Greatest French Player , Michel Platini or Zinedine Zidane?

BBC article on Top 10 Euros midfielders. Zidane first, Platini fifth.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57351188

 

Since you’ve tagged me I’ll give it a go although you probably have covered the basics.

Let’s start with the elephant in the room and i.e. that there are quite a few people who don’t know what they’re talking about when commenting on Zidane’s career, so it’s good to take whatever is said with a grain of salt.

Zidane’s club career in the French league is mostly disregarded however that’s a disservice to his career IMHO since he developed as a player there and his play style in latter years has it’s roots in the time he spent there. He started out helping his club Cannes qualify for their first ever UEFA Cup campaign, was important in their run to the Coupe de France SF the year later when they were overwhelmed with the campaign featuring Continental and National level games, and he was probably injured near the end of the season when they were relegated. After that, next season he was the top scorer for his new club Bordeaux who had just returned from relegation, helped them qualify for the UEFA Cup every year henceforth and scored free kicks at a very high rate during his time with them. He almost helped them to the league title in the 93/94 season (they dropped off from the top of the table in the middle of the 2nd half of the season I believe). He was involved in a brawl and sidelined with a concussion in the 94/95 campaign which led to their poorer domestic placement. However, next season he helped them reach the UEFA Cup final scoring or assisting in almost every round (right from the start of the Intertoto Cup), that he featured in apart from the final when he was suspended in the first leg and they lost Lizarazu to injury early on in the 2nd leg. During this time he wasn’t physically as strong as in his peak, but his quality was still there and showed in many moments of brilliance. And while some of his great performances during his time in the French league, like the one vs champions Nantes in the derby at the start of the 94/95 season are available online, others like his performance vs Metz in 95/96 is completely missing.

As for the criticism he receives for his time with Juventus and Real Madrid, it’s mostly unwarranted since people just don’t want to talk about the circumstances at each club which impacted him both statistically and trophy wise.

At Juventus during his time, the club management continuously sold quality players while buying upcoming talent as replacements but never invested into top quality talent, unlike their competitors e.g. replacing Vieri with Inzaghi but not going for Ronaldo who joined Inter the same year. Individually, Zidane was also never made the one around whom the team was built, rather it was the golden boy Del Pedro who was provided such a platform. This happened although Zidane won more neutral club honors like ESM features and had higher Balon d’Or placements in even non NT tournament years. Only in his final season with them, post his exploits in Euro 00, did they try building around him but by then the team had already lost a lot of ground in terms of talent to its competitors. Something which they only rectified after selling Zidane and buying Thuram, Nedved and Buffon with the money, IIRC. As for the 98/99 season with Del Piero’s injury, Zidane played that campaign carrying multiple injuries himself and went for knee surgery at the end of it, while the rest of the squad had so many injuries that the club called up reserves and made panick buys in the winter transfer window. Also, even in Zidane’s first season with Juventus when they won the league comfortably, Del Piero wasn’t a regular starter, so the narrative that they suffered in the league due to his injury and Zidane being unable to bear the load is obviously faulty.

The issues at Real were more straightforward with the club management selling off/ loaning out key players like Makelele, the captain Hierro and Morientes while also getting rid of a coach like Del Bosque to make the team more marketable in 03/04, after Zidane had spent two relatively successful years there. This resulted in a burn out of the aging squad which otherwise was on track for a treble that year due to the momentum generated from earlier successful campaigns which gave the team a certain aura. There too he was not made the go-to-guy for the team, but it was done to keep all the egos in check. He even changed to playing on the left wing at age 31 after Beckham’s arrival, as Figo wouldn’t budge from his right wing position and Beckham didn’t have a good enough left foot to operate in that role and thus ended up playing as a CM. However, individually he still did better than the other attackers in his team in both ESM appearances and Balon d’Or ratings during his time at Real. All the galacticos apart from Zidane (including Figo) never had a season comparable to their best seasons during their time at Real post Zidane’s arrival, thus they were all actually declining when he joined and after the debacle of the 03/4 season the decline set in permanently as age also caught up with them. So them overshadowing him is out of the question as he actually had a season comparable to his best during 02/03, unlike the others. And this was even after he was made to accommodate on freekick and penalty kick opportunities, playing positions, etc.

