One semi-tangential point to this discussion: reffing and bias. I agree with Haig that there is no MLS bias towards DCU. I disagree that the calls all equalized out (good and bad). My take is: you reap what you sow. We have earned the rep this season as a team that tries to get teams out of their game, engages in a lot of gamesmanship and talks a lot of trash. It's not that we're an overly physical team. It's that we complain a lot, focus on the ref a lot, whine and complain and are generally a real pain to ref. I think the consequence is that we've earned a lot of "ill will" and there are probably no refs in the league who look forward to being on the pitch in one of our games. In the end, I think that hurts us. I think Guevara and Ruiz are in somewhat similar situations--b/c both have earned reps for their theatrics, I think there are probably some legitimate fouls both earn that don't get called by refs b/c of their reps.
I use DCU as an example of what NOT to do with respect to refs when I coach my youth teams. On at least 2 occasions at RFK this year, we gave up goals because we had 1-2 players bitching to the refs about a call while the other team counterattacked. I was able to point out that (Chino or Stoich, Convey, Etch, etc.) were too busy trying to get in the ref's face to track back and play D and watched the play develop and lead to a goal merely 15 seconds after the supposed bad call. I couldn't have drawn up a better example if I tried. Oh, yeah...Goff is one of the main reasons I still subscribe to the Post - we are lucky to have him.
1) I sort of agree with this... I can't stand it when teams I play on focus on the refs -- almost always burns you at some point. Maybe not today, but at some point. And it's very contagious... Having Hristo and Marco simply fuels the fire and it takes amazing restraint for others not to follow their lead. It sucks and is one of my MAJOR criticisms of Hudson -- he needs to crack down on this next season, if he's at the helm. 2) All that said, counter examples of "the ref's are out to get us" include Hristo's dive against Columbus and Marco's dive earlier in the season (against NE? to start that comeback?). I agree with whoever said before that bad calls in MLS even out... But if we DO come out slightly on the negative side, we can point to our coach and a few of the players as prime reasons for this.
Thanks to all who passed along kind words. Analysis stories are always tricky to write because, as a beat writer, I have to be careful about expressing too much opinion. My goal is to write an edgy evaluation while remaining fair. I go through each point and ask myself, am I being fair? I think I accomplished that in this case, although some will interpret things differently. That's fine, I have no problem with that. Is it fair to say Stoitchkov probably won't be considered for the Dallas job? After shoving a teammate in a playoff game, yes, I think that's fair. Is is fair to say Hudson's job is at stake and that he could be replaced by a current MLS assistant, such as Johnston? After two straight losing seasons and a playoff bomb, yes, I think so. The only other item that I wanted to address was whether I "hate" the team. I don't hate the team. I don't love the team. It doesn't bother me when they lose and I don't get excited when they win. I don't hate the league and I don't love the league. I'm a journalist, not a fan, and I try to provide coverage that the public deserves. I do, however, enjoy and respect the sport and understand how deeply it means to the DCU fans and to so many people around the world.
Someone help me with where all the draft picks went - 1st rounder - to Dallas for Cerritos 2nd rounder - to Chicago for Stoitchkov 3rd rounder - to ??? for ??? Historically, MLS drafts tend to alternate between good and not-so-good and since 03 was a humdinger, perhaps 04 won't be as deep so this won't sting as much. At the same time, there will be some talent out there. Most of the college kids on the U20 team will take P40 deals before the draft, so too could some of the kids from the last U17 team and maybe even a few U18 kids. Plus there are some other upper classmen who could be P40 and there are a lot of good college seniors out there. In otherwords, Dallas, Chicago and perhaps ???, will likely end up with a good player. And I'd say the odds that whomever Chicago takes at 13 will contribute more to the Fire next year than Stoitchkov will here. As for this silly Goff debate, before I go to bed I go to the Washington Post's site and if Goff has an article I read it. I don't do that for anyone else. That should speak for itself. That said, I read it knowing that it ain't the Book of Gospel. It's good journalism but it's my, and all of our, job (s) to take what he reports and filter out what he says is fact and what he is speculating about. Sometimes when he speculates, he's wrong. But, that happens to all reporters and I would rather that Goff speculate and be wrong once in a while than not speculate at all and cost us all the times when he's right.
Apparently, DCU's third-round pick belongs to KC as part of the arrangement that allowed DC to sign Quintanilla last season. Only in MLS...
fwiw, Ed, I thought you did as good if not better than Goff. You got me to subscribe to a paper, he hasn't ;-) (if he wrote twice a week on United, I would). That's not to swell your head and say you were a better journalist, but you tended to be more indepth and more verbose. I'm sure it helped that you were the editor (correct?) and you got more space to write in than you would have at the Post. I also look forward to the (less frequent) Marco10 articles. I viewed all 3 as different though, and came at them with different expectations. I like to read Marco10's stuff when I want to know someone was as pissed as me after a game, or read some good nicknames and wordplay. I just ask all 3 of you to keep up the good work!! Yes, Ed, I know yours are harder to find now, and thanx for still doing the good work for free now.
