Zidane had a great career( to we degree we can all debate untill the cows come home) As a highlight reel player i think he is the GOAT His collection of ball controls,roulettes,clutch goals,his grace I think today its been overdone and there are today alot of players who have adapted his skills(not with the same grace perhaps but effectiveness yes) But at the time (in the immediate aftermath of his retirement )i remember zidane was literally an untouchable No one was doing or tried what he was doing during those early to mid 2000 years He was a unique player in his time and you would've had to have lived then and been following the sport to have appreciated the mystic that surrounded him and again i repeat the effortlessness of his technique It never looked like zidane was trying to be great He just was For 2 or 3 games in WC 2006 he was considered by the vast majority of football fans at that time as a lock top 3 all timer R9 in his prime and Cristiano in his physical prime i don't think reached that level(in terms of perception) Ronaldo went into WC 1998 with the expectation hed lead his country to victory and become one of the all time greats Had Cristiano Ronaldo done something really great at WC14 than perhaps neutral fans would've considered him to be on par with messi(not greater but equal) Hindsight is a beautiful thing to have and many people have gone into depth as to why zidane wasn't really at that level (and if he ever was it was never sustained) But i maintain my position that as far as fans were concerned zidane was in the closing weeks of WC 2006 talked about as equal player to Diego maradona and Pele There are even many articles and threads from that time that talk about this. Only few people have ever been perceived that way in the history of the game Perception doesn't translate as a fact but it is still worth mentioning R9,ronaldinho maybe not even cruyff reached that level of world wide acceptance as real GOAT candidate I think CR reached it in 5 or 6 games (The last 5 games of the 16/17 CL and the aftermath of the QF vs juventus in 17/18 but that's it)
I don't know, I think Ronaldinho has him beat on that front. You may be right that it didn't feel like Zidane was trying to be great, but it definitely felt like Ronaldinho was trying to be fun and entertaining, which resulted in better highlight reel, imo.
It always amazed me how a man that size can look so smooth on the ball, yet at times had the agility of an oil tanker when he was defending a dribbler I'm a firm believer that he was the most complete central midfielder in EPL history, and one of those players that you could probably plug into any team and excel. I could genuinely see him being a star in both Mourinho's Chelsea or Messi Barcelona.
35 years old Serie A Best player according to whoscored Top 3 according to Dbs calcio Profile of a legend Cristiano Ronaldo before 30 years old Teams:Manchester United and real Madrid From 2003/04 up until the 5th February 2015 406 goals+157 assists 46041 minutes played 511.5 matches 0.79 goals scored per 90 0.30 assists per 90 1.10 goal+assist per 90 After 30 years old Teams:Manchester United and juventus 5th February 2015 up until present day 222 goals+61 assists 21322 mins played 236.9 matches 0.94 goals scored per 90 0.25 assist per 90 1.19 goal+assist per 90 Highest (league)peak of Cristiano ronaldo: First half of la liga 2014/15 From match day 1 up until matchday 20 28 goals+9 assists 1601 minutes 2.09 goals+assists per 90 Whoscored rating:9.13 https://fr.whoscored.com/Graphics/2974/Show/La-Liga-Stat-Leaders Highest champions league peak: 2013/14 17 goals+6 assists 993 minutes 2.09 goals+assists per 90 Whoscored rating:8.71 Played out 4 full seasons as a traditional midfielder 2003/04 till 2006/07 6 seasons as a counter attacking winger with limited defensive responsibilities 2007/08 till 2012/13 Since 2013/14 he has been a WF,second striker and sometimes the main CF 14 consecutive world class seasons never dropping out the top 5 outfield players in Europe His real peak level is unreal First half la liga 2014/15 28 goals+9 assists in 17 matches Whoscored rating:9.13 Second half la liga 2009/10 Whoscored rating:8.9 https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/world-football-historic-center-dearman-blogspot.1992003/page-55 2011/12 Scored 4 goals in 5 games vs legendary Barcelona in the league,copa and super Copa Hattricks vs 4th place Malaga 5th place Atletico 6th place levante Scored in 27 league matches(record) Against all 19 opponents (record) Was a phenomenal scorer and wing creator Some people talk like he is a giggs or Totti or zanetti "Cristiano is great because of his body of work" His longevity His durability C.Ronaldo at his best was by a mile out on his own with only one other player for the best part of 10 years And Reached phenomenal heights in the league and champions league Hes in the conversation Not an outsider He can stand toe to toe with any player before or after Peak for peak Longevity vs longevity You lay out 10 seasons of his vs any player and it could go in his favour or be a close call Edit: All Stats taken from Transfermarket and Bdfutbol
I'm not sure if I rate Cristiano Ronaldo all that high (compared with other greats), he played in a much better teams as a focal point of the team (I'm talking about Real Madrid especially here) so he ended with better stats, plus he was very consistent which helped his case of course. But along with his excellent physical ability, his ability to receive the best balls with exceptional movements off-ball movements, and his completeness in scoring goals (with both feet, head)... I don't think Cristiano Ronaldo is particularly a creative player, or a high level dribbler (good dribler yes he was and still is, all-timer not imo), but the main point is that he was extremely selfish at times, making quite questionable decisions very often in his peak. If the high-risk, high-reward moves that can generate goals or turnovers of Neymar are highlighted, and perhaps it's a luxury that only today's super-teams can afford., maybe Cristiano Ronaldo had to play in a different way in the past as well, instead of be a predominantly wild shooter that is what he can be classified even now. Difficult to make comparisons with players from the past and other circumstances.
