Neymar Jrs playmaking in 2019/20 This is almost just a compilation of Neymar creating goalscoring opportunities for Kylian Mbappe The world and everyone in it can call Neymar Jr selfish except for Mbappe
The problem with selecting Neymar as the greatest PSG player of all-time, is that I get the feeling that the perception of football fans in general, from the outside looking-in, and the sentiment of the fans that live and breath the club, may conflict with one another. I am of the opinion that Neymar played the best individual level of football out of any PSG player (admittedly very low in number) that I've personally seen, but I think that alone cannot carry him in this particular debate. 'I Feel Very Proud' - Raí on Being Voted the Best Player in PSG's History - PSG Talk Is it possible for a player to be the greatest player of all-time for a club, if the supporters of that club doesn't feel that way? Isn't he at that point just the player to have shown the best level of performance at that club? Fan sentiment cannot decide everything, but for me, it is not a non-factor that can be brute-force overriden via good ratings on Sofascore or in football magazines. There is not a clear winner that checks high across every single box, and for me Neymar is closer to the answer of the player reaching the highest-ceiling individually-speaking, at PSG, rather than being the greatest. With the recent UEFA Champions League success, it is difficult to imagine Neymar's legacy at PSG aging better with time. Relationships with the fans matter in terms of club legacy, for example, Luis Figo's individual level of play was brilliant at Barcelona, but his legacy at the club cannot be carried by his absolute level on the pitch. Every club has its own unique cultural take, expectations, and perception of what it is to be a great player for the club.
How much importance do you attach to that poll? Ronaldinho was voted the third best player in PSG history and Neymar was in 6th place There is literally no objective analyst IMO who would even dare to suggest Ronaldinho won more,played longer,scored more,assisted more,dribbled more or reached a higher peak at PSG than Neymar did Important things with polls is you have to look at the placements of everyone in them Rai might be a reasonable candidate for best PSG player ever Safet susic might be a reasonable candidate for second best PSG player Ronaldinho in third calls into question the legitimacy of the entire vote I don’t always agree with @Wiliam Felipe Gracek when he launches his crusade against Ronaldinho. but when I see polls like this it makes me actually think that he may be onto something here Ronaldinho at PSG would not survive the Twitter era. In fact he would be a living meme. inconsistency is the biggest ‘crime’ today and he was the personification of that https://www.theguardian.com/football/2003/feb/09/sport.comment6
Number of good games played, and number of successful dribbles might mean very little in these polls. They are their own separate list. Again, if Sol Campbell had more week-to-week excellent performances for Tottenham Hotspur than most at the club, it doesn't mean it'll get reflected in fan appreciation polls. Greatest player of a club, that is not appreciated by the fans, doesn't feel quite right. I am not discussing the precise number of excellent games put forth by these players, while they wore the jersey. Ronaldinho did not cost PSG an arm and a leg, and a promise of a potentially new lineage of Europe-conquering dynasty. He was an exciting young Brazilian prospect that had relatively lower expectations, and his care-free attitude may be met with different responses, than if Neymar were to display them. Again, I am not a PSG fan, but it feels weird to speak on behalf of the fans, based purely on who I think was good on the pitch, and how often I managed to catch them do it, at the time, or retroactively. I would say the poll is an accurate reflection of the positive fan sentiment generated by the overall contributions left by the players, compared to the initial expectations and invested resources. I wouldn't use the list as an accurate reflection of their successful dribbles, as I wouldn't use any Barcelona fan vote as a proxy of the number of successful dribbles made by Luis Figo during his time there. As for its importance, it depends how you frame the question. You have chosen your own criteria, but that is not how I would define a club's greatest player, there is a delicate cultural tone for various clubs that I wouldn't pretend to know for all clubs. The fan re-interpretation of these player's legacies would be its own column for me, that feeds into a bigger picture. Otherwise, like you say, players like Eric Cantona, would be just another player that abused lower levels of play, and came in at the right time. There is a place and time for absolute performance measurement, and I don't think greatness for a club is one of them.
