Guevara and Gaven in a package deal?

Discussion in 'New York Red Bulls' started by Milhouse, Feb 5, 2006.

  1. Milhouse

    Milhouse Member

    Dec 29, 1998
    Clifton, NJ
    Has anyone seen this?

    http://bigapplesoccer.com/article.php?article_id=5382

    It looks like Alexi is still shopping both players around. So much for Gaven not being traded and Amado having a high price. What teams could be tempted by this? I am thinking it is Columbus offering up Buddle and an allocation for the two players. That would suck for Metro. Can we just send them to the West? Can Colorado or Salt Lake take them?
     
  2. Metrosuccess

    Metrosuccess Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Other than getting donovan back, how can we posssibly do better than what we have with these 2? we have to get zapped ability wise. Yeah, just saw Wolf made $420,000 but only counted $280,000 towards cap. this is type of contrcats we need to phony up the MLS cap like other teams. If we get Wolf he will either get hurt again for millionth time or leave to europe. Can't see letting 2 of our top 5 players go to one team. There is nothing we can get back to compenate for this from one team.
     
  3. Metrosuccess

    Metrosuccess Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That being said , this sounds like a typical Metro trade where we get cap relief for some unknown (garipe?) that may or may not ever work out. If we do this move we have not learned from our previous errors.
     
  4. Milhouse

    Milhouse Member

    Dec 29, 1998
    Clifton, NJ
    Is Garipe still with the team? I want to see if he is any good.

    Other teams have that big salary, but not all of them have worked out (see Sannah, Tony). I would take Josh Wolff, but he would be playing on carpet and he got hurt on that before. If there was a way to get Ruiz or Eddie Johnson, I could go for that. This is just insane that would would just get rid of the two most exciting players on the team. Gaven is the most exciting young player to ever play for the Metros (Wynne hasn't played yet and has not proved anything yet).

    I get the feeling that Alexi is speaking out of both sides of his mouth too. He says he doesn't want to trade Amado, but then there are rumors. Something seems very fishy in the swamp.
     
  5. metros11

    metros11 Member

    Sep 11, 1999
    Highlands of NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IMO, even though Gaven is 'soft', I wouldn't trade him alone for Wolff. He has much more potential. And as for Guevara, keep him at Metro and let him rot on the bench. He'll change his tune quickly when he's not getting playing time.
     
  6. paulocesar

    paulocesar Member

    Oct 4, 2000
    Guevara should go if he's unhappy, but as far as creativity for the Metrostars team, Youri only perhaps has one good season left in his legs, and I can't imagine Mo Johnstone getting a South American playmaker (more likely a Premier League hack that can kick and run :cool: ).
     
  7. Michael K.

    Michael K. Member

    Mar 3, 1999
    There or Thereabouts
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, and (apparently), no.
     
  8. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Guevara really wants to go, then we should try and get something back for him. If he wants to stay, I would keep him. Same goes for Gaven, who has the additional advantage of being from the (extended) area (Hamilton, NJ, just outside of Trenton).

    But then I hate trades in general.
     
  9. Milhouse

    Milhouse Member

    Dec 29, 1998
    Clifton, NJ
    Has Gaven said that he wants out? It seems like Alexi/Mo are offering him up to teams. I do not think Gaven has said anything in the press.
     
  10. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is some rumbling that Kenny Cooper is coming to MLS and KC has the discovery filed on him, that Metro will trade Amado to Dallas for EJ, and Dallas will trade Amado for Cooper. ( I guess the big hang up was that Dallas didnt want Guevara and his salary)

    Makes sense, lets see if it happens.
     
  11. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Not really. Amado and Cooper both want to go to FCD.

