Greatest manager

Not sure if it's possible to name a single greatest manager. Those I would rate extremely highly would be:

Herbert Chapman - the first manager to win the English League with two different clubs, and he had revolutionary (at the time) ideas about the game.

Bobby Robson - a successful manager in four different countries and taking England to the World Cup semi-finals.

There's also a Hungarian guy, whose name I forget, who moved to Brazil in the late 40's / early 50's and developed the tactics used by Honved and Hungary in to the 4-2-4 used by the great Brazilian side of 58.

You can always make a claim for the likes of Emil Oestreicher (who presided over much of Real Madrid's success in the 50's following his spell at the legendary Honved side), but I tend to think that any good (and not neccessarily great) manager would have had success with the truly great teams.

 

Um, Bill Shankly, hello?

 

Shankly was an outstanding manager and he laid the foundations for Liverpool's phenomonal success, but he had only one club. Chapman, Robson, Ferguson, Capello, Clough, Bela Guttman and others have all proved successful at multiple clubs. And as such I would rate them ahead of him.

 

Sorry Ianman, it is Billy Shankly…!!! "I was made for Liverpool and Liverpool was made for me."

Billy couldn't be bought and wouldn't go chasing the money.
Face it why would he go to another club!!??

Second in this group has to be Bob Paisley. How many European cups did your group bring in in all the clubs they represented..?

 

Sir Matt Busby should get mentioned in this. Although, I'm sure that there are plenty of other more accomplished managers, even Sir Alex, but I thought he deserved a mention nonetheless.

 

Zenga.

 

Paisley inherited a great team - certainly he was incredibly successful, but it does not compare with building two multiple championship winning sides from struggling sides as Herbert Chapman did. Miguel Munoz's record of European wins is more impressive.

No-one seems to be putting forward a case for Shankly, simply saying that he is the best does not cut it. He won 6 trophies in over a decade. Ferguson won 6 trophies in 4 years, Jock Stein won 4 trophies in one year.

Far all that they did, I don't see how you can compare mangers who were successful at one club with managers who were successful at two or more (especially in different countries)

 

I'll make a case for Austrian Ernst Happel who won 10 league championships in four different countries (GER, HOL, BEL, AUT) + he also won the domestic cup in all those countries.

Good honours internationally as well:

European Cup winner with Feyenoord 1970
World Club Cup winner Feyenoord 1970

European Cup finalist with Club Bruges 1978
World Cup finalist with Holland 1978

European Cup winner with Hamburg 1983

 

I've looked a little into Bela Guttman, and I think he deserves some serious consideration.

Won league titles with 5 different clubs in 4 different countries:

Ujpest Dozsa (when Hungary was a real world power), Milan, Benfica (where he also won the European Cup against a Barcelona side containing Kubala, Kocsis, Czibor and Suarez), Porto and Penarol.

 

I wasn’t trying to compare them at all I was just stating who was the best. Jumping around from one club to another with no loyalties doesn’t make a manager.

Because he was loyal to his club, his city, and his team makes him a lessor manager in your eyes.

Shanks started with a different brand of football a free flowing, fast paced, passing game with the overlapping backs that took the rest of the world by surprise and a long time to catch up. And he stayed with them.

Looking up records on the internet doesn't make your case anymore than saying if a man jumps countries and clubs every couple of years, he's great.

Matt Busby certainly belongs in the great category, Oh sorry he only managed one club.

 

I'd say Shankly is the greatest manager ever though I may be a wee bit biased. Not only was he a great manager, his influence lived on through the Boot Room and ensured that Liverpool was the dominant English club of the 70s and 80s.

I rate Busby highly too. He had to rebuild Man U almost from scratch after the Munich tragedy and turned them into European champions. No small feat. Busby is the reason Man U is as big as it is right now.

Other managers may have been successful, but Shankly and Busby are part of a select group of managers whose influence live on to this day.

 

You can make a good case for Michels. What I think seperates him from the pack is that he was both an important inovator and a winning coach. And at both club and international level. He has a European Cup with Ajax (and built the system that brought them three straight), a World Cup final in '74 and the '88 European Championship. He also did well at Barca (the first time, any way). And the generation gap-the style of the early 70's Ajax to the Dutch side w/ Gullit and Van Basten. Not an easy task by any means.

So, if your criteria is: inovation, league, European club, and international success, the room aint that crowded.

 

Before taking over Liverpool, Shankly had 4 jobs in 7 years without any notable success. By your own arguement this is to his detriment.

That said, I don't think having multiple clubs makes anone a lesser manager, I just believe that being successful at two (or more) clubs is worth more than being successful at one. Herbert Chapman took two mediocre clubs (Huddersfield and Arsenal) and turned them into teams that won three successive league championships.

Shankly is certainly one of the greatest managers of all time, but for me the ability to succeed in more than one enviroment is paramount in determining the greatest, and Shankly has not proved that he could do that (but that is not syaing he could not have),

 

Bruce Arena

 

This thread needed a little humour..!!!

 

Christian Gross obviously.

 

I didn't realise he managed Madrid in the 50's.

 

Down here in 'Bama there is only the great Paul "Bear" Bryant.

 

They were by far the best team I have ever seen, but I'm not going to argue with 5 consecutive European Cups.

 

Jock Stein

 

Damn, I was hoping to be the first one to mention him but you beat me to it.

I think he died the happiest man alive. Sad but true.