This covers for me the entire spectrum of greatness Ronaldinho at PSG isn’t even remotely comparable to Neymar at PSG in any of those categories You mention Eric cantona but you did not take any of the following into consideration Eric cantona is one of the highest peak goalscorers in Manchester United history https://www.redcafe.net/threads/man...sts-1987-88-today.396084/page-4#post-16444878 Eric cantona is one of the highest assisters in Manchester United history(peak and longevity) https://www.redcafe.net/threads/man...sts-1987-88-today.396084/page-4#post-16444878 Eric cantona topped the charts for premier league assists multiple times when he was a Manchester United player https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/goal_assist Eric cantona finished on the ballon dor podium when he was a Manchester United player https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Ballon_d'Or Eric cantona won the league with Manchester United in literally every single season he was not banned Eric cantona was voted the best player in a English premier league season Ronaldinho was none of those things and did none of those things for PSG or in ligue 1 Find me one poll from 2003 the year he left PSG that listed Ronaldinho a top 10 player in PSG history? You will never find it in a billion years All of this carefree attitude stuff,aura and cultural value nonsense should have no bearing on the legacy of a player His so called beautiful “smile” and “teeth” were also not a get out of jail free card in 2003 Bad teeth only become amazing to look at when you are producing the goods of the pitch and he was not producing those goods It’s only a matter of time anyways This new generation of young players particularly the ballers like Yamal,Doku,Palmer etc grew up idolising Neymar the exact same way many players grew up idolising Ronaldinho in the previous era Just wait for the dust to settle and for Neymars injuries and partying to be forgotten By 2035 provided no new ‘phenomenon’ joins PSG I guarantee you that Neymar will have the same ‘religious following’ at PSG that Ronaldinho had at Barcelona for the best part of 20 years
I think you get what I'm saying, and want to be argumentative for the sake of it. Luis Figo would have wonderful assist and dribble tallies at Barcelona also. Fan sentiment when discussing the greatest player for a club should have absolutely zero value for you, but legacy at a club is reflected by fan sentiment to a larger degree than you would like to admit or agree to. I am including that dimension for why people may arrive at different conclusions. I didn't know you felt so strongly about the topic, I'll return when I have thoughts and data to add for your very specific definition for the greatest PSG player of all time.
Every single thing Luis Figo did at Barcelona is discredited and devalued by Barcelona fans for one reason and one reason only He is blacklisted and erased I think you know the reason for this is but we can play games here and pretend as if that reason also applies to Neymar at PSG The funny thing is every single player you have mentioned defined the history of their clubs in a meaningful way except Ronaldinho at PSG I am making the claim that Ronaldinho definitely doesn’t even deserve a place amongst PSGs top 20 players of all time that I have looked into I clarified the reason I included him in my poll in the OP I am also now making the claim that Kvaratskhelia who made his PSG debut in January is objectively a superior PSG legend to Ronaldinho and that isn’t something that should even be controversial
I waited 18 years for this moment — crying in the Allianz Arena as PSG finally became champions of Europe ❤️ I don't even know how to start this. I’ve been a PSG fan since I was 11. I’m 29 now. I grew up in a tiny suburb outside Paris where watching PSG on Canal+ was the only escape from a lot of tough days. No Champions League nights back then, just mid-table battles and Pauleta carrying us on his back. Football was my anchor. PSG was my identity. I remember being bullied in school and coming home, blasting "Ô Ville Lumière" in my room like it was a shield. I used to dream that one day I’d be there, in the stadium, when it finally happened. Fast forward to Saturday night — I'm standing in the Allianz Arena. It’s the 85th minute, we’re up 5-0, and I just completely broke down. Tears, shaking, all of it. A guy next to me — never met him before — hugged me and said “On l’a fait, frère.” I couldn’t even speak. I just kept nodding. I don’t care what people say about oil money or "plastic fans." We’ve suffered. We’ve watched humiliations in Barcelona and Manchester. We’ve been laughed at for years. But this… this was ours. The atmosphere was unreal. Thousands of us singing "Ô Ville Lumière" in full voice, flares lighting up the stands, strangers dancing together like family. It felt like Paris took over Munich, like the soul of the city had exploded inside that stadium. I called my dad after the final whistle. He was crying too. We used to watch PSG together when I was a kid. We always said, “One day.” That day was on Saturday. To anyone who’s ever been told your club will never win, or that your support doesn’t count — I swear, moments like this make every bit of the pain worth it. Allez Paris. Pour toujours. 12 min video that shows the atmosphere in the allianz arena:
Ronaldinhos entire PSG career Competitions taken into consideration Ligue 1 UEFA Cup He didn’t play in the champions league for PSG so I’m forced to substitute it with the UEFA Cup 20 goals + 16 assists 4669 minutes(52 matches) 0.69 goals+ assists per 90 Neymar Jr 2017/18 competitions taken into consideration Ligue 1 Champions league 25 goals + 16 assists 2427 minutes played(26 matches) 1.57 goals+ assists per 90 Dinho cant touch him
Ronaldinho Gaucho ...== ...media product from Nike , CBF, Barcelona , PSG , Ac milan , Fifa .. 50 millions Of Views ... fans of Internet .. "! dribbling skills ... generation that was born between 1994 and 1998 nowadays they are with 31 years old and between 27 years old ... i know them ... they are acting at FaceBook Brazil and You tube Brazil ... For me honestly ... people that don't understand anything about professional football.. just pure entertainment no Brazil ... falamos Fans de Firulas ... ! e alienados no geral ..
I don’t always agree with @Wiliam Felipe Gracek when he launches his crusade against Ronaldinho. but when I see polls like this it makes me actually think that he may be onto something here Ronaldinho at PSG would not survive the Twitter era. In fact he would be a living meme. inconsistency is the biggest ‘crime’ today and he was the personification of that Did you know that Ronaldinho has no goals, assists, pre-assists or tackles in major Finals? like UEFA Champions League, World Cup, Copa America, Libertadores, Club World Cup Final , UEFA Super Cup Final etc.etc,..etc. that is, in C1 or Top Level "maximum" competitions
I think you are trying to twist words into my mouth, whatever games you assume I'm doing, you sure do enjoy playing yours. Again, to reiterate, I'm mentioning another metric that may play against Neymar once factored in, not vouching for its ability to replace all other factors. There is an entire spectrum from religious levels of worship, to mild support, to mild disdain, all the way down to intense hatred. From my uneducated guess, I would say Neymar's body of work might be less appreciated by PSG fans, than from a neutral perspective. Of course, Luis Figo was selected as an extreme example of why fan-sentiment can override the performances of a player that maybe be chosen as the best in terms of his overall body of work during his stay there. If it is not relevant at all, the debates for other clubs swings wide open also. There are other factors at play, that was the argument I was trying to make. Not that Neymar is hated as much as Sol Campbell or Luis Figo, not that Ronaldinho's level of fan-adulation is an accurate representation of his OPTA dribble statistics or assists. Once factored in, his body of work alone might not be enough against other candidates. Just like Rai's level of fan-appreciation might not be sufficient to override all other factors. To delete its relevancy to zero is your game, but don't try to sound like I'm vouching for Ronaldinho as the third best player in terms of goals and assists. I won't press on this issue any further, but fan-sentiment does impact a player's legacy at a club. Picking apart Ronaldinho's on-field statistics merely shows the juxtaposition, and his lack of other metrics and credentials. As you have already done, there are already impressive statistics such as Desire Doue being directly involved in three goals in the UEFA Champions League final for the first time in decades. I'm sure you can find endless lists of statistical factoids that can make the fan-made list look ridiculous, but it is still a matter of concern for me if we try to make the absolute and all-encompassing statement regarding the issue. Otherwise we can negate all emotions and try to stick purely to the on-field merits of Sol Campbell as one of the greatest Tottenham Hotspur centre-backs of all-time, or Luis Figo as one of the greatest modern day Barcelona legends. What game are we playing here? As for statistical merit, especially within the latter stages of the UEFA Champions League, that counts against Zlatan Ibrahimovic, PopFoot counted direct goal-involvements from quarter-final onwards. 1920391583007908003 is not a valid tweet id Desire Doue makes an immediate entrance this season with 4 (3 in the finals alone), and Ousmane Dembele actually ranks first of all-time with 8 goal-involvements (he added 1 in the second leg versus Arsenal, and 2 in the finals, since May 2025) putting him first overall.