When Marco van basten and Ruud Gullit played at AC Milan together, alongside Frank Rijkaard for a magical five years, they formed one of the most dominant sides in club football, winning two European Cups and two Scudetti. Most people remember Marco van Basten for that volley against the Soviet Union in the 1988 European Championship final. The act itself was the fusion of technique, timing, balance, vision, and precision. Many players dream of scoring that one goal in their playing days that will echo in eternity. The thing is, Marco van Basten made the spectacular a regular occurrence. His ability to find the net when it mattered most, be it with a volley, a strike from distance, side volley, bicycle kick, or any other stunning species of shot with either foot, remains the stuff best reserved for the holiest of highlight reels. Great strikers require great service and Ruud gullit was on another level to his rivals in his prime. A powerful header of the ball and equally powerful runner, with or without the ball, Gullit was perhaps one the best playmakers of his generation. His ability to streak inside from the wing and drill a shot with ferocity or deftness of touch into the back of the net has hardly been matched by any player in the modern game. Like Van Basten, Gullit could very well take the pitch in today’s modern game and still do the business. The pair combined their footballing brains and technical abilities to conquer Europe on both the club and international level. https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/08/27/the-perfect-harmony-of-marco-van-basten-and-ruud-gullit/ As a dynamic attacking midfielder Prime Ruud gullit scored from 1985/86 till 1993/94 96 league goals(3 pen)+57 assists in 18204 minutes(202 matches) With penalties 0.75 goals+assists per 90 Without penalties 0.74 goals+assists per 90 As a dynamic attacking midfielder ronaldinho gaucho scored from 2003/04 till 2006/07 62 league goals(19 pen)+48 assists in 11018 minutes(122 matches) With penalties 0.90 goals +assists per 90 Without penalties 0.74 goals+assists per 90 As a dynamic attacking midfielder Diego maradona scored from 1982/83 till 1989/90 97 league goals(28 penalties)+58 assists in 17849 minutes(198 matches) With penalties: 0.78 goals+assists per 90 Without penalties 0.68 goals+ assists per 90 This is no scientific way to absolutely determine who was more impactful One thing for certain though ruud gullit was a footballing machine and potentially underrated in these kind of discussions I see him of the same calibre as prime Ronaldinho gaucho Some popularity lists put him out the top 50
Vs Psv 89/90 0.21 Best setpiece assist ever? UEFA cup winners cup R16 v PSG 96/97 4:56 European cup QF vs ifk goteborg 88/89 6:03 European cup semi final vs Galatasary 88/89 3:20 Legendary assists and playmaking in big European games Gheorghe Hagi scored in 1987/88 and 1988/89 56 league goals in 61 appearances 0.91 gpg During the same time frame he scored 10 goals in 17 European cup appearances 0.59 gpg At least half a dozen assists too(some from set pieces others not) http://www.rsssf.com/players/hagi-in-ec.html There is a strong case id say he was the most complete attacker of the 2nd half of the 1980s With real elite scoring,dribbling,ball carrying ability and playmaking A more prolific dribbler(at this stage)than Maradona Arguably as good a goalscorer as Marco basten And romario(the Romanian league at that time was actually on par with eredivisie where romario was plying his trade) http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=1988-1989#club https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Ballon_d'Or 8th place ballon dor is too low for him Small tangent Piksi is at 6th place and they say he is a unfulfilled talent? 1989 was probably the most competitive ballon dor year of the 1980s decade So many creative players with different skillsets like paulo Futre,van basten,Barnes,hagi,Piksi,gullit,Maradona,careca,Baggio,hoddle etc.... all operating at a world class level @PuckVanHeel @PDG1978 @leadleader
https://onefootball.com/en/news/there-is-only-one-hristo-stoichkov-16887307 Stoichkov was a phenomenal creator I noticed crossing was perhaps the most underplayed component of his all round @Edhardy
Gheorghe Hagi is probably my favorite player of all time; he just haves it all in my opinion, elegant on the ball at the same time that he is physically powerful on the ball, goat-tier ability as a passer, one of the most dangerous shots of all time, very good dribbler, great ball carrier, great ball retention, amazing intuitive creativity, underrated work-rate (for example, his legendary performance versus Colombia at World Cup 1994, where Hagi worked very hard off the ball, which was not noticed by the people narrating the game), etc.
