It seems that Snowden is writing from a bitter point of view, which is okay. Someone feels that it is their jobto deflate the balloon. I'm only surprised that he didn't have the balls to run the article immediately after Garber's state of the league. Surely there wasn't anything important going on after the All Star game that he couldn't have posted his thoughts. Snowden's points all seem to smack of frustration with the MLS heirarchy and how the league is handling itself. Also, he seems particularly upset that the fans of the MLS are generally content with how well the league is doing in player development and it's contribution for the World Cup team. Afterall, many a U.S. soccer pundit are walking around with egg on their face because of wrong predictions and opinions about the MLS. We did well in the World Cup against "World" class players which dismisses that point. The World Cup is an excellent venue for comparing and judging the quality of players and I don't see much that is equal or better. Is Garber guilty of hype? Certainly, but then again I see the same kind of things being said by the Presidents and press of many teams and leagues. Their opinions are just as much based upon nationalism and their press pretty much carries the byline as well. It is his job to make us feel good about the league and how it is doing. The only point I absolutely agree with is that there is no resting on ones laurels of past games and performances. France made that mistake and we should not. Concacaf is always competitive and each team wants to go to the World Cup. The only thing that has changed is that the MLS is a good place to look for players to field our World Cup team. We don't have to draw all of them from Europe or South America to compete. Why should Garber's comments upset Snowden? Perhaps it is because the MLS is beginning to reach it's potential and it is closer than he feels comfortable with acknowledging. Maybe he feels that it is being led by a man with no previous soccer credentials? Or maybe he feels that we are stupid people whom he must illuminate with the truth? Regardless of all that, I am tired of most soccer pundits who exist only to denigrate the achievements of the MLS and the Yanks. While Snowden may not be in this category, there are others who are.
Do you even have a clue? You know, you're achieved a remarkable degree of idiocy, even for Big Soccer; at least pick a better example. Did you happen to catch that Reyna was named to the FIFA World Cup all-tournament starting team? If that's not "world class," I don't know what is. His start for Sunderland this season continues to support that contention, his teammates' poor play notwithstanding. As for the rest, troll -- PLEDGE. Same goes for Snowden. Frankly, are we sure that Jamie Trecker hasn't been using Snowden as a "nom de plume"? Finally, let's take a tally, shall we? MLS: 2 out of the last three CONCACAF Champions Cups. USMNT: current Gold Cup holder, ONLY CONCACAF nation to qualify for last 4 World Cups, reached 2nd round once, quarterfinals the most recent time after beating MEXICO. U-23s: 4th at last Olympics. Recent U-20s, U-17s: We've made a semifinal appearance, and reached at least the second round three more times, only to lose to eventual winner (I believe, could be the other finalist) in more than one case. Women's Teams: self explanatory. Gee, that pretty much makes us the dominant nation in CONCACAF, doesn't it? And if the Champions Cup is the only measure of club superiority, even given this year's likely result, we've STILL won 50% of the Champions Cups in existence. THAT'S dominance, tools; read it and weep. Garber's spot on with this, and he's more than justified to harp on these facts -- that's why he's the commissioner.
What is so surprising about the facts that: 1. US soccer has come a long way -- how old were Donovan and Beasley when the WC was played here in 94? 12 or thereabouts? What 12 year olds are on the playgrounds right now getting ready to surpass these two in 8 or 10 years? 2. US soccer has a long way to go. Sure it does, and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise. But it is equally foolish to ignore how far the game has come. 3. Sports commissioners hype their game. If Garber didn't push the hype envelope, he wouldn't be doing his job.
