Group G's General Discussion Thread

It seems both teams knew they really needed to win this game, which made it exciting and end to end.

I get Iran starting off strong, but they were too reckless going forward like that so early on acting like it was the 85th minute and they needed to score at all costs. It left their defense very exposed and they paid the price. They had the better quality players, they should have just been more patient and let the game play out.

The stunt the US pulled with Iran is a disgrace, it certainly did not help matters.

It will be very hard for either team to advance at this point, but not impossible.

 

IMO, Iran's team (influenced by our fans and media) at first underestimated New Zealand due to the latter's ranking.* And after New Zealand scored, it was obvious that the players had lost confidence and were quite shaken. It took them a while to start wearing off the shock but even then, they still had to face against a side that did have some quality upfront especially.**

*The underestimation of New Zealand due to their poor ranking simply shows some people don't understand how these ranking formulae work. There is simply very few points to earn within the OFC for ranking purposes, while the few friendly matches team play will hardly compensate for that fact (given the lower weight rightly given to friendly matches). If you took the exact same team as Brazil have, including all their players and coaching staff etc, for instance, and called them New Zealand and had them play in the OFC for the past 4 years on the points New Zealand had earned up to then, and if they got the same friendly results Brazil have gotten and had blown away every opponent in the OFC, they still wouldn't rank even in the top 50. That is just how the formula work.

**The 'talent' issue is ultimately not measured by any single metric but if you look at New Zealand's transfer market value and compared them to other AFC teams, even Iran, you would see them with a higher market value than most of the teams from the AFC at this World Cup including Iran (they slightly edge Iran's team on the transfer market but I agree that Iran have better players overall). But this idea that New Zealand is some rubbish side isn't correct either. I saw them play England before this match against Iran and said so then.

 

On the politics and political issue, I must admit being pleasantly surprised how well the match itself played out with Iranian fans clearly cheering their team. That doesn't take away all the stuff Iran had to get through to make it to this game and all the damage that was already done. But all in all, this turned out much better and less politically problematic on math day than I feared.

 

At the same time, with regard to the "political" aspects to the game:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-w...of-us-right-after-first-match-amir-ghalenoei/
Iran World Cup team coach says it was ordered out of U.S. right after first match

Inglewood, Calif. — The coach of Iran's World Cup team said it was ordered to leave the U.S. and return to its training base in Mexico only a few hours after opening its politically charged tournament by playing to a 2-2 draw with New Zealand on Monday night.

Coach Amir Ghalenoei didn't say who ordered the Iranians to leave earlier than planned. The team had expected to spend the night in California to maximize the normal recovery process after its opening game, only to be told after the match that everyone must immediately get on a plane for the 140-mile trip back to Tijuana.

"They didn't even give us time to recover," Ghalenoei said through an interpreter. "After the game today, they said to us, 'You have to leave immediately.' It's very important for us to have time for recovery, (but) we are asked to get on a plane and return to our camp in Tijuana, and we are really troubled by that."

 

I think we will struggle in this group, essentially Egypt just handed you the gameplan. We have no real answer for it, certainly not when Doku is a no-show.

 

As expected by almost every iranian football fan (except one) Irans defence once again looked like amateurs. And Im not just talking the defenders but the whole defensive structure of the team. So much space in the middle of the pitch, so much distance between forwards and midfielders and midfielders and defenders. We already knew that this coach play football like in the 70s. When North Korea, Kyrgyzstan and Afghanistan can score multiple goals against us, so Can New Zealand.

It also doesnt help that the most inform iranian player Sayyadmanesh from Westerlo in Belgium isnt invited because the coach doesnt like how he looks. Or another player Hosseinnejad from Russia who has pace and Can create chances isnt invited because the coach doesnt like how he looks… and Azmoun our best goalscorer isnt invited (thats not the coachs fault)

We had to win this game to advance. It will be very difficult now as we have to beat either Belgium or Egypt. Our Only chance is Egypt resting some players against us. But we saw Yesterday how good Egypt are defensively and how Quick they are on counters. Dont Think our old defence Can handle that.

Irans league has been cancelled since the War started so many players dont have match fitness. Maybe it would be a good idea to invite those players playing in Europe. I cant understand how “fans” put personal agendas over this team and insist on defending this coach. We couldnt win against freaking New Zealand. They are not better than Morocco and Wales. And they scored 2 goals against us. More than Spain, Portugal, Morocco, USA, Argentina, Nigeria and Wales have done the last 3 World Cups.

Im pissed off. I bleed for this national team, I travel the world to Watch Them. And then the staff dont give a ******** about us

 

My friend dont worry. Egypt were great in defending and didnt let Doku play one on one. Iran is going to let Doku and De Bruyne get all the time in the world. You will probably even get alot of counter attacks on us. Unless our son of a donkey coach just realise that defending is part of the game, and you cant just go all out attack, then you will probably score 3-8 goals against us

 

Do you really think your coach is going to treat Belgium and even Egypt like New Zealand and leave that much space ? I doubt it.

