http://www.fcmetz.com/news_detail.asp?num=1650 Gooch not included in Metz's matchday squad for this weekend. http://www.fcmetz.com/news_detail.asp?num=1648 Playing in a reserve match on Saturday with "Paris FC".
I think that a lot of times teams want to give younger guys starting time on the reserves rather than bench time with the top team. If he doesn't come back up, it is bad, but if he yo-yo's for a while it might just mean that they want him in match form before they give him a go with the full squad. I would be very surprised if he was being dropped for good.
Playing in the reserves, for a 2nd division team, in a second tier European league. Yep, Europe sure is the way for our aspiring young players.
I'm not concerned. He's already seen time with the first team and the guy's just going to be 21 this year.
Honestly, is Gooch getting better experience playing in reserve matches than he would if he joined an MLS side? Its doubtfull if you ask me. Biggest difference between an MLS side and a eupropean club: MLS teams are going to be more willing to play a domestic player who is raw but has a lot of promise than the equivilent Euro side is willing to play a raw but promising foreigner. Part of that is MLS's commitment to developing american talent, part of it is that French teams are under more immediate pressure to do well, and I think a big part of it is european clubs are just less willing to roll the dice with an inexperienced player than american ones are, and I mean this across all sports. I could be wrong, but it seems like the tranfer market is the preferred place to fill a need. Anyways, I wont say doom and gloom for Oneywu yet, but I cant help but think that playing on a D2 reserve team in France is hurting his development as a player. That said, its a hell of an experience, and I hope hes enjoying himself. Anyways, hope hes back to playing in the first team soon.
While it may not appear to be attractive on paper or this forum the fact that Gooch is playing, even though it is between the regular and reserve team, is getting paid--very well compared to what he would be making as a p-40 player in the US, and has helped his team move up the ladder to be inline for a move into the first Divison, with a few more victories, doesn't seem all that bad. Perhaps he is just paying his dues as a rookie.
I think the easy thing to do at this point is overreact. Anyone remember how long it took Cherundolo to get off the bench for Hannover? A long ass time.
Well in the past year he has been signed with a team that was relegated and his contract was not validated by the french FA because of the the clubs financial problems making him ineligible to play. Moreover the team he is on seems to be on the boat to miss the boat on promotion, and he is not getting regular playing time with the first team. Now, does that sound like a good career move so far? To me thats an incredibly rough start for a player that has earned praise as high as he has by those that followed him prior to his Metz signing. It may work out in the end, but its not exactly a promising start.
Couple of things - Gooch was getting paid while they were working on his permit to play. He's making over $120K NET - plus apartment, plus car. Plus he's in France where he is learning how to play the game. The French 2nd division may not be glamourous, but players like Manu Petit and a few other French stars gained some experience in that division. The French will develop him and most likely turn him into a top level defender. Like someone said, he's not yet 21 and adapting to a new style of play, language, diet and more. From what I have heard - he loves being there.
No problem with a player who loves being wherever they may be. Actually spending some time abroad is good for an individual. What I take exception to is that it is better or even equal for him as a soccer player. I dont think that his experience as a player in France is any better than what he would get had he joined MLS, and considering the particulars of his situation its arguably worse. Two different issues that people tend to confuse on these boards. I wont begrudge him his decision if hes content with it, but I would like to see him in a more stable club situation where he can develop faster.
I find it hard to compare MLS v any European experience. In some cases, Thorington for one - it might be better for him to return to MLS, or least leave his current club asap. reading the Vanney interview on ussocceruk.com their is a difference in the game that we have over here, and what they are playing in Europe. He compares the French 1st Division to US National team games, and I'm sure the 2nd division can't be far behind. They speed of play, the competition for places, the skill level, the tactical awareness is all much advanced over there. Of course Metz' financial predicament isn't great, but he's making at least triple what he would have made over here, maybe more. Remember his money is after taxes, apartment, and car. That's $120,000 net. I doubt Taylor Twellman is getting that kind of money. Last thing, Feyenoord has brought over Carlos Bocanegra, Tim Howard, Jed Zaynor and Joe Cannon in the past few months, the same comments were said about all of them 1) Tactically not at the level of the competiton 2) Game was too fast for them 3) Skills were not up to the standard. 4) Great athletes I'd love to see these guys make the move abroad, and improve their games, and hopefully our chance at a World Cup. I'd also like to see some new Yanks come up and take their jobs and develop as best as we can. Probably next season Gooch will be contending for a starting spot on a club either in the French 1st or the top of the 2nd ( they are in 4th right now in the 2nd), and becoming a great player for the US.