That's excactly right-but you won't win this argument on Big Soccer. Just look at the midfield: there are no players in MLS who can play at the level of John O'Brien and Claudio Reyna-there is a gap in level, that was more than obvious during the WCQ. In fact, look at the bad patch that put us in trouble before the Jamaica match in Foxboro. Most of it was due to not having Reyna-and at that Jamaica match O'Brien's influence was clear as day. Again, where are the players in MLS that show that quality? Maybe there are teens somwhere, but right now? They are not there, and the first person to tell you that is Bruce Arena-oh, that's right, on Big Soccer, Arena, "won't get it right," he, "has to go"-Reyna too, if remember right. Funny-and this goes to the article's point-that people here forget how tense things were before that match. And sorry, when you struggle at home against the likes of Guatemala (no offense Guatemala fans), well...If you were to read this thread, you'd think we dust these teams the way Spain goes through its WCQ. Go back and watch the tape of the match at the Azteca. And speaking of Mexico, what does it say about this so-called dominant team, that it has to play its home match versus the Tri in an absolute ice box? Oh I know, I don't "get it" re: these sort of things. There is a lot of upside re: MLS and soccer in the US. But there is a lot downside as well. We should be mature enough to take the knocks and build on them instead of crying about euro-snobbery.
I think when Garber makes these statements about the league, he isn't really talking to us. He's talking to potential investors and advertisers. This is the kind of hyperbole that they want to hear in order to be persuaded to put their advertisements on shirts and dasherboards and free giveaways at the stadium. It's how advertising people talk. Some call it puffing. If you actually take him seriuosly enough when he's puffing to write that kind of rebuttal, then I don't think you're really hearing what he's saying or realizing who he is talking to.
As I spoke with someone yesterday, I think the overall premise is spot on. Yes, Garber spins... but then again, he is spinning for the larger group of people who are looking or reading about MLS. Not the junkies that frequent Bigsoccer or Soccer365, or where ever. Its the bigger audience folks that he is talking to. With that said, and some of which I had not thought of.... his argument is built on somewhat of a house of cards. Costa Rica has never won a Gold Cup. As someone mentioned US teams have won two of the three latest Concacaf "Whatever the Club Championship tournament is called these days." The one that gets me is the notion that we must be like European leagues in order to be considered "world class." Only problem is that we are not in Europe. If you look at the past ten years lets say, you find out that this past World Cup is not an anomoly, but more of a result of the strides US soccer... and MLS have made. Are we absolute kings of the hill? No, but we at least have been to the mountain top on a number of occassions. Paul
Two points: 1. By Snowden's logic Brazil can't be considered dominant in South America. They finished pretty close to last place in their group, behind Argentina, Paraguay, Ecuador, etc. 2. He says that US soccer lacks leaders. Bruce Arena is a leader, a very good one.
This whole thread, and the above comment is such complete and utter horse-sh!t is sickens me. Why does the US have to be held to a higher standard than any other country on the planet in terms of soccer? Why can't we enjoy the small success we have had? Why point out something as stupid as the above when 99% of the countries in the world struggle at home against certain teams? I swear people go out of their way to knock the US, when in reality the things they are knocking the US for are evident in EVERY soccer playing nation. Thats it. This takes the cake for the dumbest comment I have ever read on Big Soccer. How in gods name you can write something like that and still act like you have a clue??????? I really really really hate some big soccer posters and their air of arrogance. Andy
Thank you. Did anyone, including Snowden, bother to check out the context of Garber's speech. It was the "state of the league" address. A room full of sponsors, potential sponsors, investors and potential investors. This is the closest thing to a friggin annual report you will find. Perhaps this would have been better: "First I would like to welcome our new sponsor ADT, welcome aboard. Now down to business. You may have noticed that we made the quarterfinals of the WC with many MLS players, but do not be deceived. Hell, we were lucky to be there if you look at our qualifying results. MLS is proud of the young players we produce like Donovan and DMB, but keep in mind that there must be more than 50 players their age playing in europe right now with the same speed and potential. Finally, I would like to reiterate our appreciation to ADT and all of our other sponsors. Please send your checks before KC gets pummled by Morelia." One final point. Anyone who makes an argument about the strength of the league in comparison to other regional leagues is pulling your chain if he claims to have seen enough Honduran, Guatamalan and Costa Rican league matches to make a valid comparison. Mexico fine, but Honduras? He must have a good cable package.
