Greatest peak seasons ever?

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Gregoire, Nov 13, 2013.

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Greatest players peak (one season)?

  1. Pele

    11 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Maradona

    3 vote(s)
    9.7%
  3. Messi

    13 vote(s)
    41.9%
  4. Garrincha

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Ronaldo9

    2 vote(s)
    6.5%
  6. Ronaldinho

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Zico

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Cruyff

    2 vote(s)
    6.5%
  9. other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord

    Probably it will be duly ignored anyway but one should compare like with like (not everyone plays Champions League after all; plays the same amount of games or meets the same competition at international level). When restricted to the top five leagues only it was this (cut-off point is 11 assists; which is about 66% of the highest number):

    Ozil - 17 assists in 35 games
    Messi - 16 assists in 37 games
    Hazard - 16 assists in 38 games
    Di Maria - 15 assists in 23 games
    David Silva - 15 assists in 36 games
    Valencia - 13 assists in 27 games
    Menez - 13 assists in 33 games
    Valbuena - 13 assists in 33 games
    Mata - 13 assists in 34 games
    Pirlo - 13 assists in 37 games
    Miccoli - 12 assists in 28 games
    Ribery - 12 assists in 32 games
    Arango - 12 assists in 34 games
    Navas - 12 assists in 37 games
    C. Ronaldo - 12 assists in 38 games
    Adebayor - 11 assists in 33 games
    Dani Alves - 11 assists in 33 games
    Song - 11 assists in 34 games
    Feret - 11 assists in 35 games
    Nene - 11 assists in 35 games
    Giovinco - 11 assists in 36 games


    And even then, as this list shows, not every league is comparable (and not every team is comparable).
     
  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Maybe there was a slight difference in playing style but in both seasons he had about as much goals as assists (thus for every goal an assist). In later years he tended to have more assists as goals (in one year almost twice as much assists as goals), he clearly played a deeper average position (even playing with #6 in some games).

    I checked it now for 1971-72 and 1973-74 again.
     
  3. Blancone

    Blancone Member

    Oct 26, 2013
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Zidane in 1998 should be nominated
     
  4. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Thanks - I started to have a quick look again at your Cruyff thread earlier today but didn't come across the info for assists for the Netherlands in years 1971-1974 which could be relevant I guess. I think it is in there somewhere though? I'm not sure if you know off the top of your head?

    Including his Netherlands and Ajax goals also improves his 73/74 goals tally of course. I think his goals and assists total per game is likely to stack up well in that season (not that those stats are the be all and end all about a players performances anyway of course; even for a predominantly attacking player).
     
  5. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Taking top 5 from that:

    11-12 Assists (Euro 12 included, Copa America 11 not included)

    wide rules

    41 Messi (36 for Barcelona, 5 for Argentina)
    37 Özil (29 for Real Madrid, 8 for Germany)
    26 Silva (21 for ManC, 5 for Spain)
    21 Hazard (21 for Lille, 0 for Belgium)
    21 Di Maria (17 for Real Madrid, 4 for Argentina)

    Like I said, no-one was really close Messi or Özil 11-12 assists.
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I see you conveniently ignore the point I made.

    In how many games did they make the assists?
     
  7. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    What's there to ignore? Do you understand the concept of top scorer, or top assister? It doesn't involve how many games played.

    Never mind that more you play, less overall energy or form you have per game. Which is better: 39 assists in 40 games, two games in a week, or 20 assists in 20 games, 1 game in a week, in the same period of time?
     
    Pipiolo repped this.
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    You are good in evading questions. On the previous page I asked for a source where those 41 assists are stated (and no, not your 'king football' fansite). I didn't get an answer.
    Now I ask in how many games that was and I get a different reply too.

    For the record: players who play fewer games can also get 'rusty'. Some benefit from playing a lot of games (hence, Cronaldo rarely skips one). However, it has a limit. Check a modern physiology book and you will read that two games per week is no problem. It is very well possible to recover from a game within three days.
    However, problems will arise when a player needs to play three games a week. Then they play on borrowed time, no matter how durable one is. In that case there is (likely) too little time for full recovery.
    Really, two games a week is (still) no problem at all and not exhausting.