    EJ for Amado makes sense, but FCD would probably want to trade EJ for an allocation and use that to offset Ruiz's contract (he's the real hang-up in this situation, as FCD didn't want to make a move until he re-signed with the League, which he apparently did if you check the FCD board). There are really only a few scenarios:
    A) FCD trades EJ for Guevara straight up.
    B) KC trades an allocation for Amado, and then trades Amado to FCD for EJ. I can't see Amado changing his mind on where he wants to go, especially if it meant playing for KC.
    C) SOme other team makes a move for Guevara. I don't think there's another team that would have the cap space and willingness to take him in. Maybe Chivas, but they're already at or near the cap max. Possibly NE, but I don't see SN wanting a character like Guevara on his team.

    In either of the first two ideas, FCD would still have to move players in order to get under the cap by moving a higher-priced player (Vanney? Valakari?) The untouchables would be Ruiz, JOB, and Mulrooney, everybody else would probably be fair game.
     
  12. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey listen man, im just passing this on...i dont profess to know exactly why they would do it. Cooper will only play for Dallas if he comes to MLS which it appears is very possible right now, KC ownes his discovery rights, KC doesnt need another striker with a big salary and are weak in the midfield, Metro want EJ and get rid of Guevara.

    1) Dallas dont want to do a EJ for Amado deal striaght up, if they did this deal would have happened already.

    2) Amado has no say in this he is under contract and just wants to get out of Metro. He only said he would kike to play for another team and hnted at Dallas as where he would most like to be.

    3)Sure, thats always a possibility when it comes to trades.


    It does make sense regardless if it happens or not.
     
  13. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    I know you didn't come up with it, I'm just trying to explain why EJ hasn't been traded yet. EJ for Amado was (presumably) contingent on FCD re-signing Ruiz. It apprears certain they've done so, as the transfer window for Ruiz out of MLS is over. Now FCD has to find a way to fit Ruiz under the cap because he'll likely be at or near max. Trading EJ would solve a lot of their cap problem. However, the question is what FCD wants to make off of EJ. EJ to KC for Cooper and a part of an allocation would probably work. EJ for Amado would just mean FCD has to find another way to shed cap space. I think scenario 1 (EJ to KC) is the likeliest one at this point.

    As for Amado, in an ideal world, Lalas would pucker up and accept that he needs Amado more than Amado needs him. I think Lalas made a mess out of the situation and is now going to have to backpedal in order to fix the situation. The last thing he needs is a TO or Ron Artest situation, but unfortunately for you guys, it seems you're already there.
     
  14. Milhouse

    Milhouse Member

    Dec 29, 1998
    Clifton, NJ
    I highly doubt that Cooper will be getting a high salary. What has be done to deserve that? I would bet he gets something in the 35,000-45,000 range. If he isn't just a developmental player all together.
     
  15. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only thing i see that is out of place with EJ to KC for Cooper and an allocation is that that would leave KC with 2 huge contratcs in Wolff and EJ in a possition they are already fairly deep in. Given Hunts thriftiness with KC these days i that would be a bit out of charecter.

    While Amado isnt a discount he is a bit cheaper than EJ and KC is weak in midfield now that Preki and Klien are gone..seems like a better fit with the club than Johnson.

    It means Dallas gets to get thier guy and dump EJ's huge salary.
    It means KC gets a playmaking midfielder they sorely need.
    It means Metro get the forward they desire.

    So like i said, regardless if this happens in some form or another..it does make sense.
     
  16. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Is KC really that deep at forward? Seally, Wolff, and Arnaud is all that I can think of, and KC has been playing Arnaud in the midfield for more than a handful of games. KC could conceivably play all three and have a pretty dynamic offense. Throw in their Superdraft pick and Seally, and KC would probably be happy with that deal.

    In my mind, FCD is trying to think of a way to get everything (add Guevara & Cooper, lose EJ). I don't think they can pull that off, nor do I think they need to. I don't think FCD needs Amado when they have Mulrooney and Nunez. I don't think KC needs Guevara if they can get EJ, play Arnaud in the midfield, and then look at a foreign option as a backup or starter. I think Amado becomes superfluous to both teams' needs, and the Metros lose out because teams already have something else in mind. Do you really think Gansler would take on Guevara if he could find a better option either on his team or elsewhere? Clarke would love to have Guevara, but he's already got an up and comer, plus a cap problem.