As usual, I'm coming into this discussion after so many good comments have been made all ready, so I feel I would be redundant putting my opinions in at any kind of length. So I'll just second the earlier comment about semantics--Snowden has a particular definition of "world-class," that practically makes it impossible for the MLS to produce anyone who deserves the label. I think the term should be applied a little more broadly--not to water it down, apply to any player who plays well, but come on, we had some players who impressed at the freaking WORLD CUP! Does that automatically mean "world-class"? Maybe not...but it certainly demands respect, more than Mr. Snowden gives. He is really not completely off the mark in his analysis of the relative strength of MLS, but he's taking Garber far too seriously. Garber, as noted by many above, has a job to do--and making even-handed, objective statements loaded with realistic admissions of the ongoing weaknesses of a young, under-financed league, aimed at discerning members of the soccer congnescetti--this is not his job. The word, Mr. Snowden, is context. Perspective might be a good one, as well. Still, I'm not angry about this article--Snowden is a good writer who obviously supports the growth of soccer in the US (are you listening, Mr. Gardner?)--and he is right to call for balance, and for a realistic appraisal of the accomplishments of the sport so far. But he was a little too harsh, and this business about "world-class" was just silly. If only a handful of players can be truly considered world-class (which he seems to believe, given that he says you have to be one of the THE BEST at a position), then the complaint is moot. Only a few players in the world can achieve such heights, so few that any comparison of leagues might almost be statiscally insignificant. I mean, I'm kidding a little, but come on! We have to produce a Roberto Carlos before the talent level of MLS is considered worthy of world respect? So we haven't produced, say, a Peter Schmiecal yet (by Mr. Snowden's criteria). I still have a feeling that, come 2006, a certain Tim Howard is going to be making life miserable for a few "world-class" forwards in Germany.
WE ARE THE DOMINANT SIDE IN OUR REGION! Gentlemen, good thread to read. but Snowden, say partner...didn't Honduras lose AT HOME to Trinidad & Tobago? What does that say about their league? Snowden...didn't Mexico go to the last day HAVING to beat Honduras? Nuff said as we beat Jamaica to rap up the points. Didn't Mexico pay off Honduras or whatever the mexies were thinking that week...like Club America paid off Necaxa to win the Title. Everyone that follows the MFL knows that story.m That type of sh!t doesn't happen in MLS and our 7 year old league. Write an article on that one Ace if ya have a gripe!
is this paul gardner's apprentice? too bad this guy didn't do his homework either...when using the chivas game to support his theory, why not mention it was a friendly and the metros had two players ejected by brian hall for bs calls before the half....(hall later tried to even things out by ejecting a mexican player at the end of the game).... hmmmm....11 on 9....sure, that's a fair representation....the metros actually scored when they were shorthanded....but no need to mention that.....anyway the game was a friendly.... as for mexico...we did beat them 5 out of the last 6, that could be seen as positive....and mexico has always been seen as the best team in concacaf...so if we beat them consistently, garber is not wrong for making that statement... why the hell is this guy so anti-us soccer...move to friggin mexico.... the same way this guy downgrades accomplishments, is the same way others can fluff others up... the thing is we're dealing about peoples opinions...for evey point he brings up...i can bring up a counter......
Hard to add anything of substance after so many good posts. It seems Snowden is as guilty of hyperbole as he accuses Garber of doing. There are as many example of US dominance in CONCACAF as there are examples against it. Suffice it say the US is a power in the region due in no small part to MLS. It is also fair to say that now the US is a power to be reckoned with on the world stage, again due in no small part to MLS. Arguing about who is or is not world class is like arguing over which is a better color: red or blue. The evidence is that the US and MLS is turning out players who can play at a world class level. Discounting the US perfomance as lucky and not worthy while ignoring the performances of France, Argentina and Portugal is disigenuous. As is taking into account Euro fixture fatigue for those teams while ignoring those same factors for the players on Brazil and Germany. As many have stated, Garber wasn't talking to us. He was talking to ESPN, Pepsi and Express Sports. I have no problem with what he said. Slightly exaggerated: Sure. A lie: No. There is evidence to both suppport and dispute his claim. Garber is talking to the jury of sponsors, investors, media heads and the general sports public. It is up to them to decide.
