Its not about the guns, its about the justice system. for example, "jail sentences". Criminals who steel cars and are sentenced to 6 months, normally just serve 6 weeks. Few aren't sentenced at all and just attend community service. If guns were legalized tomorrow, I bet crime would skyrocket in every major city. Before the banning of hand guns, hardly anyone owned one anyway.
jep, agree. Everyone knows about the british culture of drive-by shootings and gang fights. Isnt Liverpool a bit like Queens?
From the article: This is like when conservatives try to argue against a single payer health care plan. You point out that Canadians a) spend less on health care and b) have better health. That's about as straightforward as you can get, but that contradicts their free market orthodoxy, so they try to find eleventy-seven reasons why single payer is bad. They won't let little stuff like objective reality impinge on their fantasy. Britain has less guns, and less violence. I guess the conservative, gun lovers' argument is that Britain's rate of violence would be even lower if they had more guns. PS...I found the little elision of "except for rape and murder" wonderfully ironic. I'm gonna start using this every day. Except for losing to Germany, the US got further than England in the World Cup. Except for the first 5 minutes, the US drew Poland. Except for David Seaman's blunder, England beat Macedonia.
I think I read the report which compared crimes in London with New York, except it actually compared numbers within the whole of London with just manhattan, a rather less populous place. a lot of it is down to poor policing rather than a lack of the right to bear arms. I think the farmer who was put away for murder was done so because he shot the lad as he ran away, rather than in self-defence. That's hardly a great example to give to show how having guns would help as clearly he had a gun.
Dave, here's a tip, correlation doesn't equal causation. Reminds me of a Simpson's episode: Homer: "Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm." Lisa: "That's specious reasoning, Dad." Homer: "Thank you, dear." Lisa: "By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away." Homer: "Oh, how does it work?" Lisa: "It doesn't work." Homer: "Uh-huh." Lisa: "It's just a stupid rock." Homer: "Uh-huh." Lisa: "But I don't see any tigers around, do you?" Homer: "Lisa, I want to buy your rock." I think what is more significant however is that the trend points towards a convergence between the two countries, with the US having a falling murder rate and Britain's rising. http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/glance/tables/frmdth.htm
> Dave, here's a tip, correlation doesn't equal > causation. Yeah, but it should show that the causation theory protrayed in the article is doubtful. And I find it funny you used an example that makes fun of Cold War anti-Soviet military spending.
As Colin said, correlation does not equal causation. That same argument can be used against the entire article. A reduction in the US violent crime rate is due to... what? An increase in the violent crime rate in the UK is due to... what? Both due to guns? I highly, highly doubt it. The US has the highest per-capita murder rate among all industrialized countries in the world. Is it due to guns? I think in part, but not entirely and probably not in large part. Guns allow people to manifest other issues (like anger and jealousy) much more violently, but guns don't make people want to kill people. They just help the process along a lot more swiftly. Here's the deal that I would strike with the NRA and all other gun control advocates. I would allow unlimited gun purchases and concealed weapons IF the NRA would agree to: -- License requirements for all gun owners. You think you can handle a gun, prove it. By this I mean background checks for violent felony convictions and/or mental health issues PLUS proof that the potential owner can shoot straight. The license needs to be renewed every 3-4 years. Once you have your license, you can buy whatever you want. -- State-by-state gun registration, not unlike auto registration. I see this not as an attempt to keep track of every gun as much as an effort to ensure that the gun works properly and can be tracked back to a legitimate owner. I could start making guns tomorrow and sell them without ever proving that they actually work the way they should. This is very dangerous. -- Liability insurance carried for every gun. Your kid finds your gun in the closet and shoots a hole through your neighbor's window, the liability insurance would kick in. Again, EXACTLY like cars. The reason for this is to separate the legal, reasonable gun owners from the gun nuts who just want to stockpile. It also would reinforce the idea, long lost on many Americans, that guns aren't toys. -- An ammunition tax to pay for the licensing / gun safety check program.