 

Maybe not as offensive but we wont play like Egypt played Belgium, thats for sure. Iran always leaves a ton of space between the midfielders and defenders. This aint the 2014-2022 Iran.

Maybe he learnt from the New Zealand game and will consider changing it up. But no iranian have any faith in him doing that. A coach who invites players based on who kiss his ass

 

Of all the Asien teams that have played, Iran has played against the worst opponent and gotten the least favourable result.

In modern football you must have a good tactic, as all teams are tactically smart. Iran is not a great side, and must adapt to the opposition. We aint spain or France.

 

This is a bit of a straw man. I don't think anybody puts too much stock into Fifa rankings and people know it is problematic. New Zealand is ranked 82nd in the world. For context. Curacao is is 83. Bolivia (who lost playoff to Iraq) is 77. Ghana is 73. Jamaica (who lost playoff) is 71. Jordan is 65. Bosnia is 63. Uzbekistan is 50 (Uzbekistan is around Iran's level now, due to our poor coaching regressing us, but is still stronger than New Zealand).

The fact is that irrespective of Fifa rankings, New Zealand is among the weakest teams at this world cup, and keep in mind this is a 48 team world cup. Even if we assume they are around the 32nd team mark, that would still make them the weakest team of a 32 team world cup: I don't think anybody would argue they are better than top 32 in this world cup. There is simply no way this New Zealand is better than Wales 2022 for example. Are you saying New Zealand is better than Jordan for example? And what I saw vs Canada (and Italy/euro qualifiers), Bosnia is clearly stronger than New Zealand.

Sure, we had slightly better players in 2022, but we beat Wales, and Wales was better than this New Zealand. And anybody who watched the Iran New Zealand match could tell Iran had better players than New Zealand. And the political issues are not really a factor yet: this was the first game and you saw how much our players run for the entire 90 minutes. They were not tired, yet. The tiredness factor will kick in by the 2nd/3rd game. So Ghalenoie cannot use this as an excuse. The fact is he got outcoached and outclassed and failed against New Zealand. But he is trying to deflect by bringing up politics and saying things like this was one of the most beautiful games of the group stages. Yes, it was for the neutral observer, but it was at the detriment of Iran advancing from the group.

I know you are not a fan of Carlos Queiroz, I also criticized him much of the time. But the fact is that overall, due to all the circumstances, we cannot get a coach better than his level. That is our ceiling. Maybe it was time to switch to a coach at his level who would be more attacking. But Ghalenoie no matter how you look at it is not on the same level. Anybody can play nice attacking and then leak goals constantly to the weakest teams, I could have done that sitting on the bench too. That is not competent coaching.

At the end of the day, Iran and New Zealand are currently on the same general broader categorical level, but Iran is still one degree higher, so we should have won. Due to there not being a big gap between the 2 teams, a draw is not that unexpected, but based on how the game specifically went, the draw was directly due to poor coaching, so it is inexcusable. If the coaching was decent and we still drew fine, these things happen, but that was not the case. It was that we drew/did not win due to poor tactics and lineup and player selection, not due to New Zealand overperforming.

Having said all that, New Zealand is a well organized team and plays pragmatically. This means they will not get blown out by Egypt and Belgium and will keep the scoreline close/respectable. But they are too weak overall. It will be quite rare for them to get any result from those matches. It is highly likely they will lose both.

 

Well said Persianfootball and I agree. And talking about XG and other stuff is a loser mentality. Spain also had a higher XG and Cape Verde, that doesnt mean the Spanish Press wont critize the team.

Unfortunately some people doesnt want to listen to sence. Some iranians are to radical in our opinions. They will defend their heros to the death and cuss you out for having a different opinion

 

I watched both games. Overall, they're all hopeless in the grand scheme of things.

Belgium: Highly over rated. Were afraid to atk.
Egypt: Most organized and balanced team of the group.
Iran: Imbalanced. Attacks like maniacs, defends like pre-schoolers.
NZ: They have quality and grit but unrefined.

This group is open for business. I wouldn't be surprised if Belgium ends up in 4th place tbh. But like I said, none of them have the quality to go far into the tournament.

 

Looking at some of the other games in other groups, Iran is lucky that there is no top 5 team in the group, otherwise it could get ugly and would lose by 3-4 goals.

 

The portions of your comments (quoted above) I (more or less) agree with.(although for better or worse, I expect New Zealand to draw Egypt).

I don't think this is the time or place to argue about the points you have made that I disagree with. We can both address the issues at length when the World Cup is over. (I am not here to recruit followers for Iran's coach but I am particularly mindful of not doing anything that would add to what is an already difficult circumstance our team faces both externally and internally. For various reasons that I can explain at length later, I am a strong advocate of Iran using Iranian coaches at the key tournaments such as the World Cup to give Iranian coaches the necessary experience and to build up a cadre of coaches that can pass along that experience and build on inside the country).

