Greatest peak seasons ever?

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Gregoire, Nov 13, 2013.

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Greatest players peak (one season)?

  1. Pele

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  2. Maradona

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  3. Messi

    8 vote(s)
    53.3%
  4. Garrincha

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Ronaldo9

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  6. Ronaldinho

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Zico

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Cruyff

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Gregoire

    Gregoire Member

    Mar 22, 2011
    Who had greatest peak impact as a player in history? Top-5 or top-10 rating sccording to peak power (one season I think). In other words, who do you choose for winning most important tournament with random team?
    My take:
    1.Pele 62,63,64
    2.Maradona 86
    3. Messi 2011
    4. Ronaldo9 1997
    5. Cruyff 74
    6.Garrincha 62
    7. Best 68
     
  2. SirWellingtonSilva

    May 30, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    In the case of maradona can world cup 86 and serie a 87 be counted together? its not technically in the same season, but it is essentially in the same time span, basically one calendar year
     
  3. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    not really ...
    A calendar year 87 starts in September 1986 (after WC) to October 1987 according to Football.
    Now a "literally calendar" year by looking into "calendar": Jan 1987 (also after WC) to end Dec 1987.
     
  4. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Pele peak included 1958-59, and 1965-66
     
  5. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    According to my work on seasonal best player ever in http://xtrahistory.blogspot.com/2013/01/world-annual-awards-of-century.html, I rate this (Sorry for not have time to explain all ratings once again) ;

    The Greatest Footballers’ Year of All-Time (All Competition Levels combined)

    1. Maradona 1986
    2. Garrincha 1962
    3. Pele 1963
    4. Johan Cruyff 1972
    5. Zico 1981
    6. Platini 1984
    7. Ronaldo 1997
    8. Lionel Messi 2012
    9. George Best 1968
    10. Alfredo Di Stefano 1957


    The Greatest Footballers’ a Domestic Season of All-Time

    1. Diego Maradona (1984 - 1985)
    2. Pele 1961
    3. Lionel Messi (2011 - 2012)
    4. Johan Cruyff (1971 - 1972)
    5. Garrincha 1962
    6. Diego Maradona (1979)
    7. Pele 1963
    8. Zico 1982
    9. Ronaldo (1996 - 1997)
    10. George Best (1967 - 1968)


    The Greatest Footballers’ an International Season of All-Time

    1. Pele 1962
    2. Johan Cruyff (1971 - 1972)
    3. Lionel Messi (2010 - 2011)
    4. Zico 1981
    5. Alfredo Di Stefano 1958
    6. Pele 1963
    7. Michel Platini (1984 - 1985)
    8. Franz Beckenbauer (1975 - 1976)
    9. Marco Van Basten (1988 - 1989)
    10. Zinedine Zidane (2001 - 2002)
     
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  6. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    1) Maradona 85-86 with WC86 appended

    2) Cruyff 71-72

    3) Garrincha 62

    4) Messi 10-11

    5) Pele 63

    6) DiStefano 56-57

    7) Platini 84-85 with Euro84 prefacing

    8) Puskas 49-50 with WC50 appended

    9) George Best 67-68

    10) Romario 93-94 with WC94 appended

    11) Van Basten 88-89 with Euro88 prefacing

    12) Eusebio 67-68
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord

    Very dubious list.
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I will not say something about the arbitrary ordering but:

    1967-68 was not Eusebio his best season. He had physical problems despite scoring a lot. I think his peak season (what that might be) was earlier.

    I believe Platini had a better form in 1983-84 as in 1984-85. Based on match ratings, goal record, form of team-mates etcetera. But that's my believe.

    Interesting that everyone sees 1971-72 as Cruijff his best season (which makes sense), despite ending fourth in de Adidas sponsored/manipulated Ballon d'Or of that year.

    I think Romario and Garrincha should not be in the list (thus not anywhere in the top 12).

    I also agree with the thought that Maradona received a higher peak and consistency over a prolonged period of time in 1984-85 as in 1985-86, despite the WC performance. See also how 1971-72 is singled out for Cruijff but not 1973-74, for example. Seen over a period of many months, 1984-85 was probably better.
     
  9. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Got to admit my first thought after reading Dearman's lists (good work again Dearman and I know you put a lot of time and research into these efforts) was that considering the reports about 73/74 on your Cruyff thread as well as the stats in that season that I felt that it could also be included for the best domestic season. Also, largely because of a great World Cup, maybe his 1974 could be in Dearman's top category.

    Anyway, all that combined together - I can see why Gregoire would have it in his opening post (73/74 maybe the most accurate if including the World Cup?).

