't think it's farfetched to say he does have a role with the team... especially against tired defenses when he can just be a bowling ball. Not saying that's my first choice, but I've seen worse output from 9s.
     
  13. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    We know that such plays have become a feature of Turner's game. Unclear whether it's just a minor bug for Freese or not. I think he'll be okay.
     
  14. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Context matters, but Josh isn't producing against anyone, & when he did long ago (6 yrs, lol) it was against Cuba. Even what little production he has is as fake as anyone. Faker than Ferreira's.

    At a point, pedigree doesn't matter, but even in his case it's the freaking Championship. I'd have a similar strategy w/ him and Big Pat - let them get better away from here. But at least Big Pat's relatively knew, produces some, & is a physical presence.
     
  15. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    There is so much absurd cope with Agyemang but I imagine people might have abandoned entirely if he hadn't suddenly gotten a late goal. He's big, he takes up space, he pulls defenders, he requires double teams: and he ends 50,000 attacks per game with giveaways. He's a total disaster, period. I more than recognize what his physicality and power offer, but it is completely denuded by his turnovers, his constant, horrendous turnovers, and ghastly attack wrecking touch.

    The idea that he's in contention at all for Striker #3 is patently absurd. I really can't believe the takes I'm seeing on here because of a goal, and a ball that bounced off of him an in. It's beyond absurd. I have no idea what Poch is thinking, I guess Wright is obviously not it, and Downs has been sick, and White definitely aint it, but my god man. It's so god awful. A lot of cope. Ooh, he offers a different look....yeah, of attacks being fumbled away before they start dozens of times a game. Come on people, it's ridiculous. Give a donkey enough touches in the box, ball go in occasionally, full stop.
     
  16. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    one thought .... this team stinks and is an embarrassment to the flag. Lets see what
    happens next
     
  17. BTFOOM

    BTFOOM Member+

    Apr 5, 2004
    MD, USA
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    I didn't say it was all Ream's fault, I said that he made a particularly poor back pass to Freese.
     
  18. metnostar

    metnostar Member

    Jun 28, 2001
    We have been cursed with an incredible sequence of injuries. At this rate, Agyemang and Downs will both be out of action by next summer. All of our other international level strikers have been struck down by such long-term afflictions that there’s some question if they will be able to return at full strength. we just need to see who is still standing next June.
     
  19. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I'll start with my take on our offensive inadequacy.

    In our offense, unless it is off a turnover, it all starts in the back and this is what that looks like to me:
    • the back four with Adams slightly advanced under little to no pressure
    • The back four passes the ball from side to side.
    • While the back four is passing the ball from side to side, the rest of the team is mostly static and the opposition does not press but the lack of movement does not create any openings or gaps further up field.
    • After a while, the ball finds a bit of space on a wing leading to a combination down the line near the final 1/3 where we meet defensive pressure.
    • The ball moves centrally, then back to the keeper where we restart the cycle.
    A good passing game (which we do not have) depends upon the passer, movement and the receiver(s). The easiest and best way to improve a passing game like ours isn't to improve the passer (although that is a great option if available), but to improve the movement off the ball. Movement opens up passing lanes, moves the defense and opens gaps. Back passing is not bad per se. Back passing all the time, as the first option for everything is bad.

    So, it McGlynn, Luna, Tolkin, Arfsten's fault that their passing numbers aren't very good? Obviously, they are part of the equation and need to share the blame but those not on the ball (everyone else) has to do their part. I probably didn't watch as closely as many of you but one of the things that I felt helped Sullivan's effectiveness in the game was the fact that he wasn't always in the same place left to right.

    The only disadvantage to lateral movement in a team is that it definitely increases the difficulty coordinating and transitioning from offense to defense. It can make it harder on a defense. Obviously, if Sullivan on our left when we lose the ball, he is not going to be much help to Freeman if the opposition counters down our right but that is where communication comes in.

    Just like defensive shape is all about the team and communion, offensive movement is also about the team and awareness of teammates. The difference is that defensive shape is all about maintaining structure, while offensive movement is all about disrupting and destroying structure.
     
  20. an1310

    an1310 Member+

    Jun 2, 2003
    Atlanta, GA
    Yes, the pass was poor. I'd put this 10% on Ream and 90% on Freese, and I say this as a GK who makes Keller's foot skills look like prime Ronaldinho. The poor backpass should have ended up in Row ZZZ for a throw, not a WPIOOTBGW highlight.
     
  21. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The main issue on Freese's misplay was he tried a high degree of difficulty one-time pass, not that he attempted to play it to a teammate per se. Same thing could have happened on a missed clearance. I feel like that critique is made too much. You load up there's not a lot of margin for error & you give the pressers a chance to close space to maybe block.

    The safest pass is a lateral pass to your own corner, provided you have a teammate open. Or even if you don't, & it's just played out to touch.
     
  22. imasyko

    imasyko Member+

    May 16, 2002
    Spring City, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is the extent of Downs' injury? Now he's out till next summer?
     
  23. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For a team that stinks they also became just the second US team ever to go 3-0-0 in a Gold Cup group stage.
     
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  24. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Tactics can certainly effect things, but there isn't a coach in the world that tells his players to just stand there and not move.

    Some of the backpassing and the such is on Pochettino's plan, in that it is pretty clear he values "control." I haven't watched the post game on this match, but it was the buzzword of the Saudi Arabia match with Poch and multiple players trotting out the word. It's clear there's a desire for possession and not turning the ball over willy nilly.

    However, if you watch the problem area in the second half -- and yeah, the free kick Tyler took that just went backwards -- you will see a frontline that isn't moving at all. We have a personnel weakness in that most of our defensive players aren't great passers, but you've got to get open to get an incisive pass. During that span, the issue was more on the front line.

    And there's just not a coach that is like, stand there with guys on you and in the passing lanes and do nothing. I don't know if guys were tired or just simply confused. It really shouldn't take a coaching staff to tell people to find open space or make a deep run against a high line, but I will say that forwards can get hesitant to make that run when it almost never gets delivered.

    There's also the issue that a team that has played little together is often looking in the wrong place or has their timing off on these things -- the nice run Malik would soon make where he was offside -- clearly he and Tyler did not have their timing on as Tyler was late.

    But soon after, we started seeing people make runs behind the defense and make runs towards the ball -- that sort of vertical movement not only opens up the player but can open up their teammates as defenders have to move lines together or risk getting isolated.

    But most of the time, if the team is static or there's slow passing or constant backpassing ... people want to put that on the tactics and no coach wants those things. But it's most often simply the players not doing what they need to. Sometimes there is a tactical direction that is causing it, but mostly it's things not working, not what they were told.
     
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  25. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I have been lukewarm on Pat, however after looking at his opposition he has been scoring against higher elo opponents. Venezuela and Canada were during the winter break so there is a bit of an asterisk but yeah, you certainly have a point.
     
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