Zinha does act very much like a Mexican. Quote by him "Mariachi over Samba any day". But no more Foreigners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah if you hear him speak, he doesn't speak spanish all weird like most Brazilians do. He speaks like a true mexican.
Gaitan is the best "10" in mexico, there is no comparison. Luis Perez is a distant very distant 2nd. If Gaitan is Mexican, we should be happy about it. I believe we should look for the best person for the job, if he happens to be be naturalized, who cares. The point is he's mexican now. You didn't here France bitchin' and complaining about who was or wasn't french when they won the world cup did you??? I guarantee you there are no 100% pure bred mexicans on the NT. Last I heard most of the Indians like to keep to themselves in the jungles.
Last I read, Gaitan has not recieved his naturalization papers, so he isnt Mexican. I cant believe you guys are talking about having him there when he even isnt a Mexican to begin with. Have you ever been to France and are you aware of the ethnic and racial tensions that country is facing with the immigratant coming in from the middle east and northern africa? Apparently you dont read too many papers. The french (the european) were upset when Senegal beat them. Senegal had over 90% of thier roster in the French league. Aztecs were not Mexican. Olmecs were not Mexican. Mayans were not Mexican. Peninsulares were not Mexican. They started being Mexican after we got our independence. Mexican is not a race nor a ethnicity, it is country. You are a fvcking idiot
LMvCP Your ignorance is the only thing that surpasses your stupidity. Who cares about french ethnic make up??? the point is they won the world cup with a sh!tload of naturalized players. We're talking soccer here. As far as your fatal attempt of a mediocre history lesson- I think you made everyone lose IQ points by what you typed on that one. Who are you to tell everyone else if they ere or aren't mexican. You really are a joke!!!
bopper, I'm just saying Mexico doesn't have a creative midfielder/"10" better than Gaitan at this point. I'm not trying to put anyone down, it just hasn't been demonstated since the days of Ramon Ramirez or when they had "Cabrito" playing in the middle about 98-01. As far as Gaitan being mexican, I'm not sure of that now. Someone at the beginning of this thread stated Gaitan and Franco were now mexican. Others say Gaitan has yet to receive his naturalization papers yet. Nonetheless, hypothetically speaking if he were , he could be the final piece to the puzzle. As far as me denouncing the talent pool in mexico, really I don't. I want the league to expand to 20 teams and limit foreigners to 5 on each team, so the majority of the players are always mexicans. I want 20 teams so I can see more of the younger players as starters. I'm excited to see young players like Padilla, Ochoa, Santana, Cacho, Marquez, Iniguez, etc... get a chance -but I would much rather see them starting and getting more minutes. As far as Goalkeepers and Defenders, mexico ranks up there with the best. Midfielders especially los laterales (Morales, Medina, Cabrito) y de contencion (Torrado) son buenisimos. Pero de delanteros y "10" nos falta un poquito. No lo digo para ofender, sino para reconocer nuestras debilidades y mejorar la seleccion nacional. Yo tambien tengo orgullo pero se reconocer.
The problem with plugging holes with naturalized players is that it'll never end. Your chance to see young bloods will come to end, regardless if there is 20 teams with even less foreigners. Which ever coach leads EL Tri will always go for the naturalized players that is more established, all the time. Leaving the Ochoas, Salcidos, etc. watching from the sidelines. If you're a young gun, you need someone to take a chance on you.
thin coming from you??? please And what happened the World Cup after? Naturalized players is a quick solution to a long term problem Go and rebuttle then? Show some facts, stats,, etc... anything Gaitan isnt a Mexican. He doesnt have papers. SO yes, I can say he isnt a Mexican you are a mental midget. You can not debate with me because i will make you look like the fvcking idiot that you already are.. do us a favor... kill yourself
Did it ever occur to you to play a different system that exploits and focuses on not having a 10? Not to many teams have it. The teams that dont have that player overcome, adapt, and improvise. Isnt that what coaching is all about? He is not Mexican. At least not yet. I thought Zinha was the last piece of the puzzle. Isnt that what La Volpe and all those who were in favor kept on debating about? The new rules came out this week for the upcoming year (2005-2006) and i have not read them. But if they are anything like the ones from last year.. Each team could have 6 foreigners on the roster. Only 5 could suit up and play. And each team was allowed one naturalized player. I dont believe that more playing time yields more productivity. In theory, yes. But here we have Chivas, a team that plays 100% of the time with Mexicans. Chivas has yet to produce a dominant forward or midfielder for the national team in the past 30 years. Pumas, Cruz Azul, America who suit up foreign players and have to compete with foreign players have produced most of those positions. I think having good foreign players in the league is good for competition. You see those young players that really want it go for it. HOWEVER, that effect wont hold true on the national team for 2 reasons, 1) it is a quick solution to a long term problem, 2) the sponge effect (player learning from a better player than himself where it be foreign or national) is limited to short periods of time whereas in the club you play with those guys day in day out. Memo Ochoa is a great example... he has talked about the pointers he had learned from Adolfo Rios, Oswaldo Sanchez, and Pineda.
