There are many things that need to be accomplished in order to get an MLS team here in OKC. Obviously a SSS would be required (or closest to it) and ownership. Things that I think are in our favor are factors such as having no other highest level of sports competion and close proximity to Dallas and KC for rivalry purposes (definitely the Dallas one) to name a few. There are plenty of companies to support the team with advertising and a good soccer community with hotbeds of activity in Edmond and Norman (but then again, every city wanting a team says they have a great soccer community so that doesn't mean too much). It's my hope that we'll be getting an expansion team in the next round of expansion. We already have a lot more going then many other places do (such as having an ownership group in place and a stadium plan in the works). Stories in the news keep coming out that are nothing but positive and keep leading in the direction of a good possibility of getting an MLS team. Many people however are still very uneasy about MLS in OKC (or Okla. for that matter) due I'm sure to our population size and TV market rating. So I ask all of your what you think about it. What are the realistic pros and the realistic cons about it? I'm sure there will be much to talk about and hopefully all the questions asked will be able to be answered.
One BIG pro that may not have been discussed much: EXPRESS SPORTS. OKC Blazers drew over 10,000 fans for a MINOR LEAGUE HOCKEY game Saturday night against Wichita. Over 10,000 fans... and OKC is NOT a hockey "hotbed". The success of the Blazers is a tribute to that organization. I am confident they are very capable of building a good soccer fanbase. And I'm also confident that there are actually more potential soccer fans than hockey fans in OKC. They can promote and market and get all sorts of corporate tie-ins. Definitely a big plus.
well that is true... what I'm not certainly agreeing with you ius the fact that there are more soccer fans than hockey fans... i don't know if that is true...
Well, considering that probably less than half of 1% of those 10,000+ people actually get to participate in ice hockey it's pretty good. At the beginning people thought that ice hockey would never work in OKC and then the next thing you know we're leading North America in minor league hockey attendance. Not just the United States but the whole of North America. Express Sports knows how to run sports franchises. They know how to market and be successful. They are a definite bonus.
Sorry for the multiple posts, but caught this in The Oklahoman... Field not so bad in UCO victory http://www.newsok.com/cgi-bin/show_article?ID=938515&pic=none&TP=getarticle In my opinion, the opening paragraphs in the article above illustrate THE biggest drawback for a franchise in OKC/Edmond. Sharing a field with 3 high schools and an NCAA D2 college scares me: Thurs. night HS game on a rainy field followed by Friday night HS game on a rainy field followed by a Saturday afternoon D2 game the opposing coach terms "the poorest field I've seen in 20 years of coaching." What would happen if an MLS team was in the mix? With MLS talk of extending the season all the way to November, a number of potential playoff games could be affected (assuming the new team makes the playoffs the same way 80% of current MLS teams do). Of course, MLS has already experienced worse, with the Galaxy having to play a game at Fullerton and a potential situation in which this year's MetroStars would have played playoff games at a minor league baseball park. Kinda makes you wonder if field conditions became "unplayable," would it force an OKC team to relocate for playoff games? (i.e. Bricktown Ballpark or even Owen Field in Norman--football lines and all???). Even if MLS can be tolerant of stadium problems in LA, NY/NJ, or Chicago (Naperville), would it tolerate potential problems in a small market like OKC? I have no doubt that a new Wantland Stadium in Edmond would be first-class all the way as far as stadium design, immenities, etc. as Edmond woudn't settle for less, but...
I happened to see highlights of that game on TV. The field was a total pig pen. Watching that slop just made my blood boil over the fact that Express/MLS even believe sharing the field is an option. Why oh why don't they build the SSS at the existing "All Sports" stadium site ??? For that matter, why can't they just grow some bermuda on the infield and use the existing baseball stadium layout ???
Because then Express Sports would have to pony up all the cash themselves. All-Sports is also at a horrible location. There are some things that we have to remember about field sharing at UCO. Only about 10-15% of the MLS season will coincide with football season. Highschool games won't tear up the field nearly that much. UCO and the MLS team can try to work out something where the MLS plays at home one week while the UCO team is away and vice-versa. During football season MLS usually plays on Wed. or Thursday nights which means they'll play on the field first after 3-4 days of fixing it up after a weekend of play.