Stoichkov I think is underrated, probably as a result of him being less obviously stylish than Baggio, Romario, Hagi, all of which were very aesthetically impressive on the ball. But Stoichkov was a phenomenal talent, possibly the hardest-working player of his time, and a very productive crosser of the ball as you noted yourself; in a nutshell, one of the best ever players in terms of possessing both great talent and great selflessness. Stoichkov vs. Real Madrid Copa del Rey 1992/93 is perhaps the best game that I have watched of Stoichkov; I do not remember if the game was the first leg or the second leg, but I do remember being very impressed by Stoichkov, who was great both as a dribbling outlet as well as in terms of his cross service. This player is the most underrated legend of his era, I'd argue.
I love Stoichkov. Absolute pivotal player to the Dream Team. Cruyff loved the guy too. The video of Cruyff trying to teach Stoichkov how to skip gets me everytime
If I find the time, I will try to make a video of his performance vs. Real Madrid in the Copa del Rey 1992/93. Anyways, I'm not sure if you can call his crossing ability traditional, because more often than not it was a swerving low cross (aimed at the legs, not the head) that he served.
Vision+crossing 2:51 0:39 Maybe one of his best European games along with the Manchester United 94/95 Could add to that 1988/89 encounter vs Barcelona when he played for CSKA Sofia(the outrageous chip from outside the box) 1:20 A reasonably good cross but not outstanding ok I have some other ideas but big soccer puts a limit to how many videos you can post per page I think
Johan Cruyff teaching Hristo Stoichkov how to skip at Barcelonapic.twitter.com/tSLREFHsBc— 90s Football (@90sfootball) October 1, 2020 Here the performance against Manchester United in 1994. I think @wm442433 had a decent summary of him: Stoichkov – Hristo (no need for a translation), was not an altar boy. But he was the king player of the Bulgarian team that reached the semi-finals of the U.S World Cup. European Cup winner with Barça two years earlier under the command of Cruyff whose the advices made him considerably improving, he was a wide-striker who, when he wanted to be at the service of the team, was also able to offer assists to his partners. Arrow of the 1992 Barcelona team, the duo that he then formed with Romario was on this point remarkable ; it took him at least a Romario to submit to a more collective game, because the intelligence, that he had, he did not always show it. His will, with the complicity of his team members, to finish as the unique top scorer of the World Cup '94 costed a Bronze medal to Bulgaria, and he finished only joint top scorer with Salenko with 6 goals. A player out of the ordinary anyway, and absolutely exceptional for Bulgaria which before him, only knew the wonderful footballer and deceased too soon Asparuhov, at a time when the national team did not manage to emerge, or even the very complete Bonev afterwards but for few results as well. Since Stoichkov, there has well been only Berbatov, but this one did not benifit of the same quality of partners and of the same group's cohesion that Stoichkov did benefit from. But from this global appreciation of the 1993-1994 Bulgaria team, we'll most of all remember about the enormous plus that Stoichkov brang to his group. As with his free-kicks, also sometimes. I have always believed he was the most crucial player of that Dream Team, as far as creative players are concerned. His pace, his ability to stretch opposition, the directness were harder to replace than Bakero, Laudrup or Romario. Not saying he was a better player than them, necessarily, but he was harder to replace. The GoalImpact rating therefore shows him the highest of any of the 'Dream Team' forwards and midfielders. In terms of him being underrated: maybe, in comparison to Hagi and some other legends, but he gets regularly included in top 100 all-time lists (not always, but it regularly happens). After all, he has some high profile games at the big stages and against the big teams as well (1992 EC semi final, WC 1994, euro 1996 too). He was nominated and voted for the BdO in each year between 1991 and 1995. Onze Mondial