Gold Cup Draw: Rigged In Favor of The US?

Isn't it always? I think the reason why is because we host it, and they wanna get as many bootays in the seats as possible, Mexico usually gets a favorable draw too.

 

No, if they had rigged it Mexico and Brazil would not be in the same group.

 

Group A runs away with the Group of Death title.

 

Here' s a link:

http://www.concacaf.com/news/article.page/1371

Looking ahead just a bit, if the U.S. wins their group, they face the second place team in group D in Quarterfinal 1 (if the U.S. finish second, they face the winner of Group D in Quarterfinal 1). Semifinal matchup looks like its going to be Brazil (winner of Quarterfinal 1 v. Quarterfinal 4)

So lurking is right - its rigged for a Brazil-Mexico final.

 

Look at the whole progression and you'll see exactly why Warner and his buddies do this.

Mexico will likely lose an early-round match to Brazil, raking in a ton of bucks in the process.

Then they are separated in the knockout rounds with the U.S. possibly hitting Brazil in a semifinal in Miami. Big jackpot for the U.S. side.

If Brazil wins, then they play Mexico, who has a much easier ride in the knockout rounds, in Azteca.

It's fixed all right. But this is CONCACAF and this is why the Gold Cup is a joke. I generally don't lose sleep over it.

 

Plus the USA - Martinique game always packs the house.

 

Two out of three teams in every group advance, so unless you put US, Brazil, and Mexico in the same group (in Mexico), the US would be favored to advance in any group (and, if not in a group with Mexico in Mexico or Brazil anywhere, we'd be favored to win any group). So, absent a complete disaster, the US should go to the Quarters no matter who we play.

They would get more people in the seats having the US play a bigger, more popular, team in the group (same as Mexico playing Brazil in the group round, or the US playing South Korea in LA last time).

So, no, I don't think we were thrown Martinique to favor the US. They probably thought Trinidad would make it and pull a decent crowd to Foxboro, like they did on a Wednesday during WCQ. How many people do you think will turn out on a Monday night for US/Martinique? You, me, and 8 thousand of our friends, maybe.

However, it was set up so that Mexico and Brazil would meet in the group round, and then not again until the Final -- meaning the US would have to go through Brazil in a semifinal in Miami.

Basically, this setup favors Mexico getting to the final and Brazil earning CONCACAF several good paydays (in both Mexico City and Miami). In the end it will be decided on the field, although I would certainly have preferred that final at RFK than Azteca!

 

It sure looks that way, just like it did for the Confederations Cup, the World Cup, and more. Wait until we get the "random" draw for World Cup Qualifying.

 

is there a way i can find the dates of upcoming games that would be in miami? and after the 1st group stage, will any games be in miami? any possibilities?

 

MATCH SCHEDULE
DATE/FECHA (SITE/SEDE): MATCH/PARTIDO (TIME)
12.07.2003 (Foxboro): D1: COSTA RICA v D2: CANADA (13:00); C1: USA v C2: EL SALVADOR (18:30)
13.07.2003 (Mexico City): A1: MEXICO v A2: BRAZIL (12:00); (Miami): B3: JAMAICA v B1: COLOMBIA (15:00)
14.07.2003 (Foxboro): D2: CANADA v D3: CUBA (18:30); C3: MARTINIQUE v C1: USA (20:30)
15.07.2003 (Miami): B2: GUATEMALA v B3: JAMAICA (19:00); (Mexico City): A2: BRAZIL v A3: HONDURAS (20:00)
16.07.2003 (Foxboro): D3: CUBA v D1: COSTA RICA (18:30); D3: C2: EL SALVADOR v C3: MARTINIQUE (20:30)
17.07.2003 (Miami): B1: COLOMBIA v B2: GUATEMALA (20:00) (Mexico City): A3: HONDURAS v A1: MEXICO (21:00)
19.07.2003 (Foxboro): QF1: WINNER GRP C v 2nd GRP D** (15:00); QF2: WINNER GRP D v 2nd GRP C** (18:00)
20.07.2003 (Mexico City): QF3: WINNER GRP A v 2nd GRP B** (12:00); (Miami): QF4: WINNER GRP B v 2nd GRP A** (16:00)
23.07.2003 (Miami): SF1: WINNER QF1 v WINNER QF4 (20:00)
24.07.2003 (Mexico City): SF2: WINNER QF2 v WINNER QF3 (21:00)
26.07.2003 (Miami): THIRD-PLACE MATCH (semifinal losers) (20:00)
27.07.2003 (Mexico City): FINAL (semifinal winners) (12:00)

 

I didnt think it was rigged at all actually because of Mexico and Brazil being in the same group, but I forgot that international soccer often features only 1 team getting knocked out per group in the group stage.

If it goes to "form":

QFs:
====
(Foxboro) QF1: USA v Canada (15:00);
(Foxboro) QF2: Costa Rica v El Salvador (18:00)
(Mexico City) QF3: Mexico v Jamaica/Columbia (12:00)
(Miami): QF4: Columbia/Jamaica v Brazil (16:00)

SFs
====
(Miami): SF1: USA v Brazil (20:00)
(Mexico City): SF2: Costa Rica v Mexico (21:00)

3rd place
=======
(Miami): USA v Costa Rica (semifinal losers) (20:00)

Championship
==========
(Mexico City): Brazil v Mexico (semifinal winners) (12:00)

Hmm.. smells a bit like rigging after all.