I have no doubt that a fancy turf system will be installed (Prescription Athletic Turf, etc?)... however, I don't think that there is a turf anywhere that can hold up under that kind of use... especially by pointyball... just look at the MLS cup field... the Big Razor is thought to have the newest and best in turf... there hadn't been a Patriots game there in 2 weeks... and it hadn't gooten really chewed up in any of the prior games... ...and still there were significant irregularities in the turf that contributed to funny bounces and a desire to play the ball in the air... one bad day in wet conditions would completely destroy the best soccer field (especially between the hash marks) and, if it happened after late September, the field would not recover until the spring... rand
Horrible location?? All-Sports is at the juction of I-44 and I-40, about 5-miles West of Downtown. Furthermore, the exit ramps from I-44 are already built to handle heavy traffic for the state fair and All-Sports crowds. How is that a bad location? Whereas Express/State-of-Okla could spend 2-4 million converting All-Sports into a former-baseball-but-now-soccer-specific-stadium... Stan
2-4 million to convert All-Sports is very very much wishful thinking. There's nothing to really convert. You'd have to raze the whole place then build a new stadium. There are also issues with the State Fair people the word is they want the place gone for more fair parking.
and Ummm... How much does it really cost to sod in bermuda on the infield, replace the burnt-out light bulbs, spruce up the bathrooms, move the temp-bleachers, and slap some paint around? I'm not talking about building a brand new stadium. Hopefully someday they will be able to build a brand new SSS in bricktown. What I'm talking about is a place to play soccer where the grass pitch will be in immaculate condition at all times. Not some spiffy stadium where the footy sucks because the ball has all kinds of weird bounces due to gridball games. All-Sports would not be a wonderful SSS after spending $2-4 million. In fact it'd obviously be a converted baseball field with old bathrooms. However, All-Sports is centrally located, has great highway access, and most importantly the only field-wear will come from soccer boots and slide tackles. "nothing to really convert... " yeah right... Stan
They wouldn't have to drop the field 2-3 feet for drainage purposes. The PAT solution is only needed when gridball games put so much wear on a field that is wet. Simple drainage would suffice on a field that only has soccer being played upon it. If I'm correct, they've been using simple drainage in England for decades... Also, the lighting system is relatively new and should be in good shape regardless of how long its been. Regarding ADA laws: Since the entrance is at ground level and there is a walkway at that level, it doesn't seem too far fetched that HC seating can be placed there. Yes, the bathrooms are sure to need work to comply with new codes. Seating: Yes, some seats in the existing permanent seating bowl would need replacement. I don't believe it needs complete renovation, it was constructed out of concrete and steel after all. I'm sure the left-field hill would probably be best to add permanent seats. In the outfield, temporary bleachers (of small size for safety concern) would be all that is needed. Heck, it might be best to just leave the outfield fence for advertising purposes and no outfield seats. ========== I suppose you're right that SFP/All-Sports is not possible. However, there must be a better alternative than being the 4th tennant at a gridball field !!! Stan
An MLS team will not be 4th tennant at the new stadium. It would be 1st because it's the one that would be making all the money. Between March and November UCO will have a guaranteed tennant and money rolling in. Bronco football will not be the ones putting butts in the seat. They won't be the ones getting money and exposure from being on TV, they won't be the one's getting name recognition and print space every week in newspapers across the country. The MLS will. What else would they do with the stadium outside of football season? Also, with the design of the stadium, it's going to be more like football that happens to be played on a soccer field rather then soccer that happens to be played on a football field. I also think you're underestimating the importance of good drainage. Nothing can ruin a game more then poor drainage. Having balls stop on a dime because they hit a soft spot on the field or passes stopping because they tried to go through puddle of water. I'd rather have balls that have the odd bounce every now and then rather than a pass that consistently doesn't make it to it's intended target. The brand new soccer field in Norman for OU has state of the art drainage and it's such a beautiful pitch. Soccer's the only thing played on it too but it was obvious great drainage was a neccesity. I think we all agree that a downtown location would be the ideal but at this point it's not going to happen. Maybe in the future but not now. The SFP is out. I remember there being talk early on about the possiblity of building a stadium out by Lake Hefner. I'm not sure what location they were talking about or why they didn't pursue it (my guess is the though of not have to foot the whole bill of construction had something to do with it).
The field is much too narrow with no way of expanding it. Also OU doesn't like anybody else playing with their toys so to speak.
a few musings... First, I don't see a huge amount of difference between New England and OKC in rainfall and temp. (barring the occasional "nor'easter"): Oct avg temp/rainfall in inches Boston: 55/3.1 Oklahoma City: 63/2.5 Dallas: 68/2.7 Seattle: 52/4.0 Oklahoma thunderstorms are still Oklahoma thunderstorms... a season with this kind of rain/schedule would have been a mess... Good to hear thoughts about a new field with different sodding and better drainage... sports articles imply football officials want artificial turf. I don't take a whole lotta stock in the idea that HS/D2 football doesn't tear up the turf like NFL teams or D1 colleges... last week the marching bands "marched" on the asphalt track... after track is removed, well... bands and any football players with cleats can mess up a field for soccer... if a case can be made that Wantland will not be worse shape than Columbus, Foxboro, etc., I guess it'll work... after all, the worst wear and tear on a field in my opinion would come not from football but from the occasional "Rolling Stones concert"... I also don't like State Fair Park as a location... okay... "location= proximity to roads" is fine... Edmond may not be ideal as a central location but the area is nicer and the stadium itself would be nicer... please no "bare bones" projects... no half-a$$ed rehabbed 89ers ballpark or Taft Stadium project... if MLS wants to be perceived as "major league" it needs major league facilities, not a bunch of rehabbed minor league ballparks/high school stadiums...