At last you say something that makes 100% sense. Just one thing, this problem will last forever, or until the foreigners limit in the clubs is reduced drastically. In the meantime, I assure you there will always be better foreign 10s and forwards than natives. I know there are lots of persons against the inclusion of naturalized players, but I find it ridiculous when they say "they are not better"; I'm sorry, players like Marquez Lugo and all of the Atlistas have had multiple chances to show themselves and have flunked. I mean, we all recognize when we have a Luis Garcia, a Luis Hernandez, even a Pelaez... there are no native strikers like that at this moment. If Franco is called right now, these native forwards will still be inferior, no matter how hard you train or how many times Lavolpe keeps calling them... it's a matter of common sense, Franco has showed skills no one else has at this moment. I would totally rather have a NT with mexican players only, but I feel it's stupid to have 1 potentially good weapon available and to not even try it.
Please show me Franco's statistics and compare them along side Olalde, Abundis, Marquez, Iniguez, etc? We give Marquez Lugo Chiquis garcia and Israel Lopez adn expect him to work miracles? Aside from Franco's season where he led the goal scoring charts, he hasnt really done much. Scoring 4-5 goals. That isnt a dominant forward to say the least. HE isnt leaps and bounds better than what we have. And I said it was a quick solution... not an EFFECTIVE solution
Wow, can we say "mental issues". What's the matter kid, daddy didn't give you the keys to the Yugo to go out??? Do us all a favor, sell the yugo- Use the $150 to see a Psychiatrist and have your delusional-schizo-bipolar a$$ committed. "mental midget"??? dude, that reeks cybergeek so bad. You've got less intelligence than the pimple on my a$$ Out!!!! Biaaaaaaaaatch!!!
your statements (aside from insults to the indigenous about staying in jungles) brought nothing to this discussion. It isnt nerdy to want stats or logical statements when one is debating, arguing, discussing, or presenting an issue and/or problem. the few that try to argue with me why Franco is just leaps and bounds better than what we currently have can not present a logical or reasonable rebuttle. They just cant. This is Franco's stats. Everybody is calling him GOD now because he scored 15 goals and was Mexico's top goal scorer in 2004. Olalde, Abundis, etc also scored 15+ plus goals and thats with out a system catered to them This Iniguez and Marquez's stats and as you can see, not that different from Franco. Any decent football player with just an ounce of athleticism can score 4-6 goals per season. Even they they are accidental goals, they will score that many. Franco, aside from having a system designed for his production, is not producing the way some make him out to be. Iniguez, Marquez are averaging almost the same output with less minutes. But why is that overlooked? Now toro.. if your argument is just because France did it, that isnt very convincing. Spain can allow same sex marriages for all I car, just because they do it over there doesnt mean we should. If Germany, Qatar, or whomever wants to utilize 11 naturalized players, thats them. When will the limit stop? First it is zinha, now franco, now gaitan... Ailton (Pumas) has also hinted. Pinhiero has also hinted. Enough is enough. But i guess for you it isnt
Mexico is losing a great opportunity in not playing Franco or Gaitan. Those are 2 players that can make a difference all by themselves. Mexico would be a serious contender in my mind in 2006 if either of the 2 were included in the squad (specially Gaitan).
It's called the Seleccion Nacional for a reason. Many of you want to turn it into the Mexican League All-star team.
Haha.. That's pretty funny. Yeah come on fellas, this is crazy talk. The team should be filled with guys that bleed the colors.
I'm sure Franco can show him the paper where it says he is mexican BTW Rafa Marquez is becoming Spanish/Mexican soon, will he have a place in "your" NT? He won't be 100% mexican anymore! Whether or not you consider him mexican is a whole different matter, I'm sure each person has his/her own "mexican-o-meter" For instance, I consider Franco mexican enough to play in the NT without losing the team's identity... I never heard a "well, the naturalized players gave them the Cup" excuse from Brazil or anyone else back in '98. You think that 1 or 2 naturalized players "tainting" the NT will "offend the country" or "stain the national identity" c'mon... for starters, it's still less than 10% of the whole team, most importantly, it's a TEAM, who cares if the one who scores is not native? Or maybe in another team the one who guards the goal is not native? Or maybe the one who leads the other players from the midfield is not native? Or the one who coaches is not native? I understand your paranoia that someday the whole team will be made out of immigrants, but sometimes your panicking arrives to ridiculous levels.
Why does the the President of the FMF have to be Mexican by birth? WEAK FVCKING ARGUMENT. There is a difference between club and national. What you saying is what most feel about club. I dont care if Piojo, Kleber, Blanco score. But I do care who scores for Mexico You have no problem with Franco saying publicly that Mexico is his 2nd option because Argentina never came true? You have no problem with Gaitan saying he wasnt sure to play with Argentina because coaches dont tend to look in Mexico when they are making the final cut to a World Cup?