Now for your question regarding Zidane’s peak and prime years, I’d say he was at his peak was around the year 2002 which incidentally makes his injury before the WC even more tragic. As for his prime it’s from 1996 to 2004 with his statistically best seasons coming in at 95/96, 97/98, 00/01 and 02/03.

In conclusion, I can go on into more detail, but I hope you get the gist and do your own research before accepting what others say about Zidane.

 

Interesting take. Do you mind elaborating why you thought his 2001/02 (if I may use the seasonal format) was his peak?

Personally, I remember the Juventus Zidane who was actually quite athletic. Not super fast, obviously, but not slow either (some people do have the impression that Zidane was slow). Crucially, a bit like Bergkamp, I felt they both had that upper body strength and balance and agility to be really good at ball control and manipulation, especially in tight spaces and under pressure.

In my memory, I feel like he lost a bit of that at Madrid, and perhaps that wasn't the case. Or maybe he more than made up for it in some other ways?

To be fair, he was still only 30 in 01/02, so he wasn't out of his athletic prime yet.

 

I think Zidane was a player a level above Platini. The latter played in more advanced positions and was a better goalscorer. Zidane is obviously an all-time great - he was the standout player of the pre-Messi/Ronaldo era, which was an incredibly competitive time for football.

 

I don't think so. As I stated earlier, his average position was quite similar to Zidane's. He surely had a more vertical game, playing on the whole length on the field (from 6 to 9, to sum up) but his most common position is roughly the same as Zidane.

Check this for example :

 

Wouldn’t any historical ranking’s results depend on the criteria used? For instance Pele wouldn’t naturally top a list which considers playmaking as the most important aspect to decide on a player’s placement, nor would Maradona necessarily top one which considers club football exploits as the most important.

I personally put a large emphasis on the completeness of the players’ resume, so for instance those who haven’t won the top national and club level trophies would be naturally excluded. My reasoning is that while there are many exceptional talents, few have that combination of hard work, good luck, right decision making and the ability to raise their game at key moments which sets them apart from their other talented compatriots. I also feel that players who operate in the middle of the park have a lot more impact on their team’s performance than those who operate nearer to the goal, thus I don’t rate strikers and forwards quite as highly. With these criteria I generally look at the likes of Beckenbauer, Jose Leandro Andrade, Zidane, etc. a lot more favorably than the players you mentioned above.

As for being game-changing or having an x-factor, I feel that players who are touted to have it should be able to display it in clutch moments, otherwise it is just a tool to bully the weak and make a player develop a greater aura than what he actually deserves. Furthermore, any player who is able to use that much touted x-factor to bring in a decisive change to a game’s score line would in my opinion have the ability to have the kind of complete resume that I look for, so long as he gets enough chances with a decent enough team. So in a way it is already covered in a better way as part of my criteria.

Hope this answered your question.

 

IIRC Zidane himself or someone else who was involved in commenting on his career from that time had stated in an interview or documentary that he felt constrained when playing for Juventus and that he regained his creative freedom after joining Real Madrid.

There’s also the part about him maturing and stabilizing his mental makeup after the red card against Hamburg in the year 2000, which cost him the Balon d’Or. This meant that he didn’t get a similar red card again till the 2006 World Cup, unlike earlier when it happened roughly once every 2 years.

As for his physical fitness, I don’t think that was a problem till the 2004/05 season and so he was definitely in perfect shape from that perspective in 2002. He certainly didn’t look slow at all, while sprinting or in his reactions, during that timeframe.

Lastly, all this is quite evident from his gameplay during that year, at least to someone like me who has watched his games from both the earlier and latter seasons of his prime, since the progression from earlier and the descent later on across all these aspects become more and more evident as one moves nearer to the edge of his prime years.

 

I believe the more appropriate point would be regarding the difference in the ability on the ball. Probably a reason why Platini preferred playing more centrally has to do with how he had options to move or more importantly pass the ball, in the entire 360 degrees around him, but it wasn’t the case on the wings, as can be seen in the instances after the 3 minute mark in that video you posted. I think Zidane would be more comfortable in that situation due in part to his ability on the ball, but thus probably didn’t end up focusing as much on passing as Platini did throughout his career.

From my perspective, Platini’s lack of a World Cup title and a marquee WC tournament performance are where he clearly falls behind Zidane, while conversely having a clear edge from his exceptional goalscoring record in that same comparison.