Although MLS rules preclude trading Discovery picks, they don't preclude trading discovery players ("Teams may trade Discovery players but may not trade Discovery player 'spots' -- http://www.mlsnet.com/about/regulations/ ). Was Quintanilla then officially on the books of the Wiz for a few minutes and traded? Or did we have to "pay them off" for not getting in front of us in some kind of Discovery pick pecking order? Here's the United press release when we signed him: http://www.dcunited.com/index.cfm?section=team&cont_id=115163 It says we "acquired 19-year-old El Salvador National Team forward Eliseo Quintanilla as a Discovery player." No mention of Kansas to be found, but no mention of whose Discovery pick or "spot" he was either. Can you fill us in on how it officially went down? Thanks.
So, let's take a quick inventory of what we've learned here today: 1) When we see the word ANALYSIS at the top of stories, we will understand that it is not a straight news story and the writer is injecting some of his/her opinion into it. 2) The free food and game passes the DC front office have been giving to the boys at unitedmania.com seem to have purchased a fairly unskeptical worldview from said "writers." 3) Marco's real name appears to be Pollyanna. He writes: I am neither wild nor paranoic, I simply point out that he has a very negative tone because he chose to write about things that are negative. He could have chosen differently, and been equally as justified. That the way he chose to write is defended by posters equally pessimistic as he is somewhat justifies my point. See point #2. The last time I checked, the buffet was pretty average in the RFK media room. If they're buying you off with bad hot dogs and Aquafina, well . . . 4) Marco continues: As for my feeling "justified". I say that because I never claim to know more than I do. I do not claim to have "sources" to back up whatever view I choose to write about. Duh. The thing I love about this quote is that "sources" is in quotes. As if, you know, that were a bad thing. 5) Note to the unitedmania boys: "I'd just like to say... GET A LIFE, will you people? I mean, for crying out loud. I mean, look at you, look at the way you're dressed! I mean, how old are you people? What have you done with yourselves? You, you must be almost 30... have you ever kissed a girl?
Excellent! I love that SNL episode and that quote. Changing geats, Quintanilla for a third rounder actually sounds like a pretty good deal. But Cerritos and Hristo for 1 and 2 (particularly since they are high picks in the draft) seems a little to rich a price to pay for the production we've gotten and will get from them. I mean, I can assure you there isn't a team in MLS that's gonna give us a first rounder this winter for Cerritos. This trade wasn't as bad as when Payne got fleeced for a boatload of picks to bring Raul back, but it's in the same class.
If every village has an idiot, it seems like every MLS team has some moron Internet writer who thinks he knows it all. Goff is the best soccer writer out there. He is more than good enough to write about other, more "high-profile" sports at any paper. United fans should sit around the table this Thanksgiving and give thanks that they have a guy who writes about soccer in a tough-minded way, a guy who knows better than to cheer in the press box (like the wannabe on this board who is not fit for any publication but a fanzine). How else are you really going to know what the hell is going on with your team? Isn't that what we all want?
Why was the Goff thread stickied and closed? I understand there was a Goff lovefest going on....and I agree Goff's a great writer But my one main complaint is there's not enough coverage I was going to say the Metros have great coverage. Yeah I'll get killed on this board for maybe saying that-but for example they had articles Wednesday, Tuesday, Monday, Sunday, and Friday. Maybe it's $. Metros have MSG and so seem to always be on TV
That's it! I've had it with the incessant crap from all sides in this journalism "debate"! Everyone is on notice that I will start deleting posts of ANYONE that continues to engage in this mud slinging about who is the "better" journalist! In place of your post I will write the following: At this point I don't care who you are and whether your target is Goff, Bergin, Martin, Dyson, Morgan, Prenderlaith, etc... Enough already! If you want to challenge their opinions do so without engaging in attacks on their integrity unless you have FACTS that you are prepared to reveal to impeach what the writer has claimed!
OK it wasn't stickied seems to be dropping on the board (hmmm...maybe the lock has something to do w/it).... Anyways a big thanks to Goff for his writing. His match reports are maybe the only match report descriptions I look forward to reading even after I've seen the game!
... a note from one of the other mods ... Maybe revelation and I disagree and if we do we can talk about it elsewhere but I think this thread should stay open. I agree with revelation that things have gotten rather personal these last couple pages and some posters probably did step over the personal attack line. So I agree with revelation that this thread should be moderated more closely and that from here on out anything remotely resembling a personal attack will be deleted. But I'm reopening this thread. Anyway, BudWiser has already effectively reopened it elsewhere and I'm gonna merge that new thread back into this one. Those posts will appear above this one.
True, but not as good as the Quintanilla-for-nothing (as a Discovery pickup) deal that I'd been thinking we'd got for the last 15+ months. As one of the ones who wants to know how MLS works (and when it sticks by its own rules and when it changes them) for the sake of knowing how it might work in the future, I'd still like to know what the official transaction was.