Well, I think y'all are overestimating the importance of drainage. I doubt all those stadiums in England have french drains under them. Many of the ones I see on TV have ditches on the sides of the pitch. You guys keep relying on the fact of MLS' investment will make them the primary tennant out of four tennants. I just don't buy that at all. The Edmond stadium will have gridball every Friday night in the fall come hell or high water. The stadium will be on UCO property, so they're going to want plenty of control. In my mind, the MLS team will be lucky to be in 2nd place on the depth chart. I just don't understand how folks can think that a grass field with 3 football teams is going to be in good enough shape to play top-level soccer. The sidelines will be trampled by the football team's bench-areas. The middle of the pitch will be worn out by the football trench battles. The pitch will be very uneven with only splotches of grass here-and-there, Yuck !!!
I assume you are talking about the OU women's soccer field which is brand new with sweet lighting. If so, then I've figured the problem there is lack of beer sales. The stadium only has about 200-seats, so that would have to be addressed. There is plenty of parking at the basketball stadium, however those spots are a couple blocks away... I have no idea if the University would have a problem with MLS playing on their new field. In the past, OU has hosted a professional football game or two and hosted many many concerts. OU would die for a professional golf tournament to be played on their 7200yd course. Unless the soccer coach has a problem, I kinda doubt that the MLS would be unwelcome...
The alternatives I have been proposing are not in my mind intended to be long-term solutions. IMO, the only long-term solution for all MLS teams is to have a SSS ! My alternative is to play at All-Sports for 5-years. Over that time hopefully the crowds will show up in sufficent numbers to get OKC off their arse and contribute to a SSS. Then State Fair Park can have their new parking lot.
Just a quick questioni, does anyone have any idea or can hint at a clue as to when the town hall type meeting with Express Sports and officials from MLS will be? In an article several weeks ago it was stated that there would be on in the coming weeks. Just curious as to when that might happen. Mike, you got that hook up? Anything you can tell us?
Originally posted by Mike Segroves What I see as the differences between OK and NE, in terms of climate is the 8 degrees of higher average temperature, still warm enough to evaoprate water rather than have it percolate into the soil and the fact that July, Aug, and Sept are traditionally "drought months" with little if any rainfall for Oklahoma where the seasonal rainfall in NE is more constant. And I would counter that the difference is between New England "drizzle" and Oklahoma "rain" and between the occasinal NE "nor'easter" and the occasional OK "thunderstorm." Certainly more years than not, Foxboro would have more of a problem than OKC but THIS YEAR has been just the opposite... besides, I don't really buy the argument that the Pats playing every other week at Gillette is the same situation as having 3 HS teams and D2 college games (guaranteeing at least a couple of games per week-- not incl. MLS team). Drainage can only do so much... cleats on the field and benches on the sidelines will even have adverse affects on a completely dry field... If there are two cities in the OKC metro where the "soccer families" have as much or more pull than the "football families", it's Edmond and Norman. And I cannot for the life of me believe that Express Sports would not be even negotiating with UCO if they didn't have an agreement favorable to Express Sports already in place. I'm sure they (Express) have a favorable agreement for the summer... the problem is having 5 teams share the same stadium in Sept/Oct/Nov??? This situation at Wantland (according to the local papers) happens EVERY YEAR... this year was just worse because of the extra rain... The scary thing for me is that most of us realistically thought the problem wouldn't affect more than a couple of games... now that MLS is talking about extending the season and postseason all the way to November?!? this suddenly becomes a big issue... in other words, I don't think the Aggie soil specialists in Stillwater are miracle workers. I just wonder how the costs would work if a "field turf" is installed for fall football season only (back to grass in the spring)... we've already seen that probably the biggest problem with "plastic grass" is the heat on an artificial field during a summer game (if you thought Naperville was bad, just wait till you see a 100 degree game on "field turf" in Edmond... fall "field turf" I can almost live with (compared to the wear and tear on an "well-drained" grass field)... UCO college newspaper article (posted by jmeissen) mentions MLS but then goes on about installation of artificial turf... hmmm... I'm sure MLS will be "first tenant" from April through August, but come Sept, MLS I seriously doubt that even Express Sports has enough $$$/clout to remain "first" priority over UCO and EPS...
My question: how much "good philanthropy" could the potential I/O afford, in terms of perhaps paying for grid stadia on the campus of each HS in question? How about a secondary stadium for the high schools? Is the land there? Such a solution certainly provides more potential revenue for the schools involved.