Guatemala or China - how shorthanded should the US be in qualifying?

Well, if we play the Y we should be able to take care of Guatamala even after sending our best possible team to China.

Lets assume we send Gooch, Donovan and Bornstein to China. This choice of overage players is somewhat arbitrary but I want to use it to illustrate what that would still leave us with for Guatamala.

--------Ching-------EJ--------
---Convey-----------Dempsey-
-----------Mastroeni----------
------------Clark--------------
Pearce---Boca---Parkhurst--Cherundolo
------------Howard------------

A little weak in central midfield but hey we've gotten used to that by now.

We could even get a little creative here. Give Twellman his last chance. Give Mapp a game. Bring Reyna out of retirement a la Ramos in the last cycle. Our U23 looks so deep right now that we might even find some of its leftovers useful--Smith, Zizzo, Szetela, McCarty.

 

well we will have

howard

dolo gooch boca corrales? what is the age of pearce and bornstein?

dempsey mastro donovan DMB? or someone else

EJ Ching/Twellman

Bench
Hanneman or Keller
Demeritt
one of the three forwards above
kenny cooper (maybe)
Ante Razov
Lewis/Mapp
et al

I personally think this line up, while thin, could get three points in Guatemala.

Overage players that we could send
Maybe Convey, and use Robbie Rogers elsewhere
But I really cant think of others except maybe parkhurst (age?) or demeritt, to sure up the back line

 

guys dont get overconfident that usa will qualify to olympics. 4 years ago with donavan and beasley usa failed to qualify.

 

CORRALES?? LOL I'll rather have a sack of s**t on that side.

 

A good series of questions. Here's my take, if we do qualify for the Olympics:

Send three overage guys to China. Assuming we don't take two of any one position, we have enough depth at the senior level to give up anybody.

We should not bother with second-tier overage players for China. Not sure if these guys would even help the U-23s.

We can take three points off of Guatemala, even without three starters. The flipside of our depth is that we don't have many - if any - players that distinguish themselves from the rest of the pool. We don't have the one player who, in his potential absence, would kill our style of play or efficiency.

My one concern is that we played a hack-tacular game against them last year in the Gold Cup (with an Onyewu red card.) Down in Guatemala, they'll be even chippier. We need to ensure we have enough guys who can hold on to the damn ball in midfield or attack. Hypothetically, if the Olympic squad took Feilhaber, Dempsey, and Donovan, I'd be worried.

 

Assuming we qualify.....you have to take your best players to World Cup qualifying (assuming again that we advance over Dominica/Barbados) as you can't really risk it IMHO.

As a result, Altidore is in Guatemala IMHO. No doubt. Bradley is in Guatamala. Spector is in Guatemala IMHO. Feilhaber should be in Guatemala IMHO. You can't take chances with those guys.
_____________________________________________________________
I think that is the hard line....

You could take chances allowing Adu and Edu to get Olympic experience over the qualifier as they probably wouldn't start barring injury and there is enough depth at their positions to allow us to risk it.

Adu - Not a starter for the full team but a decent offensive sub.
Edu - Could be a starter but you also have very similar players and depth at his position.





Overage Guys: IMHO the U-23 team needs help in central defense. Gooch, Boca, Parkhurst and Conrad are in Guatemala as our four defenders. Then IMHO you bring in a Jay Demerit or Eddie Robinson or Corey Gibbs. (if he is healthy and not fully ready for qualifiers). After that, I would say forward as I think Altidore is definitely out. So I would bring in Brian McBride for the Olympic team (if he wants to do it....don't know if he will or he won't). After that, a GK is likely the third option and I would say the full team is in fine hands with Howard and Hahnemahn/Keller/whomever. So I would take Guzan for the experience.

 

Seems pretty clear to me that even with all of our 2nd team players, the only team we could not compete with in CONCACAF is Mexico. May not be complimentary to say, but that's the way it is. I'm sure we've beaten Guatemala with an EJ/Ching pairing before, I am sure we can do it again.

 

me too, i just was not sure about which u-23 players were in the olympic pool.

 

I think we could easlily go to the olympics with no overaged players and go real far, leaving all over 23 players available for the important WCQ in Guatemala and not taking away from the olympic team, you could still have a team like this:

---------------------Howard-----------------
Cherundalo---Onyewu---Bocanegra---Bornstein
----------------------Clark-------------------
----------Donovan-----------Convey----------
---------------------Dempsey-----------------
----------------Ching--------Johnson----------

I think this is quite a strong lineup, and central midfield is a worry for some of you guys but not if we run this alignment and use Clark as a d-mid, this alignment I think would be best in this game anyways with the way Guatemala tends to bunker when playing us.

 

This is an interesting thread kudos to the thread starter... I think we should definitely bring a full strength team to the Olympics because we have the ability to go far in them. A good showing would be a big confidence builder for the young guys and if we do really really well (medaling) it could also be a big step for the growth of soccer in this country.

Guatemala is a tough environment to play in. Our last two times playing there in WCQs we drew 1-1 and 0-0. They're a rough team and they most likely will play the same way they did in the 0-0 friendly last year which was the sorriest excuse for soccer I've ever seen, throw 10 men inside the 18 and wait it out.

