Guevara

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/story/64779p-60379c.html

 

I am hoping we get him. I have seen him play and think he is a good player. At some point in the preseason we have to take a leap of faith. If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out but we need quality midfielders.

 

We are already in the middle of a leap, why not take another and another and...

 

I would think it highly unlikely your guy will sign him (Guevara). I don't have any inside info here and I'm also not slamming Guevara.

But Bradley's MO so far seems to be that with the cap money he has left, he wants to be abbsolutely positively sure he gets exactly the right fit, not someone close, not someone who's a decent enough player. Doesn't mean Guevara isn't the right fit, only that I'm guessing that Bradley won't gamble on him. Remember, they could have used an allocation on him earlier and didn't--which seemed to imply that Guevara looked fine but Bradley had a few reservations. And the Rosas situation (where everyone admits that technically he's a fine player) shows that if Bradley has a few reservations, he won't hope that the player might change. Instead, Bradley goes elsewhere.

 

I'm wholeheartedly against signing a player without a trial. It's just too big of a gamble. He could be a Diallo/Serna type player who is great on the field but cancerous in the locker room. He might be injured. He may have difficulty adjusting to American culture. (slight pun there, sorry ) The team may not mesh with his style and vice versa. Maybe he sees MLS as a retirement league, and will not give it his all. Who knows?

The bottom line is that it's just too big of a gamble, and at this stage of development, MLS doesn't need to play that gambling game. Even if he's a fantastic talent, the attendances aren't going to dramatically rise or fall based upon him coming into MLS.

I was completely for the Metros signing Mario, and thought it might be a great addition. But if he had pulled the no-trial stunt, I would have said no to him as well. I'm sure Bradley will find his #10. His track record with talent spotting and development is excellent, and the league wants him to succeed, so it isn't going to hamstring him. Best of luck to the Metros, but if Guevara isn't going to trial, I'd prefer that MLS not sign him.

-Tron

 

Baloney. It's time to take a leap of faith and roll the dice. Guevara is a know quantity- if we can afford him, time to sign him. This isn't a Roy Myers or Sasa Curcic type deal. Did the Scum tryout Stewart? (Who I think will be a bust in MLS)

Sign him.

 

I thought Che was dead.

 

You're right Eric, its absolutely worth the risk of him turning out to be a team cancer, to have poor work habits, to be another Serna or Curcic or Branco. I mean, we can always survive lazy players. Its absolutely worthwhile to use our remaining cap room on a player who is talented as can be but a detriment to the squad.......How quickly we forget the past when the pressing need is the future....

 

There exisits that possiblity. But this is a youngish player entering his prime. Not a has been looking for a payday. I think there is a difference. It is not as if this guy is a total unknown in this parts either. Just cause the Metros have been burnt in the past doesn't mean it will happen again.

This is a tough, tough call.

 

Furthermore, who is to say that a 1 or 2 week trial will prove anything?

 

Look at this guy's resume, he's played for alot of teams, that doesn't neccessarily bode well for a young player entering his prime. Many players perform well on the national side but tend to let the club side slip (and vice versa is true). You could look at someone with Mattheus' pedigree or Valencia's international experience and think he was an ideal player, but then you look at his training habits and demeanor and it was a negative fit for the team. Gueverra is a good player, but to assure him a spot on the team for so much money sets a bad precedent in my opinion.

 

That's not all that uncommon in Latin America. I never thought Valenica or Mattheus was an ideal player- they were on the downside of the carrers, not looking at the upside. I think at this juncture you cannot lob Guevara in with those two.

 

How about Rosas then? The guy obviously didn't perform; there was alot of hype about him, but he didn't pan out. He was a player with a huge upside, aren't you glad we didn't sign him, based on the newpaper reports?

Pedro Alvarez, captain of his Colombian team, known quantity, didn't pan out. Ruben Dario Hernandez, top scorer in Colombia, known quantity, didn't pan out. Alex Comas, top striker in Colombia, know quantity, didn't pan out. Sasa Curcic was in the prime of his career when he came over here, he surely wasn't a good fit. Wellington Sanchez and Marcello Vega had loads of hype and were considered prime players in their countries, how long did they last in the league?

No thanks, if he's not willing to make the effort to train with the team, is he worth the time? I doubt it, his actions and those of his agent set a bad precedent for the type of player he might be.

 

You cannot compare Mario to Guevara. The only hype was generated by people who never saw or heard of him, and were intrigued by his resume- which as you can see works both ways, doesn't it? I have seen Guevara play- could you say the same for Mario?

I won't go through your whole list of players, but none of the one's you listed are in, anyway shape or form close to what Guevara currently is. (I'll just go after one, Sasa Curcic was basically out of football when the Metros got him, hardly in his prime). When i have time later, I'll rip your list apart .

 

Bad analogy coming- but players who are top players do not go on trial. It just doesn't happen. I don't want to sound like I am comparing Guevara to Ronaldo, but it's true. Whether he thinks he is better than what he really is, is a whole other story.

If Bradley thinks as highly as him as I do, and really wants him, he'll find a way to get the goods on him without a formal trial.

Does anyone know if Ruiz had a trial with LA before he signed from Guatemala?