    Though, you're right that it is statistically more reliable to have 20 assists in 40 as 10 assists in 20 games.
     
  9. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    You're such a illogical douche. You simply fail to understand simplest of logical expressions. Fine I extend my original point to accommodate your obsession. Here with per games.

    11-12 Assists (Euro 12 included, Copa America 11 not included)

    wide rules

    41 Messi (36 for Barcelona, 5 for Argentina), 69 games 0,59 apg
    37 Özil (29 for Real Madrid, 8 for Germany), 64 games 0,58 apg
    26 Silva (21 for ManC, 5 for Spain), 64 games 0,41 apg
    21 Hazard (21 for Lille, 0 for Belgium), 57 games 0,37 apg
    21 Di Maria (17 for Real Madrid, 4 for Argentina), 38 games 0,55 apg

    So not only was Messi the top assister, he had the best rate, of the top 5.
     
    Pipiolo repped this.
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    And you are the master chief manipulator and stats magician.

    Fair enough.
     
  11. Pirvela

    Pirvela New Member

    Nov 17, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    List will have to add Ronaldo 2013
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I found it for Barcelona and national team in 1973-74 (but excludes penalties drawn). By using the search function. I have to look further for Ajax, in the games he played for them in 1973-74.

    This is for Barcelona (credits to Vegan10 ofc).

    1973/74
    La Liga: 26 games - 16 goals + 14 assists
    Friendlies: 12 games - 8 goals + 9 assists
    Total: 38 games - 24 goals + 23 assists

    National team:
    22. 22/08/1973 --- Netherlands – Iceland 5:0 [2] [WC-qualifiers] 1 assist
    23. 29/08/1973 --- Iceland – Netherlands 1:8 [2] [WC-qualifiers] 2 assists
    24. 12/09/1973 --- Norway – Netherlands 1:2 [1] [WC-qualifiers] 1 assist
    25. 10/10/1973 --- Netherlands – Poland 1:1 [Friendly] 1 assist
    26. 18/11/1973 --- Netherlands – Belgium 0:0 [WC-qualifiers]
    27. 27/03/1974 --- Netherlands – Austria 1:1 [Friendly]
    28. 26/05/1974 --- Netherlands – Argentina 4:1 [Friendly] 2 assists
    29. 15/06/1974 --- Uruguay – Netherlands 0:2 [WC, 1st grp stage]
    30. 19/06/1974 --- Netherlands – Sweden 0:0 [WC, 1st grp stage]
    31. 23/06/1974 --- Netherlands – Bulgaria 4:1 [WC, 1st grp stage] 1 assist
    32. 26/06/1974 --- Netherlands – Argentina 4:0 [2] [WC, 2nd grp stage] 1 assist
    33. 30/06/1974 --- East-Germany – Netherlands 0:2 [WC, 2nd grp stage]
    34. 03/07/1974 --- Netherlands – Brazil 2:0 [1] [WC, 2nd grp stage] 1 assist
    35. 07/07/1974 --- West-Germany – Netherlands 2:1 [WC, final]

    14 games, 8 goals, 10 assists (excludes unofficial test games).

    So excluding Ajax period and excluding test games it becomes: 52 games, 32 goals, 33 assists (penalties drawn not included).


    [I'm not saying it is the best season ever, dunno honestly, but you asked]
     
  13. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Thanks, Puck. I thought you'd have it recorded somewhere. Taking out the club friendlies it is still 27 goals in 42 games (including 3 in 2 for Ajax according to Wikipedia I think) and notably at least 24 assists in 40 games for Barcelona and the NT. So 0.64 gpg, and approximately 0.6 assists per game.
     
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #39 PuckVanHeel, Nov 17, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
    Found it. Excluding the club friendlies, like you do, make it easier. For some it is possible to find (he had for example 2 goals and 2 assists in the farewell game of Sjaak Swart against Tottenham Hotspur). But not for all friendlies it is easy to find and cross-check the assists.

    In the first round league match against Groningen (0:4 win) he scored 2 goals and assisted the first goal of Haan. The fourth goal by Suurbier was an assist of Keizer. This was easy to find and check.