God I hate our federation. Ultimately our road isnt bad at all, but damnit Id like it if we could pretend international competitions are remotely fair.

 

You mean the random qualifying draw that allowed us to open at home against the toughest team in the federations? The draw whereby we qualified with a game in hand despite a rough stretch in the middle?

The "rigged" World Cup draw that you said was set up to send us home, yet we advanced to the quarterfinals?

Oh, yeah. Those draws.

 

Now that I've thought about it a little bit, this scenario could come back to bite CONCACAF in the a$$ if Honduras, by some chance, knocks out Mexico. Admittedly, this will be challenging given that Mexico-Honduras will be played at the Azteca, but its not impossible.

Don't get me started on the confed cup draw again - that was just an embarrassment.

 

Or if Columbia knocks off Mexico in the quarters.

As long as tournaments like the Confed and Gold Cup are run by invitation and with marketing more important than performance, the draws will be like this.

 

It is refreshing to see that more US fans are coming around to the viewpoint that "random" draws aren't so random after all. If you had a discussion among Brazilian fans, German fans and so on, you would find few people defending how "random" the draws are.
Even Atouk, one of the most astute observers of the USMNT is saying it. (If I am misconstruing your views Atouk, my apologies). This time, CONCACAF admitted that other "considerations" could affect the pairings. I wish FIFA would be as candid. They say it is random but lots of people think it is not.

 

I think the big question is whether or not Bruce calls up David Regis to play against Martinique. I think for all he's done for US Soccer, Regis deserves a send-off game and having him play against the country where he was born is a good way to do it.

Regis for Gold Cup!!! Heck, I may even change my screen name to advocate that.

 

I never read CONCACAF announce it would be a random draw. On their initial announcement they said the schedule was "announced today," but not drawn. They didn't tell us much about the process in '03 (for '02, see below). CONCACAF said itself that it would place the Interzone teams where it wanted -- "The precise placement of the Interzone qualifiers will be determined following completion of the playoff, based on competitive, commercial and security concerns."

In 2002, CONCACAF said they seeded the teams into three groups (that made sense to me: A - Cup Holder Canada and WCQ teams, B - winners of the CA & Carribean qualifying competitions and the guests, and C - the rest), they "placed" them into groups taking "into consideration competitive and commercial concerns as well as previous editions of the Gold Cup."

http://www.concacaf.com/graphics//newsletters/pdf/December01/December2001.pdf
(2002 info found here)

If you basically seed teams right (place them in fair "pots"), but it would be more commercially viable to have Jamaica in Miami or Canada in Foxboro, it's not a big deal. Similarly, if you think there are legitimate security issues with putting Cuba in Miami, then put them in Foxboro, so long as you're moving around teams from the same "pot" when you do it.

The criteria couldn't have been the same this time (see Group B), but basically, these seem about fair except for the Mexico/Brazil group. It seems CONCACAF wanted Mexico to send a strong team and gave them the carrots of a home group, an all-home route including the Final, and a guaranteed game with Brazil, to make sure it happened.

In the end, this will be decided on the field, not by whether we play Martinique, Cuba, or Guatemala in the first round or Costa Rica or Brazil in the semis.

The World Cup has no such problems about financial viability, so I'd think there is much less incentive to fix the draw. As it is, one of the seeded teams should win the thing, and they seem to do a fair job of spreading around the rest of the teams. Likewise, our WCQ system seems to me to be fair.

So, Tom, I haven't changed my position. CONCACAF didn't tell me it was a random draw, so I didn't think it was. FIFA said it was for the World Cup (within the limits of who is placed in each pot), and I have no real position on the question, other than to assume it was fair. The Confederations Cup? I would have liked to have seen them pull those balls out of those pots, that's for sure!

 

The financial aspect is a huge disincentive to fix something like that. How do you think the fine people at Coca-Cola, et al, would feel sponsoring a fraud.

It only takes one slip of the lip.

 

Of course it's rigged...It's a CONCACAF tournament...However, it's not been rigged to favor the US, but Mexico instead....BTW, i am not joking...The last two Gold Cup the placements were made so that Mexico got to the final ( i heard that being said by a pro-Mexico rasdio broadcaster)
The problems was that Mexico still managed to lose to Canada (99) and Korea (2001), so go figure!
This time being at home, they might actually manage to win their own rigged tournament

 

Good post, Atouk. I don't think you have changed your position at all. I meant more and more US fans are saying what the rest of the world is saying.
My only point of disagreement is that there was no financial incentive to rig matches or seedings at the World Cup. Korea could not even give the tickets away. FIFA needed Korea to go far in the tournament to sell out some games. In my opinion, that is why we had people like Byron Moreno, Urs Meier and Hugh Dallas getting the big games. I cannot recall the name of the referee for the Spain-Korea match.
Just my opinions.

 

sux for Honduras.