    As good as Guevara is and how bad other teams would want him, I think he is going to be in a situation where the Metros will be his only option. Unless some other team is willing to drastically shake their lineup to take him (Columbus? Houston? NE?), I see him staying where he's at.

    Of course, I say this and then some move will come out of nowhere like the Wynne for Hernandez and #5 pick deal or the Ward for Henderson trade. Johnston is so shrewd in his dealings that the Metros will probably come up with something that nobody saw coming.
     
  17. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    I should add that I'm basing my previous post on the assumption that Amado is only willing to go to FCD or Chivas. My ignorance here is that I don't know if Amado is willing to accept any trade or if he's only willing to play for FCD. If he doesn't care where he plays, then, yes, I could see him at KC and EJ in NJ. I think most fans would have a headache from trying to figure out the logistics of it all, but it's not as far-fetched as I originally thought it was; FCD would solve their cap problem and get a good return on EJ, and KC and the Metros fill a need. I think the next few days will be pretty enlightening on the whole situation.
     
  18. metrocorazon

    metrocorazon Member

    May 14, 2000
    Amado NEVER hinted he wanted to go to FCD. What happened was there was rumors of him being traded to FCD for EJ before the draft and he was asked about the whole situation. And basically he said "I don't want to play here anymore because of Lalas...blah, blah, blah, and if its Dallas where I go, so be it"
     
  19. Metrosuccess

    Metrosuccess Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These guys are so good so why would we have to include them together? We should be able to get almost anyone in the league straight up for Amado and similarly for Eddie, though obviously a step down talent wise. This scenario makes no sense whatsoever unless it is a Metro move.
     
  20. metrocorazon

    metrocorazon Member

    May 14, 2000
    Because people know we are desperate to get rid of Amado and no one wants to take the chance of trading for a whinney primadona. So they need to offer teams more. Hence Gaven being packaged. If you go back 3 months before this whole thing started you might be a able to trade Guevara for anyone, but now his stock has gone down and the situation that he has dug himself(and Alexi too) in has lowered his value tremendously. He still has talent but if you look at it from another team's perspective they know we are between a rock and a hard place, so they are gunna take full advantage.
     
  21. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ******** Guevara.

    It's his own stupid ********ing whiny piece of shit ass's fault that he has been traded yet.

    If I'm Lalas, I seriously consider eating his salary and telling him to stay in Honduras and ship him off to some team in Lower Elbonia. Since his usefulness for Metro is at an end and I'm sick of getting anal-raped in trades every time.
     
  22. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kenny Cooper has signed with FC Dallas and it seems there is a compensation package between FC Dallas and KC..still no word yet on Metro's involvment but that leak earlier i posted is looking more and more likely.
     
  23. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
    Doubtful that someone coming straight over from ManU's reserve side and who by all accounts could catch on with a team in the Championship would sign as a developmental. I'm going to say he is in the 100k range but regardless FCD will have to make a move because Ruiz at max salary will put them over.
     
  24. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    Why turn on Amado now? He's the same as he's always been. This would be like banning you from 101 because you've become too strident!
    It does seem that Lalas may be contemplating a giveaway at this point. But since Metros don't have much wiggle room within the MLS system, he feels compelled to get something in return. If Mo isn't happy with Gaven, then a package may bring something tangible, say one player, along with something speculative, like a future draft pick, in return. How the two major holes on the team will be filled is another problem.
     
  25. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cause it's getting worse. Cause well lose Gaven for practically nothing. Cause both will terrorize us if they end up in the East

    It's like watching Billy Joel graduate from wiping out on motorcycles in the middle of the street after a few beers to plowing a BMW through a house and ending up floating in the pool after downing a bottle of red a bottle of white and some Mad Dog 20/20 to wash it down.
     

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