included him twice. But it's true he can easily get underrated, like the Lukas Tank user on twitter that placed him below Hassler, Donadoni and Rai in his own time. What hurts him is his 'hustle and bustle' style, also that he declined steeply after he was 28 years old (at least in productivity), in perception at least. He came to Parma, the Serie A, as reigning European player of the year, as "Europe's number one footballer". While it's arguably exaggerated how bad he was, it was a disappointment (with Parma, accidentally, achieving significantly better results in the 12 games he missed than the 30 he played). He did have a strong start though and also did decent enough in Europe (quarter final, two goals, incl. one against later winner PSG). His peak years I'd say, if not suspended or injured, were between 1988 and 1994. There was some delayed recognition, and he didn't enter Barcelona as a ready made superstar (in perception), but I believe he has already the evidence on his side slightly before that (at international and continental level; for ex. the 1989 CWC semi final against Barcelona and being CWC topscorer). Then after that he had one further excellent tournament in euro 1996 - against the better teams, too. With modern eyes, his numbers might look less good than they were. His 36 national team goals that includes some penalties (seven?); his 17 European Cup/Champions League goals. However, each of the major nations just don't have too many player above 25 goals threshold: Argentina: Messi and Aguero Brazil: Neymar, Kaka and Rivaldo Germany: T. Muller, G. Muller and Gomez (26 goals) Italy: Inzaghi, Del Piero Spain: Raul, Di Stefano, Morientes and Gento England: Rooney France: Benzema, Henry, Trezeguet and Papin Netherlands: Van Nistelrooij, Robben, Kluivert, Makaay, Van Persie (JC and MvB both on 19) Portugal: Cristiano Ronaldo and Eusebio
Thank you. Some time ago I saw the 1995 PSG vs Barcelona match again, and although he didn't play well, I saw some good ground passes too...
Realistically there just really aren't 50 better players than stoichkov Top scorer in a WC(1994) Top scorer in Europe(89/90 golden shoe) Top scorer in a major European competition(CWC 88/89) Integral player of a legendary club side(4 consecutive la liga+champions league) And he was never a CF in the mould of a romario or papin and I can't imagine he played less deeper or with less defensive duties as a George weah yet he completely blows him out of the water statistically prime for prime I think Maybe some guys like stojkovic,Hagi,Baggio,savecevic had a higher ceiling perhaps although it isn't conclusive If we're just taking the raw facts(achievements,skillset and production at all levels) he is a real contender for best player of the 90-94 period the fighting spirit and selflessness can overshadow what was in reality a highly technical player The goal vs Austria wein in the CL 93/94 Barcelona 88/89 CWC the hattrick in the first half against bilbao 90/91 capped by that fantastic solo goal The chips/lobs,piledrivers,FKs,headers,crosses and key passes he provided Years ago you said his dribbling technique was on par with eusebio,Cristiano,KHR,blokhin etc just below the truly elite Even if that is just your perception if you combine that with everything he achieved it doesn't make sense to have him outside the top echelon
Again, I don't know where to start... Let's start - once again - with your first sentence. Yes he was joint topscorer in 1994, but half of his six goals were penalties...
For reference Romario at Barcelona 93-95 39 goals in 5431 minutes(60.1 appearances) 0.64 goals per 90 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/romario/leistungsdaten/spieler/7942/plus/0?saison=1993 Stoichkov at Barcelona 114 goals in 18327 minutes 0.56 goals per 90 This includes the decline period aswell(when he returned from Parma) If we just include his first 4 seasons 1990/91 - 1993/94 88 goals in 12908 minutes(143.4 matches) 0.61 goals per 90 No doubt in my mind stoichkov was doing a shit load more ball carrying than romario,more crossing,creating more chances,and performing consistently across all cup formats that we can positively say Stoichkov was in retrospect defintely a superior player