I am sorry to say this but what a load of .....And playing in MLS he wouldn't?This was a correct sentiment in 1988, but just is not true now.
See the Vanney interview at ussocceruk.com http://www.ussocceruk.com/modules.p...e=article&sid=194&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 I love MLS, can't wait for the season to start, but our game is noticeably slower. When you watch today's match against Argentina it will be much faster game. Requires quicker decisions, one touch passing, and more creativity. We are not there yet in the MLS. We will get there, but its going to take more time. Sure we can develop players, but that European experience helps a lot. Look at Donovan and Twellman, would they have had the impact in MLS without that experience? Doubtful, no matter what Donovan says about his experience. Look at the impact that O'Brien has for the US? He's a starter at Ajax, but not in the role he has for the US. Why? Because he thinks and plays at a much higher speed. It might have a lot to do with our weather, but I think it is more about tactical awareness and skill level.
While I agree with you in principle on the relative speed of thought and play in regards to MLS/European leagues, it was quite clear to me on the World Cup stage that a group of mostly MLS players had little to no problem playing with Europe's and the Worlds best players.. I just don't think you should take Greg Vanney's word as gospel to the relative speed of play.. We all know the international game is a step up in terms of thought and speed, club ball though is a different story.. I think the progress MLS is making is phenomenal considering it started a mere 8 years ago.. Don't poo poo on MLS quite so much.. Is MLS a step slower in thinking and speed of play? Yes... Is it working to improve said thinking and speed of play? Most definitely yes and I would say that in the next 10 years we will be on par with most European leagues in that regard...
Those are our best, the best of the best. Plus on the WC it was a bit unusual - we faced a Portuguese team that was dumbfounded by our athleticism, and then we get an early goal off a set piece, an own goal, and a great goal. Had Baia been playing well, we might not get that result. Korea was a game at a very high tempo and we were lucky to get the tie (thank you Mr. Friedel) and Poland took it to us. We beat the Mexicans, but that is nothing we haven't done before. We had chances against Germany, but couldn't complete the deal. We played well, our best WC in 52 years - but we didn't win. I said that MLS is doing great, amazing improvement for a new league, and only going to get better. I love watching it. I think Vanney might have a better idea as he has played in both leagues - more so than you or I. So what do we do? Have our talents wait 10 years? What if Gooch stayed in MLS and made $40K before taxes, apartment, car - and took Chris Gbandi's job. Gbandi will hopefully be playing for the USA (I think he has to be naturalized) but he's got Gooch battling him for playing time or say its Suarez. We only have 110 starting jobs in MLS so having guys like Gooch go play in France will be a good thing.
Yeah I think playing in warm weather is going to help us long term in regards to learning how to think the game better. It certainly hasn't hurt Argentina or Brazil. I think you learn how to pick your spots better--when to attack, when to sit back and defend. Overall, the tactical awareness and the skill level has to improve for MLS to get on par with the second tier Euro leagues(baby steps). Last year from the games I saw there was much more economy of touch(in other words, more consistent first touches, etc.) than I have ever seen, so hopefully the level can keep going up. Our young prospects have been turning pro and many have skipped college altogether, but we still need U17 sides for each MLS team IMHO. Baby steps, baby steps.
sigh. . . Do we have to go through this discussion, everytime somebody plays a reserve match or two? Need I remind people, Gooch was making first team appearances within days after he finally joined the team (and recovered from injury). If that doesn't tell you how high they are on him, I don't know what will. I think people listen to Donovan and think all reserve sides are equivalent to some B team JV high school squad. Don't be so quick to assume that there isn't valuable experience to be gained at Metz, just because they are in the 2nd division. If it takes him a year or two to nail down a starting position, I feel that is time well spent.
The US did well in the World Cup. I just want to point out one thing, however. Never under-estimate the value of consistency and cohesion. They knew each-other, and were comfortable with each-other. Bruce Arena had a good plan.