 

The purpose of the list was not to compare players of similar eptitude or inneptitude to Gueverra, but to point out that a player's skills and abilities may not neccessarily fit in well with a particular team or league. All of the players listed had some degree of success but could not manage the transition to MLS. Gueverra may not fit in socially or style wise with Metro. His training habits might be poor, he might take too many touches on the ball, he might just have a different style of play. It would be foolish for us to sign him to a near league max deal without having the option to let him play with the team.

At midseason if Gueverra is a Serna or slower then Lothar, we will decry the move, asking why Bradley didn't force him into camp. No thanks, the abscence of one player, despite it being a team sport, can hurt a team. Look no further then Metro 2001.

 

Or he could be the best signing we ever had. All I am saying is the door swings in both directions, and there are things that can be done other than a trial. Trials are not the be all and end all.

In the end Bradley will do what's right for this team. Only time will tell.

 

If Bradley was so high on him, he would have tried to have him audition before. I'm not saying that Gueverra can't be a good number ten for us, but I don't like the type of player that he thinks himself above a contract.

And Eric, I really am suprised with your logic. Many teams in the world, while cash-strapped as they might be, still don't have the roster limits and cap restrictions that MLS does. Bringing in a player who will eat up half of our remaining cap space who might be a bust is a big risk. This isn't just any move we're making here, lots of other moves are contingent on it as well.

 

And as I said before, Guevara is not a such a shot in the dark as you paint him to be. Most here, including yourself penciled in Garnero, Mario, and Sheppard without even as much as hearing their names before. And from what I have heard, this isn't the first time we tried to get Guevara either.

 

Let's take a look at why Guevara is different than some of the names mentioned before:

Matthaeus and Valencia were former great players who had played on the highest levels in the world and basically considered MLS a joke. They came in with their egos and attitudes and played half-heartedly. Guevara is still in the prime of his club career and is still looking to make an impact. He has played in leagues both superior and inferior to MLS and he is going to have more respect for the league coming in than either Lothar or Valencia had.

On the national team side he is currently a captain, not someone on the tail end.

As for Sasa Curcic, why even mention that name? That year the Lothar deal fell apart and the Metros were left holding the bag and Bora basically pulled him off the scrap heap.

It is true that neither Comas or Alvarez really panned but neither was ever touted as a marquee talent making anywhere near max money so why mention them in Guevara's class?

One last thing to consider is that central Americans coming to MLS seem to excel at a higher rate than other groups. Diaz Arce, Pineda Chacon and most recently Carlos Ruiz have come in and taken the league by storm. I'm sure there are examples of guys who didn't pan out but there are more successes.

Suggesting that the Metros only sign people they try out is idealist and unrealistic.

 

Pre-season is for pencilling in players; rather weak to equate the Rosas hype and tentative lineups to an endorsement of immediate player signings.

The point is roundly being missed though; Gueverra is a gamble, whether a quantity on the international level or not. Andy Williams is a known player on his national team, but he didn't fit in with this side. Right now, in Bradley's system, the #10 is the most important piece to the puzzle, and we need to fill that slot with someone who elevates the players around him. Bradley has some idea from film what Gueverra can do, but will he mesh with the team? Is he a hard worker? Will he be jetting off to Honduras every few weeks? Come on guys, don't argue just to argue, its a big risk and gamble. With the position we are in, we need to make sure that we are making the best choice possable, I for one am wary of signing a guy who thinks himself above training above a team that is one of his suitors.

 

And that's your opinion. And my opinion is that your opinion is too heavy handed.

What player isn't a gamble? Players can be training ground wonders and hardly world beaters when it counts (and vice versa). How do teams in this league and around the world manage to sign players who work out without a trial- regardless of salary constraints?

I think the Mario analogy works perfectly here. People were annointing him our "saviour" without knowing one iota about him.

PS Andy Williams is hardly a known player on his national team. You are comparing a guy with a few caps on a relativley weak team, to a guy who is captain to the one of the most up and coming teams in this region.

 

Your points are valid for sure, but not neccessarily applicable to this case.

We have never seen or scouted Gueverra in person to my knowledge, your knowledge, anyone's knowledge. All Metro presumably has seen according to his agent is game tap. Never once has management interacted with the man on a face to face level. Watching tape is not like scouting a player, watching his off the ball movements, his positioning, his leadership skills. Is Gueverra a good player, in many opinions yes. Is it worth bringing in a player who may not fit into the system, may proove to be a distraction or a chip on his shoulder? certainly not.....

If Bradley is willing to go down to Honduras however, meet Gueverra, watch him train and play and then make an offer for him, this would be reasonably acceptable and perhaps neccessary under the scenario. However, we have had several highly touted young players entering their presumed prime who did not work out in this league i.e. Marquinho, Vega, Sanchez, etc. and it would be foolish to merely bring in a player on the basis of gametape, word of mouth and international play.

Other teams and other leagues are able to bring in players without tryouts because of good scouting systems, club competitions, the presence of reserve teams to slowly groom players into the system, etc. Unfortunately, we don't have the benefit of such a system or network. We could have taken the word of Stoichkov and signed Rosas, a player not up to snuff in the league.

Gueverra comes with hype and talent; but I am hesitant to equate national team success with club success. Look at his career, lots of moving around for a player as young as he is. It leads one to wonder about his motivation and abilities; I surely expect Bradley or Johnston at the very least to scout Gueverra in person before signing him.