There is no meaningful metric in which Ronaldinho historically leads as a PSG player. None The best thing I could find for him was Dbs calcio ranking him the highest Ligue 1 player in 2001/02 ESM awards him 0 monthly selections for that season That suggests to me he excelled for one season in a league nobody at that time cared about He does not have any champions league performances to fall back on at PSG and his UEFA Cup record was completely mediocre. He finished 12th place in the 2002 ballon That was the year Brazil won the World Cup The World Cup can propel a non competitive player during the regular club season to the ballon dor shortlisted player In fact the player who won the 2002 ballon dor was a player who hardly even played club football That is not a mere coincidence and that was also the observation of Johan Cruyff in 2002 So neither do the ballon dor rankings help Ronaldinho He was a mediocre goalscorer in a very unremarkable era of goalscorers in Ligue 1 Ligue 1 2001/02 He was a average assister in a very unremarkable period of playmakers in ligue 1 So we can talk about Sol Campbell,Eric cantona,Luis Figo,Doue etc Whoever you want The fact remains the placement of Ronaldinho in that PSG poll is completely bogus and it is completely indefensible Desire Doue may end up being one of the very best players of his generation Or the CL final played last week may be the highlight of his career with everything going downhill from that point onwards How ever his career pans out he will always be remembered for what he did and Ronaldinho over the course of his 2 seasons at PSG never produced even 1/10th of what Doue did in one single match You are trying to defend the indefensible when there is no need for that Now I think of it Ronaldinho was ranked 10th greatest player of all time just last month by the IFFHS So in the end I guess nobody should really be surprised he is ranked 3rd all time in the history of PSG(founded in the 1970s).
Desire Doue may end up as the best ever, but the fact of the matter is that his body of work within the latter stages of the UEFA Champions League already ranks amongst the best, especially if you put greater weighting towards the finals. This isn't a marker towards the brighter the future, it is right there staring you in the face. Ronaldinho being third in the fan vote doesn't justify him being third overall, just like Desire Doue having greater number of goal involvements in UEFA Champions League finals than any PSG player in history as of right now (not the future, right now) doesn't already establish him as the greatest ever for the club, by extrapolating the results of that particular metric to every single possible measure of assessment. There are other metrics at play, but if I were to completely dismiss performances in the biggest stages possible, because I don't like Desire Doue being at the top already, it wouldn't be right. That vote isn't even the fully complete assessment of PSG fan sentiment, it may be influenced by many factors, including the demographic of the voters, timing of the poll. But it is a metric nonetheless. You are turning this into a discussion about Ronaldinho, when there is one metric that paints him in a good light, and that would be akin to me freaking the hell out over Desire Doue, and forcing you to a toss-up between calling him the best PSG player ever, or saying performances UEFA Champions League finals shouldn't count at all. Again don't twist my words, I said it is possible for fans to love Ronaldinho more than Neymar, and when that is pushed towards its absolute limit, like Luis Figo, it can negate the best quality of work. I said there is a large chance that Neymar fan appreciation, may not match the level of performance on the pitch, and in a discussion where there is no clear-cut winner that dominates every single metric, that can matter. Or you can continue your parade against Ronaldinho, I really couldn't care less. This is more of a passion project for you, and I'm just here forced to reply to it.