All other points can go either way in my opinion, depending on individual preferences.

 

Zidane was a more complete player. Two-footed, superior physically (Strong, more rapid), a clearly superior dribbler. Better in tight spaces, and could find more solutions than Platini. Over their careers, I find Zidane had the better achievements. On a team of Galacticos, he was clearly the superior technical player.
Hard to judge the historical ranking - it depends on what you weigh as Estel said.

 

Zinedine Zidane, like Maradona, is virtually perfect from a technical stand point; but even then, I prefer Michel Platini due to his end product, his passing, his goal, and his ball retention...

I think Platini was a remarkably constant player, across all the formats and against all tiers of opponents.

Michel Platini & Zbigniew Boniek.

Michel Platini & Zinedine Zidane.

Michel Platini & Kaka.

For example, I think you could quite easily replace Boniek with Zidane, and the end result would probably be quite similar provided you have Platini to make it all work.

On the other hand, if you replace Platini, I think it becomes a lot more difficult to find a player, or even find several players, who can offer the mixture of tangibles and intangibles that Platini could offer on a consistent and constant basis, across all formats.

In terms of European players, I think all of Michel Platini, Johan Cruijff, and Zinedine Zidane, are better and more complete players than Cristiano Ronaldo ever was.

 

Platini scored 8 out of his 41 goals with France with his left foot. Zidane was one of the best two-footed players ever, clearly. But Platini had a great left foot too. He did had a great accuracy with both feet.
I'm not sure Zidane was more rapid. When physically fit, Platini had some pace.

 

I agree from A to Z.

 

I was trying to find examples showcasing Zidane’s completeness and happened upon this one -
https://imgur.com/I0PD7XG
I think it’s worth noting how Zidane is able to get out of tight spaces, stretch the play, create openings using his first touch and lay on the final ball allowing his teammates to successfully transition from defence to attack in a short span of time.

 

Agreed. Zidane's touch, two-footedness, dribbling and physique allow him to offer more solutions and his achievements and feats with the ball put him in a different level to Platini IMO. Platini wrote a better story with Juve given different circumstances (Del Piero was the golden boy and always seen in a more favourable light - to a lesser extent Raul later) and was a more prolific FK taker - perhaps better, but also had more opportunity.

 

League+ champions league
2003/04 to 2011/12



234 goals+100 assists in 29951 minutes(332.7 matches)
1 goal+assist per 90


1009 dribbles completed
3 dribbles completed per 90

506 - @Cristiano completed 506 dribbles in the @premierleague, more than any other player in the competition between 2003 & 2009. Ability#AskOpta#AskOptaJosé#StayHome #StayAtHome https://t.co/mM8kPAkhrk pic.twitter.com/0NTToOpCjM

— OptaJose (@OptaJose) May 14, 2020

189 - Cristiano Ronaldo completed 189 dribbles from 2003/04 season to 2008/09 (included) in Champions League. Break.

— OptaJose (@OptaJose) May 7, 2020

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/detailed-stats/successful-dribbles/



By the age of just 27 years old(2012) cristiano ronaldo had undertaken over 1000 succesful dribbles in the league and champions league all the while maintaining a direct involvement of 1 goal per game



In the league where he is supposedly inept


He played between 2003/04 to 2011/12
23273 minutes(259~ matches)
Scoring 196 goals(0.75 goals per 90)
Assisting 77 goals(0.30 assists per 90)
Completing 745 dribbles(2.89 dribbles per 90)
winning 777 fouls(3 per 90)
And laying off 470 key passes(1.81 per 90)


This averaging 60 touches per 90 and well over 30 passes a game

Playing as a left sided midfielder,free roaming attacking midfielder,wing forward and very rarely as a CF


A world class dribbler verging on legendary at times(double digit dribbles completed against Chelsea,Roma and benfica in the champions league)

Shot/ball carrying monster and a very good team player=more complete then any french player EVER


This is what van basten/zidane/platini are competing against and they simply can't



C.Ronaldo has games in his career where he has completed double digits dribbles in a single match(vs Chelsea elo ranked number 2 in Europe)




He has games(multiple)where he has scored 5 goals in single match playing in a top 5 European league


He has (multiple)games where he has assisted 3 or more times in a single match


Almeria 2010/11(4 assists)

