You're saying I'm a eurosnob? No, I just have a good enough knowledge of the world game to know where MLS falls in the grand scheme of things. I can be a fan without being blinded by my emotions. There's a big difference between MLS being someone's favourite league and it being the best....but that often gets confused on BS. I'm not trashing on MLS, quite the contrary I'm a big fan...I watch almost every game (on TV because of my location) when I could just as easily watch an EPL, La Liga, Serie A or friggin Honduran league if I really wanted.
late to the discussion, but that was a great column and he said it better than what I've been trying to say. MLS is in business for MLS, not for the Euro leagues. Well done, oh Brother of the Douchebag
Too bad that "sportswriter" is Greg Lalas He writes as well as he announces a Revs game. The best part of this was the point on MLS not normally taking players on loan without an option to buy. I think this is one policy MLS should change for next season.
These teams have never won the world cup. The olympics tournament is meaningless. The only competition they won was Euro 1984 thanks to the very best european player in the 1980's Michel Platini. I repeat once again, France since the 70's has one of the best youth system in Europe, they have ALWAYS produced quality talents, BUT these players mostly failed to dominate they should since they used to play in a weak french league that didn't help to improve their talents. Thanks to the Bosman rule, the French players have experienced the high level of play and improved dramatically their talents in better leagues. Noway those guys would have been so good if they all stayed in France. We have all seen the big improvement of the french players when they started playing in foreign leagues. The only title they won was the Euro 1984, In 1982 and 1986 WC they lost against Germany twice. They are not simply by switching shirts, they are playing in BETTER leagues with better coaching, level of play, intensity and opponents. You claimed something with no arguments and no proofs. You just can't become a world class player if you don't play in world class leagues. First of all the national coach wasn't WIDELY criticized, it was only Jean Marie Lepen, a well known Far right right politician, who criticized the national team that didnt look "french enough") ... What the hell you're talking about ??? The best french players DON'T play in France. French teams' performances in European cup are just as poor as usual. I think you have totally ignorant about french soccer... I think you don't even know what you're talking about... lol
Lame argument... Ok, so you believe that any single Greek or Puerto Rican player is good enough to play in NBA and able to score 25+ points per game because they beat USA ??? Ok, my point is players like Nowitzki, Gasol, Ginobili or Tony Parker improved drastically their skills playing in NBA. If they weren't playing in NBA, they wouldn't have been as good as they are.
Yes but the fact they finished 3rd and 4th in those years is a testemant to the fact that the french national team was good. You attempted to suggest that the only reason france has risen to the level they are now is due to selling off players. I am saying france has been good before, without having a walth of players in top leagues. Those players would be just as good, just not as high profile because they wouldn't be playing for uber clubs in Europe. This is the classic "chicken or the egg" arguement. Did a player become world class by playing for the club or was he always world class talent and thats why he was signed in the first place? The reason why they are even playing for those better teams and leagues is preciesly because they are better players to begin with. Would Ronaldinho or Zidane have been any less talented if they didnt sign with Barca and Juve respectivly? Why do you think both those clubs went after those players in the first place? Because of some vague assumption that they would be better players by virtue of coming to their better club/league or because they felt those players would help them win matches? I would say world class players are sought after and pursued by world class clubs. Some would say Carlos Tevez is a world class player...but under your rules he only would be world class by playing in england? World class clubs look for world class players, where they play effects their exposure to the world not their talents as a player. Regardless of who said what, you still ignored the impact what i said. They go where the money is, Ligue 1 cant win in a trasfer war. They dont leave because they think they will magically become better players elsewhere. Lyon has done quite well in club compotition, Monaco made the final a few years back, several french teams have done well in UEFA cup. Most french clubs cant afford to go toe to toe with europe elite. it has nothing to do with their level of coaching or talent. I wont pretend to know more about French football than a french football fanatic, but in this case it seems to be so. [/QUOTE]
Good players are good players. Manu was considered a great player by international standards long before SA drafted him. All those players has talent, thats what NBA scouts saw, so much talent that they bypassed the domestic option in the draft and went after them as a priority. Every single one was considered a great talent in their leagues before the NBA with the exception of Parker. He was an up and coming young french player. Once again i am showing you the premise of my position, that top players are top players, not because where they play but because they are simply talented players with skills and abilities desirable to top leagues.
1) I don't do point and counterpoint all by myself. You have to do some of the work, my friend. 2) What's quoted doesn't matter. MLS players still fared alot better at the World Cup than their European counterparts. One player doesn't unravel an entire argument. Unless you're an idiot, in which case let's talk about Reyna or Keller or McBride, see where we are in this one-man-destroys-MLS argument. But hey, you don't need my validation.
The European market is distorted by the Bosman decision. Non-EU players with distant relatives in Europe who can forge passports well have a distinct advantage over countries that actually keep records.
1. I have to do some of the work? That's your justification for backing a patently misleading statement? You need to move to politics, only there would that logic make sense. 2. European players were bigger disappointments? Well, lets think on why that might be..... Only 1 MLS based player played in all three games - LD. He was crap. 2 MLS players got 0 minutes (Ching and Albright). Mastroeni was sent off and didn't manage 90 mins combined at the WC. Pope was red carded too. O'Brien lasted 45 minutes. Wolff mustered a whole 14 and was consequently turned down for a UK WP. Eddie Johnson's supposed coming out party was a flop-tacular with only 75 mins and 0 goals to show for it. That cost him his big money move to europe (as only nibbles came in). Ben Olsen was serviceable in his half game, but not really noticeable. That only leaves Conrad and Dempsey who, yes, had good showings. So what these facts show is that MLS players hardly played a part at the WC - thus it's not entirely surprising that the majority of the failures were European based because - amazingly - the majority of the starts went to those players. So to suggest MLS players were the best ignores the follwoing summarized points : - LD was crap - Both red cards went to MLS players. - Only LD played the equivalent of 2 games at the WC. The rest were less than 151 minutes (Dempsey). Lalas's point, and your gloating of it, was just simply well off the mark....not because COnrad and Dempsey had bad WC (they didn't, they showed very well and that they are quality players who could fit in at the highest level) but because he used that fact to insinuate that the entire MLS corps were somehow the stars of the show. The WC was an outright failure for the USMNT, and really the failure was from top to bottom.
Yes I know that Tim Howard is at Everton. However he is on loan and Richard Wright does have the number one jersey (only in number), a lot of people did were afraid he was going to be back on the bench. Howard has been top notch to start this season shows every intention of being their number one keeper and looks like Wright will have to enjoy only his friendlys and Carling Cup outings. I didn't mean to say Troy Perkins for the National team. The point that I wanted to make was that its up to the coach to decide who plays based upon their ability and how they fit into the team, not their club standing. This is why Casey Keller kept the job when Tottenham dropped him, went to Southampton and then off to the Bundesliga. I think that its great that MLS can develop their players to the point that other leagues come knocking for talent. Dempsey for example showed what an MLS player is capable of at the word cup, he put on a show against Italy. I knew he was good from watching him with the revs, but I had never seen him stand out as the best player on the pitch like that, let alone agasint a team like Italy. Charlton saw a player that could play with heart against big teams, I am disapointed they did not value him higher, however I am more disapointed that no other clubs were bidding against them and jacking up the price.
What I thought reading this was how NBA basketball is differnt to international. That got me thinking to how I have allways said that the English style of games didn't work well with internationals. I have my opinion on what the MLS style of game is, althought I do think its one of the harder leagues to label with a style, differnt conferences in differnt american sports like basketball and hockey are pretty differnt in style. This was the excuse for the basketball guys, which was pretty legitimate but I haven't heard it in soccer by anyone.