I never created this poll to decide or identify who loves who more This is not a dating or match making show All I want to know (from posters who actually do know) is who are the greatest players in PSG history and why those players are the greatest if you can’t articulate the why then there is frankly no conversation to be had here There is no fan with common sense who would suggest that the player with the most direct goal involvements in a major final is by default either the best or one of the best in the history of the club Geoff hurst is proof of that What the hell does doue have to do with Ronaldinho anyways? You have still not established the link You also still haven’t identified a single meaningful metric where Ronaldinho leads or is even in contention for the lead.
Posting a statistic about UEFA Champions League finals, doesn't mean I need to either justify everything about Desire Doue and engage in meaningless debate that has a clear conclusion (not the greatest), or admit the metric of finals performance is completely irrelevant. Likewise, I can post a metric of fan sentiment without trying to put forth some ridiculous argument about Ronaldinho being third overall to match that precise ranking in terms of fan sentiment. If you dismiss the premise entirely, then go ahead, but I think you were clearly itching for a debate with a clear conclusion that everyone knew beforehand (gasp, Ronaldinho isn't the greatest PSG player, he is just liked better than Neymar according to a poll in 2020). I think I'm done with your bad faith arguments. Bye.
If you don’t believe a poll has any real merit then it begs the question why do you post it here? And you are misrepresenting your own poll Your poll does not suggest Ronaldinho is the greatest in PSG history Also your framing of my position is a straw man I am not debating whether Ronaldinho is 1 In fact I’m challenging the idea that he’s top 3. His placement as 3rd all time is what I’m dismissing as a completely indefensible position You haven’t provided a single counter argument to any of the statistics I have presented besides hiding behind online polls I even gave you ‘ammunition’ to use(ie Ronaldinho being ranked as the best Ligue 1 player by dbs calcio)and you persist in talking nonsense here about Luis Figo, Eric cantona and Doue who have absolutely nothing to do with this subject
What makes a true legend at PSG? To me, it’s not just about talent, it’s about what the player brings to the club and his connection with the fans. The first true legend, in that sense, is Luis Fernandez. He helped PSG reach the top of French football, winning its first Ligue 1 title as a player and later its first European title as a coach in 1996. A man deeply loving the club. Yet the biggest legend remains to me Rai. He led the team during its fiercest rivalry with Marseille and lifted that first European trophy. His bond with the fans was immense. Then the rise of Ligue 1 was violently stopped by the Bosman ruling. French clubs pay massively more taxes than other European clubs, and could no longer compete financially. Abramovich and Perez started building the super clubs we have now. Pauleta stood out in that era, fighting hard for the club in a period of poor management. As Ligue 1 was basically doomed to become a development league, Qatar came in to PSG with the hope that it would save French football, but with contrasted results at first. Qatar's intent was to replace the existing fan culture with a cleaner global branding. PSG ultras were pushed out, mercenaries started coming in. Players like Marquinhos remained connected, but Ibra, for all his impact, never truly embraced the club spirit. Cavani, on the other hand, left a lasting impression. There was later the lost years when Qatar went totally wild in buying superstars. Mbappé was very popular at the beginning, but he slowly got involved much beyond to pitch to try building a team entirely to his service, the club was losing itself. Even though at least PSG fans were accepted again. Only recently did PSG seem to find itself again. Finally realizing the strength of Parisian and French talent, the club shifted direction. Luis Enrique and Luis Campos built a real team. Young, connected, full of identity. And Marquinhos, loyal through it all, was the perfect captain to lead this transformation. For me, PSG today is more meaningful than ever, not just because we’re winning, but because we’ve reconnected with who we are. This is something very emotional to me as it goes way beyond even my wildest dreams. Paris est magique.