    The other game against FC Amsterdam resulted in a 6:1 win. Cruijff assisted the 1:0 (G. Mühren), the 2:0 (Krol) and the 4:1 (Neeskens). Cruijff himself scored the 6:1 in the 73th minute and was immediately subbed out. At that time (Sunday) the transfer was still not entirely certain, it became certain and a fact at the following Thursday. So, his last touch of a match-ball turned out to be a goal.
    The 3:1 was a penalty kick by Gerrie Mühren after Rep was hacked down in the penalty area. The 5:1 was a goal by Suurbier, a one-two and assist of Haan.

    Funnily, Groningen filed an official complaint at the FA because it was in their opinion unfair how they had to deal with Cruijff while the other clubs will not face him. LOL

    So, in these two games 3 goals and 4 assists.

    Thus that makes (excluding club friendlies): 42 games, 27 goals and 28 assists in 1973-74 (penalties drawn not counted, and rebounds not counted too).

    My problem was for finding the club friendlies numbers, but when excluding it, this is the result then, I think.
     
  15. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    LMAO, leadleader and you are the only posters who don't let Puck run his usual shenanigans on this board.

    What's the difference between a wide assist and a strict one?
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Nonsense seeks nonsense. Physically there is really no significant difference between playing once or twice a week.
     
  17. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I agree overall although if a footballer plays twice as many games the possibilites for a rough tackle injuring them increase.

    I was LMAO at how Badabing is quick on the trigger against you :D
     
  18. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Thanks, good info.

    I think though the info on those club friendlies that Vegan posted plus the Ajax ones you mention is interesting and in some cases they were likely 'proper' first team games, it makes sense to count up the goals and assists in the 'competitive' games for comparison purposes even if the number of games played is lower than other players in that case. International friendlies were always and are counted as full International games of course.
     
  19. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Yes and he is the BEST in this ERA ...

    Messi still got 200 more assists to reach Maradona and then Pele career ... though ..
    Messi is 26 now .. and ONLY IF he will play 15more years???
     
  20. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Wide rules include additionally

    + Rebound (goal, post, player)
    + Own Goal
    + Caused penalty if not scored by the same player
     
    Pipiolo repped this.
  21. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    How many assists did Maradona and Pele have in official games?
     
  22. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    They both had like 300+ assists career for both clubs and NT.

    However, Messi with his last 6 top form level with Barca , he had already surpassed Maradona's club level at same age 26... and on the way to catch up Pele
     
  23. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Do you have links to those statistics?
     
  24. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I think we have Maradona's assist stats somewhere in this forum ....
    Our fellow Vegan should have most of that.

    For Pele I once had it (back from Brazil ) but I blew that lap top hard drive- along with many great videos of his 60s ... GOSH
     
  25. 621380

    621380 Member

    Feb 21, 2004
    germany
    #50 621380, Jan 4, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
    Gerd müller calendar year 1972 has scored 85 Goals in 60 games.....there is nothing manipulated for him in the balon dor Rating.......for the calendar year he has 13 assists in 34 Bundesliga games,3 assists in 6 europeancup games,( ignoring both games against Nicosia where the assisters are unknown)...2 assists in 7 NT games and 2 created Penaltys in 34 Bundesliga games..ignoring the german Cup and ligacup games where the assisters are unknown too...

    total 60 games,85 Goals,18 assists and 2 created Penaltys....105 Points of his Teams total 174 Goals.

    he directly has contributed for 60% of his Team Goals.....and good possible more....

    in the second half of 1971/72 Bundesliga season (important for balon dor 1972) he was phenomenal.....23 Goals,9 assists and 2 created Penaltys in 17 games..Bayern munich has turned a 3 Point Defizit against schalke 04 and won the Bundesliga title in the last and decisive game against schalke 04 in week 34 ..Bayern won 5:1 and was 3 Points ahead of schalke, winning the title.....müller 2 assists in this game for the 2:1 and 3:1, and without him no 1:0 lead ass well..