    What do you think Puck? Maybe 71/72 and 73/74 should both be among the top choices?
     
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  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I find it hard to make an exact ranking. How to compare Pele playing in the early 60s in a entirely different time, with a modern player modified in high-tech laboratories? (I now exaggerate it a bit to illustrate my point) And so on.
    I feel though that Dearman ranks them based on status rather than actual level or dominance (my feeling), and I have serious question marks about how he rates some individual years in his link.

    That's why I did not try to make an own ranking. Though I feel that in a few cases the best season of a player was a different one as the one mentioned (hence I expressed my opinion on that one). And I also strongly feel that Garrincha and Romario should not be among the first 12 in any event.

    I agree by the way that Messi his best season thus far is 2010-11. He did not score as many goals as in later seasons, but was all-around better (more key-passes, through-balls for example) and that is what I personally prefer. So I had no remark about that one but it is a personal preference because his role was a bit different.

    Also difficult to say which years of Cruijff were individually the best because his role and default playing position changed too.
     
  11. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, I suppose more of a roaming playmaker in 73/74 as compared to 71/72 when he was more of a goalscorer (but still both aspects were to the fore in both periods).
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I think the differences in that aspect are small.

    I was more thinking of the difference with the late 60s like 1966-67 (when he scored the most goals of his entire career), when he was more of a traditional forward albeit not a static one and still running a lot (his liveliness and impatience was both a strength and weakness).

    Or the difference with later Barcelona years where he was in top shape again and still recognized/seen as the best player in the world, but played very often restricted defensive roles (because he was needed at those places for gaining a chance on success).

    This is ofc with more players the case. Even Maradona, I think, was in some periods at Napoli more of a forward as a midfielder and the other way around.
     
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  13. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Ah yes, I understand now the more clear differences you're referring to there.
     
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yes, and my thoughts are also related to seasons with a similar role/position (except Eusebio in 1967-68, who had big physical issues thus my doubts about this one). I.e. Platini in 1984-85 did not play a different game as in 1983-84; Maradona in 1984-85 not vastly different as in 1985-86 etcetera. Otherwise it becomes way more complicated (like stating that 2010-11 was the best one of Messi, which is ultimately also a subjective preference).
     
  15. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    #15 Dearman, Nov 16, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
    :geek: If I would have time I'll explain more.
     
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  16. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Please do if you get a chance, so I can perhaps tweak my list as well. I have considered an international tournament performance as part of the player's season, whether preceding it or ending it, depending on which season I deem as their peak. Am thinking about changing Eusebio to 65-66 with the WC at the end, and Cruyff to 73-74 with the WC at the end.
     
  17. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Messi 11-12 is pretty easily the best individual season of all time. Broke pretty much every record there is and was world's top scorer, assister and dribbler, which I don't think has ever happened before.
     
  18. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Not shining at the CA11 hurts his standing however.
     
  19. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well he was Argentina's best player, and would've been the player of the tournament if Argentina won the SO. Using team results as individual performances are always somewhat dubious.
     
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Where is it stated that he was the world's top assister?
     
  21. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Messi had 41 assists (wide rules) for club and country and Özil was second with 35. Or was there somebody else close of that?
     
  22. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    I also doubt where is a source to show Messi had 41 assists in 2011 - 2012 season even include NT competition.

    Wikipedia Spain shows he had 29 assists in all competitions and Messi made 9 assists in 2011 and only one assist in 2012 in which is highly possible to reduce less than 10 assists in range of 2011 - 2012 season. When plus it, the assist number should be less than 40 assists anyway.
     
  23. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    http://www.king-football.com/messi/barcelona_list.php

    Complete Messi statistics.

    36 assists for Barcelona and 5 for Argentina in 11-12. And that doesn't include Copa America.
     
  24. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Double checked stats from transfermarkt.

    11-12 Assists (Euro 12 included, Copa America 11 not included)

    wide rules

    41 Messi (36 for Barcelona, 5 for Argentina)
    37 Özil (29 for Real Madrid, 8 for Germany)

    strict rules

    33 Messi (29 for Barcelona, 4 for Argentina)
    30 Özil (25 for Real Madrid, 5 for Germany)

    I don't think anyone came close these two.
     
  25. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    11-12 Goals (Euro 12 included)

    82 (WR) Messi (73 (WR) for Barcelona, 9 for Argentina)
    69 Cronaldo (60 for Real Madrid, 9 for Portugal)

    11-12 Dribbles (OPTA league + champions league, top 5 countries)

    220 Messi
    160 Ribery
     

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