I think this would be a great opportunity to trot out the veterans that have been in this situation many times before. They will be used to the very hostile enviornment, the chippy style of Guatamala, and the pressure of qualifying. My lineup assuming the overagers on the Olympic squad are Guzan, Bornstein, and DeMerit:

-----EJ/Ching-------Dempsey--------
--Beasley---------------Donovan----
-------Clark-----Mastroeni---------
Hejduk---Boca---Gooch--Cherundolo
------------Howard------------

Bench
Hahnemann
Conrad/Parkhurst
Pearce
Olsen
Lewis
Wolff
EJ/Ching

Note: I'm not saying I want these tactics (twin dmids/Dempsey forward/Donovan wide) I think BB will stay with them. Also if Beasley is still injured or not in shape put Convey or Davis in and if Ching is hurting substitute Twellman for him.

 

I don't really think that Guatemala is the place to get Altidore and Adu their first WCQ action. The one of the three most hostile places we will play. Let's let them get their moment in the sun in Bejing and give guys like Hejduk and Mastroeni the nod. Matches like there are where vets come in handy.

 

For the Olympics we should send players only 23 and under. Our national team will still be strong because we will still have Donovan, Boca, Dempsey, Dolo, EJ, & Gooch. We need the olympics to give some of the younger guys the experience and confidence from playing in a tournament. I'd rather see how our future team suits up against the rest of the world.

Eventhough we will have some first team players in china we can still have a strong squad:

---------------------Howard-----------------
Cherundolo---Onyewu---Bocanegra---Bornstein
----------------------Clark-------------------
----------Dempsey-----------Beasley----------
---------------------Donovan-----------------
-----------------Wolff--------Johnson------------

We still have:

Wolff
Twellman
DeMerit
Califf
Conrad
Goodson
Mastroeni
Mapp
Parkhurst

 

I think Guzan, Parkhurst and Bornstein will be the three overage Olympians and none of the three will return to play in MLS after the tournament.

 

I think the hostile environment that Guatemala provides will be a vital experience for any young player. Eventhough I would want them in the olympics, that experience will only prepare them especially when we play mexico in Azteca.

 

You see, I'm torn on the issue. On one hand, you're right, it would be great experience for them. On the other hand, we want to get qualification off on the right foot and they might be a liability.
Now, toss in the variable of the Olympics and it tips the scales (for me at least) towards the bring in the vets side.

 

Winning the Olympics is probably unrealistic at this point. Putting all of our eggs into that basket would not be wise. Our best players should be in WC qualifying.

 

Our potential first team players among our U-23s are:
--Bradley
--Edu
--Feilhaber
--Altidore
--Adu

I'm absolutely confident that we can get a result in Guatemala without all those guys. We have enough depth that our 2nd tier players can compete with most of CONCACAC, sans Mexico. A Mastroeni/Clark midfield pairing is certainly capable of doing the job (remember that was the pairing against Mexico in Feb. 2007), and I'm confident in Ching/Twellman/EJ against the likes of Guatemala.

Also, I will not be overly concerned if we play for a draw and earn a draw in Guatemala. We'll still be in good shape to pull a 4-pointer on them. We should be able to get a 6-pointer out of Cuba, and I'm not too worried about T&T.

Still, my biggest concern is making sure that disaster doesn't strike against Barbados/Dominica. We need to make sure we take care of business and don't overlook them.

 

These are all very good questions.

Thankfully, with the exception of central midfield, the senior and U-23 teams complement each other real well. The glaring needs of the U-23s are in defense and at goal - and our senior team has decent depth at those spots. Also, our three best overage field players - Beasley, Donovan, Dempsey - play positions that are more than adequately filled by our young guys. It actually would be a bit frustrating as a US fan to have Beasley or Donovan on the team because they would probably send Robbie Rogers and Freddy Adu to the bench.

So, for goal, you take Guzan for the U-23s and leave Howard for the seniors. For center back, you take Gooch and leave Boca, DeMerit and any number of MLS guys (Conard, Robinson, Parkhurst) for the qualies. I think the other overage player would be a fullback - either Cherundolo or Bornstein - depending on how the U-23s look. Simek and Pearce would provide cover for dolo and Bornstein, respectively, on the senior team.

In reality, I think this only ensures that Donovan/Beasley won't be at the Olympics. No real suprise, though, considering Donovan would probably carp about missing Gals games and Beasley is coming off a major injury. If there's a worry, it's that our our central midfield will be undermanned without Bradley, Edu, and Feilhaber. We should be fine against the Guates, though. And we're certainly in a better position here then we were with the Copa America last summer.

 

Then again, it might be someplace like Turks and Caicos we've visiting in August anyway, which would make the whole issue even less significant.

 

You can take any 3 players off the normal team and we will still be fine. Lets load up and make a good run at the olympics.

 

Here are three overage Olympic players that Bradley might not consider essential for WCQ:

Marcus Hahnemann (to cover U-23 inexperience and to give him one final chance to start in a big tournament). Note, due to obligations at Reading, this wouldnt work, so try Keller instead. If Keller is starting at Fulham or another European club, then hope for an experienced MLS goalie who's team is either already qualified for or eliminated from the playoffs.

Jimmy Conrad or any other non-essential central defender (since central defense is a U-23 weakness, and Bradley seems to be averse to anyone other than the Bocanegra/Onyewu pairing)

Either Eddie Lewis or Frankie Hejduk, as a reward for their previous national team service

 

Guzan?

How about Parkhurst, since everybody seems bananas for him and Spector together on the backline.

Would rather see Moor instead of Hejduk. Alright, I feel bad for even thinking that.

 

Good thread topic. Now that Spector is available I don't see the need for overage players other possibly Guzan. The backline can be

-----Randolph/Wallace------Spector---Ianni------Wynne------
-----------------------------Guzan---------------------------


Senior team for the WCQer can be:

----------------------Ching---EJ------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
---------Demps-----------------------Donovan----------
---------------------Clark---Olsen------------------------