Dude, If you can't engage in this kind of speculation on an internet board, where can you? It's not like we're talking about Quaranta knocking up his girlfriend, is it? Commentary on commentary . . . it's what the internet is allllllllllllll about. If all we're allowed to do is say nice things, it's gonna be a pretty quiet offseason. Which is pretty much the point about Marco's post -- the team would be very happy for this to be characterized as an "interesting" offseason or a "challenging time" instead of what it is: another dreary close to a fourth straight dreary season. And that, my friend, is a fact.
I find it humorous that all of the people accusing MArco10 of being an internet nut (and by default a loser) have each spent over 30 minutes (at least) crafting BS responses to his post. It's even funnier to see that the same people choose to ignore the 10 previous posters that did the exact same thing... Ah the off season is great Revelations right. Move along kids there is plenty of other real stuff to fight about.
Ok, I have to chime in. If Goff has an article in the Post, then I shell out the $.35 and buy it. If it doesn't, I save ten cents and buy the Times. Thanks for all of your coverage of United Mr. Goff.
Re: Why was the Goff thread stickied and closed? Yeah, the Metros television coverage is great. There's no radio coverage to speak of, but so what. But as for print media... Internet access to smaller newspapers is giving you a bit of a distorted picture. Ives Galarcep is in the top tier of MLS team beat writers, without a doubt... but his paper, the North Jersey Herald, is limited in its readership to parts of Bergen County and the Paterson area. The Star Ledger is a bigger paper, and offers decent Metrostars coverage, but it's not that good. It's pretty much limited to day-of-game previews and post-game wraps. The big papers-- the NY Times, NY Daily News, and the NY Post, on the scale of the Post in terms of local importance-- cover the Metros with far less detail or frequency than the Washington Post deals with DCU. (And the Post and Times have national standing; put them side-by-side and the Post is miles better in soccer coverage.) Sure, DCU in the Post isn't what it was, but regular reporting on the Metros is limited to the minor leagues of the papers around here. I'm happy with what we have, but Goff gives DCU a way higher profile than the Metros get through Yannis et al. at the Times.
My apologies to one and all. Especially to Steven Goff. I took shots at him mainly because I felt angry that it seemed to be an article that was kicking a team that was down after they had clearly been through a traumatic season. As is no doubt the case with most of you, I feel pretty passionate about DC United and let my mood replace actual intelligent views on the subject. I would apologize to others specifically, but there might not be room for that as it seems most of the known universe has been offended by my ill conceived criticisms of Goff and his writing! I agree that I lashed out in a pretty petty and stupid way, and will refrain from that in the future. Thanks for setting me straight.
I look forward to your articles and think you do a fine job covering the finest club on the planet. But man, that bit about not being a fan...it must suck to be you. ;-)
Marco, solid of you to admit when you've messed up. You get my respect if the respect of a Metros fan means anything to you.
I've been deliberately avoiding this topic for a while, because I got caught out on a nearly identical contretemps on a different discussion board some time ago. While it might be a little inappropriate, given the way this discussion seems to be heading, I still think it's finally time to say something that I've been meaning to say for a very long time. It's a question of perspective. And I think everyone involved in this discussion--and I do mean EVERYONE--needs to take a step back, take a deep breath, and think a little. We are talking about a person who provides a service--a service for which we should all be grateful, and for which that person's editors see fit to compensate him in whatever fashion is appropriate. But let's keep that service in perspective. Goff is reporting on the antics of a group of grown men who get paid to play a game that 90% of the American populace couldn't give a damn about. That's it. It's a job. It is a job very well done, and a thorough effort to be applauded, but it's a job. He's not getting shot at in the Middle East, he's not tossing important questions at the President's mouthpiece, and he's not exposing the little peccadilloes of Congressmen, CEOs and bureaucrats. Mr. Goff, you're a sports reporter. Try to keep that in mind, especially when the internet nuts take a crack at you. In the opinion of this particular internet nut (which I'm well aware means less than nothing to you) it's a little inappropriate to cast the cloak of journalistic integrity over your own shoulders given what you report on. You work very hard, and you adhere to your principles, unlike others and despite great temptations, no doubt. I think that's very admirable. You do a great job. Don't let it go to your head. People, when you criticize him, take it up with him--I've found him to be unusually responsive. Keep in mind that he does a job that no one cares about but us, and the only feedback he gets is from us. Temper the criticism with a little appreciation, eh? It's not an easy job. He's been there from Day One, and he takes advantage of the inside position he's worked very hard to create. It's perfectly Ok to criticize his work--after all, WE are the people he works for in the most real sense--but do it in a constructive way. After all, do we really want the coverage done by somebody else? A rookie without all of the intimate contacts? Or worse still, do we want the coverage to end? Whether it's because the Post moves in a different direction, or he quits to do something else? Dan Stohr Springfield, VA danstohr@cavtel.net