Not sure if anyone got to this one yet: Mastroeni Mathis Donovan Beasley That's just those that made the squad. Claudio Reyna made the all-tournament team because 1) he plays in Europe, 2) he's the US Captain, and 3) he was probably the only US name that most of the voters even knew.
What's funny is that folks are really buying in to what Mr. Snowden had to say in his silly little piece. He must have felt a real obligation to straighten us soccer fans out, since we have all been buying into the Commish's positive-spinning. I guess we really need our league figurehead to downplay everything, give a little shrug-of-the-shoulder to anything positive. I think most of us are all pretty savvy enough to understand what Mr. Garber is supposed to do for his league. Mr Snowden: thanks for your help, but we're OK.
OK, you got b**** slapped pretty thoroughly for this stupid echoing of a stupid excuse, plainly bogus Eurosnob crybabyism. But you've really outdone yourself. First, what the hell does the travel demands of CONMEBOL qualifying have to do with anything??? Are you saying that Brazil could withstand the rigors of those monstrous trips around the vast island empire of Japan better than other nations could? I don't see what else you COULD mean. And this begs the question of why all the rest of CONMEBOL sucked. Also, yes, let's look at Brazil's squad. They were mediocre in qualifying. Period. It ought to be in the TOS that anyone using the term "world class" in an argument be carded. Everybody has their own definition. It's intellectual masturbation to go round and round on this. Since Garber didn't define world class, but used it in the context of the US' quarterfinal run, you're left with two choices. One, take his remark in context, to mean that a USMNT based on MLSers can compete on the world stage. In which case, he's plainly, indisputably, RIGHT. Or, you can have a big cup of shut the **** up.
I want your tape of the US-SoKo tape. Yours has a happier ending than mine. How is playing for a crap German team the "world stage." And correct me if I'm wrong, but they were BL.2 at the time, weren't they? How do you square the term "bottom dweller" with last year's PNE team? And the manager has inquired about getting McBride for his new club, Everton. In the EPL. Given our schedule, where would you expect them to comm? I mean, come. Well, sure, the hype. And also the two goals (should have been 3; we got screwed against Poland) in the World Cup. Come strong, or go home.
JRednapp just posted this to wind people up. He honestly thinks Canada has a brighter soccer future than the US. I think that says all we need to know about his soccer knowledge. Go troll some where else.
That's a very interesting take on a nation that had missed out on 3 straight WCs I'm not calling you a Eurosnob. I'm calling you an ignorant fool. That's not a personal attack, I can use the truth defense.
Re: WE ARE THE DOMINANT SIDE IN OUR REGION! Didn't Mexico finish behind TnT in the Hex qualifying rounds? Didn't Costa Rica squeek by lowly Guatemala in the playoff game to decide who came in second in the qualifying round?
Oh...and didn't lowly Hondorus absolutely WAX Slovenia in a pre-WC friendly (yes, I know...it was a friendly. However, they either count or don't count, you can't have it both ways there chief). You know, Slovenia....with players that play in....wait....EUROPE!!!!!
I think the guy who wrote that piece needs to look in the mirror before throwing stones on MLS and U.S. soccer in general. Reading this article was like reading a speech from former president Bill Clinton(the king of spin), I mean I haven't seen so much spin in an article before in my life. If you are going to write an article critizing Don Garber that is one thing, but if you are going to do it, you might want to not spin things yourself. This was the biggest waste of time I've ever seen. Thanks for providing me with laugh after laugh.