I am incidentally mindful of the fact that Iran's failure to defeat New Zealand puts a huge dent on Iran's prospects of advancing from its group. But I am not hopeless. My main concern will be the fatigue and related issues given the circumstances Iran faces. Otherwise, I would be even more hopeful.

 

Ghalenoie is old and stubborn. I don't find any benefit in giving him experience. At least if it was a younger/more flexible domestic coach. I also think the football inside the country is structurally poor and little chance of reform and our best chance is to have as many players in Europe (even in mid level leagues like Belgium and Russia) as possible. I have been saying this for a long time, and our best results indeed come from when we have better/more Europe-based players (with the exception of WC 2006, which had multiple issues). We even saw the difference between the likes of Mohebi (Russia) and Ghayedi (UAE). While talented, Ghayedi's end product was lacking because of gap between Iran/Arab leagues and Europe. We also saw how Ghoddos dropped in performance as soon as he left Europe, I think he should be a last resort attacking sub.

 

So far it has been predictable. Iran managed to create a few chances as expected but as expected was not able to capitalize on any of them.

Neither team really has a tactic. Iran is parking the bus and trying counters, and Belgium is trying to break down the defence without any tactics or creativity. But the issue is that Belgium has no standout superstars that can break down the defense with one swift move. At the same time, Iran's defense is not really impressive, just a generic park the bus tactic that has not conceded more due to Belgium's lackluster performance rather than superior defensive discipline or tactics. There are still holes in Iran's defence, If we were playing a stronger team we would have surely conceded.

What surprised me is how weak Belgium are. I thought the Egypt game was a one off, but they seem to be overrated. They do not really have any specific tactics, individual quality, creativity, or grit.

Having said that, Iran's defense is also nothing special. All it will take is one moment, one of those crosses being latched on to, one bounce going a certain way, and Belgium can eventually score.

I had predicted that Iran would lose this match for sure based on my assessment of Belgium, which seemed to be inaccurate. Given my updated assessment of Belgium, I would say that still most likely Belgium will likely score and win, but now I think a draw is somewhat possible.

It is amazing how weak our group is, unfortunately this rare opportunity/gift will be wasted due to our own weakness this time around. Any normal Iran team should have been able to draw this weak Belgium (and beat New Zelanad) comfortably and advance. But now we have to rely on luck.

 

Iran and Belgium are tied 0:0 at HT.
Iran is playing defensively but has had at a couple of good chances. One was saved by Courtois the other was a goal by Taremi that was barely offside. Defensively so far we have a parked bus that has limited Belgium for the most part although they have had a couple of half chances. The game is probably not as exciting for neutrals but I'm sure most Iranian fans would be happy if the score and the boring nature of the match held into the second half.

 

I was not happy with the referee in the first half, btw. There were several fouls in favor of Iran he didn't call. And while I am not a fan of handing red cards easily, the foul by Lukaku on Beiranvand was probably a red as the studs were up.

 

Iran attacking a bit more in 2nd half, which is a mistake because it nearly cost 2 goals. Need to maintain park the bus + pray it is the best chances overall.

 

Useless subs by ghalenoie. On the other hand this bizarre Belgium side gifted a 1 man advantage with that amateur mistake that led to the red card. I would still play defensive + try to counter a bit more, rather than attack and get scored on. It would be a mistake to change game plan, because 10 man Belgium can still score if we give them space at the back. So far Belgium's offense has not been able to break through the defense, so it is better to continue that strategy (and hit them on the counter with the man advantage) than try to build and go up and leave holes at the back.

 

We could not create a single decent opportunity with 30 mins of 1 man advantage. With luck (Belgium's bizarre red card gift and their inability to score, we were somehow able to hold out for a draw. Very disappointing, but completely expected with this team and coach. Any normal Iranian world cup team would have been expected to draw this weak Belgium side comfortably (not with luck), and with the red card should have won.

I don't have much hopes for the Egypt game, because I honestly think Egypt will be better than Belgium to break down this defence and score. Egypt does have some players who can get past this defense. But at the same time, our build up play and offense is weaker than Egypt. Egypt will most likely win, but a draw, as we saw today, is not impossible. We would have to hope to make it through as 3rd place team with 3 points and a non-negative goal differential, and hope that Egypt somehow fumbles against New Zealand and cannot win.

It is bizarre (but completely expected unfortunately) that we only have 2 points after playing New Zealand and this Belgium and these circumstances (30 mins of man advantage). This kind of opportunity comes once every 10-20 years in the world cup.

 

I respect Iran and Belgium.
However, I don't think these teams deserve to go further in this tournament.
It's only the first round, maybe they can produce more and better than that.