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_ud-almeria/index/spielbericht/1036443


Aston villa 2007/08(3 assists)

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united_aston-villa/index/spielbericht/81796


Bolton 2006/07(3 assists)

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united_bolton-wanderers/index/spielbericht/55731


Villarreal 2009/10(3 assists)

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_villarreal-cf/index/spielbericht/957403


He has seasons/calender years where hes been the top scorer in Europe


He has been the top assister in Europes top 5 leagues (e.g 2006/07)
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sco...se=&ausrichtung=&spielerposition_id=&yt0=Show




For creativity ronaldo has countless matches in the league and champions league where he has created 5 or more chances in a single match




Something like this(away vs westbromich albion 2004/05)

He literally delivered 6 key passes/chances in 38 first half minutes


0:41 key pass
0:58 chance created
1:20 dribbling run from the midfield leading to a shot on goal
2:03 chance created
3:05 chance created
3:45 chance created
4:43 chance created


This is a better half performance without goals then Michel platini has ever had against any opponent


Something between George best(his wizardry on the flank) and Ronaldo el fenomeno(his rampaging runs from midfield)


For full matches

Almeria 2010/11
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/433793/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2010-2011-Real-Madrid-Almeria
7 key passes



Seville 2009/10(4th place la liga)
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/335381/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Sevilla
6 key passes


Espanyol 2010/11
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/434246/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2010-2011-Espanyol-Real-Madrid
6 key passes


Atletico madrid 2014/15(3rd place la liga)
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/8...-LaLiga-2014-2015-Real-Madrid-Atletico-Madrid
5 key passes



Napoli 2016/17

6 - Cristiano Ronaldo has created six chances tonight v Napoli, a personal record in a Champions League game. Mercurial.

— OptaJohan (@OptaJohan) February 15, 2017

Villarreal 2017/18
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1222008/Live/Spain-LaLiga-2017-2018-Real-Madrid-Espanyol
5 key passes


Lyon 2009/10
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/374543/Preview/Europe-Champions-League-2009-2010-Real-Madrid-Lyon
5 key passes


Apoel 2011/12
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/5...ns-League-2011-2012-Real-Madrid-APOEL-Nicosia
5 key passes

Sporting gijon 2011/12
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/5...n-LaLiga-2011-2012-Sporting-Gijon-Real-Madrid
5 key passes

Granada 2014/15
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/862125/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2014-2015-Granada-Real-Madrid
5 key passes

Malaga 2014/15
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/862114/Preview/Spain-LaLiga-2014-2015-Malaga-Real-Madrid
5 key passes

Fa cup fixture vs Northampton FC 2003/04

7 key passes
1:58
2:46
4:16
5:34
6:17
7:19
7:27

Etc...





Between 2012/13 and 2017/18 he metamorphised into the best goalscorer European football has ever seen

Platinis body of work,completeness,peak,longevity,individual accolades are just nowhere near

babaorum

"It was a different time
The balls were heavier
The climate was different
The hairstyles were better
Its my personal taste"

 

You look quite upset but there is no need to pollute this thread with your off-subject logorrhea...

 

The 1980s as most competitive era, above the others, has become a bit of a myth. The fouling was actually worse in the 1970s (in severity), actual research has shown.

 

Indeed please no more C.Ronaldo posts in a thread about the greatest French players!

 

I would rank Platini ahead of Zidane because he was a much more influential player. His nine goals in five matches in Euro 84 outline the major individual contribution he made towards Frances triumph in that tournament. Zidane's was superb at Euro 2000 but he did not have the same individual impact as Platini in 84. His contribution at France 98 is exaggerated and was not the star of the tournament. He was brilliant in the 2006 World Cup but again was not the best player in the competition. Zidane had incredible technique and compares to the likes of Bergkamp, Maradona, Ronaldinho in terms of how he could control and receive the ball. He was a brilliant dribbler with superb balance and strength but he did not have the same impact as Platini did in terms of creating chances and scoring goals. Platini was an incredible passer of the ball and a brilliant finisher. He was a leader and contrary to the myth he also tracked back to help out defensively. He was like two players rolled into one a creative midfielder and a centre forward. He could also beat players and was quicker than often made out as this video shows. at 1 hour and 15 minutes he makes a long run with the ball beating a few players before being fouled.