    Bayern munich has scored 54 Goals in this 17 games, müller directly contributed for 34 Goals (60%)..3 of this 54 Goals was owngoals of opponents..

    the runner up in the Bundesliga topscorer Rankings for the 1971/72 season was klaus fischer with 22 Goals in 29 games, he had 4 assists in 29 games for 26 Points ..5th ranked Jupp heynckes has scored 19 Goals in 31 games + 5 assists (24 Points)for the whole 1971/72 season..

    müller has outscored and outassistet this other famous german strikers in this 17 games alone...

    i think a Person with a bit logic understand müllers high ranking....

    2 Little examples....

    week 30....Bayern munich-Hamburg 4:3...müller 2 Goals,1 assist, 1 created penalty

    week 32...Bayern munich-Frankfurt 6:3...müller 3 Goals,2 assists



    NT games 1972

    hungary-germany 0:2 , müller 1 assist ...hungary 6th ranked in the world (friendly match)
    england-germany 1:3, müller 1 Goal,1 pre assist
    germany-England 0:0
    England was 3th ranked in the world...(quarterfinal games euro..)

    germany-sovietunion 4:1, müller 4 Goals....sovietunion 4th ranked in the world (friendly match)
    belgium-Germany 0:2, müller 2 Goals...belgium 15th ranked in the world (semifinal euro)
    germany-sovietunion 3:0 (brüssel) , müller 2 Goals ,sovietunion 4th ranked in the world...( final euro)
    Germany-swiss 5:1,müller 4 Goals,1 assist....swiss 31th ranked in the world..(friendly match)

    example ....
    cruijffs NT opponents 1972

    greece-netherland 0:5.....greece was 57th ranked in the world..(friendly match)
    CSSR-netherland 1:2....CSSR was 14th ranked in the world (friendly match)
    netherland-peru 3:0...peru 30th ranked in the world (friendly match)
    belgium-netherland 0:0.....wcq, belgium was 15th ranked in the world
    norway-netherland 1:2...wcq..norway was ranked between 75th-80th ranked in the world i think...

    european Cup games 1972

    steaua bucarest-Bayern munich 1:1, 1 Goal müller
    bayern-munich-steau bucarest 0:0....müllers away Goal was decisive
    bayern-munich-Glasgow rangers 1:1, müller 1 assist,hit the post with a Header...rainer zobel with a real owngoal in Minute 47 has played in the Cards for glasgow
    Glasgow-rangers.Bayern munich 2:0...Bayern eliminated....

    galatasaray Istanbul-Bayern munich 1:1, müller 1 Goal
    bayern-munich galatasaray Istanbul 6:0,müller 2 Goals,2 assists
    Bayern munich-Nicosia 9:0, müller 5 Goals , assisters unknown
    Bayern munich-Nicosia 4:0, müller 2 Goals, assisters unknown

    Bayern munich eliminated in quarterfinal german Cup against cologne (cologne 4th ranked Bundesliga)

    Bayern-cologne 3:0 ,first leg...müller 2 Goals
    cologne-Bayern 5:1,second leg, müller 1 Goal...

    Little Information about this 5:1 defeat...

    sepp maier was injured.....Manfred seyfert was muniche Goalkeeper...seyfert ,3 seasons with Bayern munich, 80 minutes played in this timespan of 3 seasons ...
    breitner with a stupid foul gifted cologne a Penalty....1:0 cologne
    kapellman broke Bayern munich Player sühnholz shine and calfbone in Minute 26....
    in a defending Action schwarzenbeck shot the ball against the leg of a teammate (owngoal) in Minute 49..2:0 cologne
    1 Minute later cologne scored the third Goal (Minute 50)....Prior or after this third Goal , bayern munichs goalkeper seyfert suffered 2 broken ribs and was substituted in Minute 51....Bayern munichs Amateur Goalkeeper schwalb entered the game ( he never has played minutes Prior for munichs first Team in a competive match)..he was straight welcomed coceeding a Goal in Minute 52...cologne in 4 minutes, 3 Goals scored under weired cicumstances..2 minutes later (Minute 54)Gerd müller scored a important away Goal, assist hoeness.....Advantage munich again.......cologne Player rupp in Minute 70 scored the 5:1...Bayern munich eliminated in german Cup...

    so far the famous Bayern dusel..lol.....and i think Gerd müller cant be blamed ....with 3 Goals in 2 german Cup games against a top 4 Bundesliga Team he did a very good Job..........
     
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