Goal of the Week: Clark and Mullan

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by TyffaneeSue, Jul 5, 2005.

  1. losgatosfan

    losgatosfan New Member

    Feb 21, 2005
    Los Gatos, CA
    I guess it's just an example of how people really see things differently. I see that defender, and to me he is clearly further upfield than Mullan and Mullan's defender. My eyes and brain tell me Mullan is clearly offsides. I'm using the sidelines and their angle to infer the 90 degree cross field line (as well as early in the video you can see the midfield stripe to help get a sense for things).

    But I understand that others are seeing it differently.....and that's your perspective.
     
  2. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    pink arrows....the center of gravity (which is used to determine "the line" of the last two defenders, ie I see these two as equally far back. The yellow line....the center of gravity of defender closest to Mullan, not the last man.
    Green arrow, how far Mullan is offside....roughly 1 - 2 feet and no steps.
     
  3. losgatosfan

    losgatosfan New Member

    Feb 21, 2005
    Los Gatos, CA
    Great picture - obviously, the art is in figuring out where to draw the line across the field. Yours seems pretty accurate, and is what I was envisioning. As I posted, Mullan's back foot was just past the defender's front foot, so if that means no steps offsides, then I agree.

    Bottom line, very close, but offsides. But I've seen many worse calls, and as someone pointed out if the defender was beat hadn't stopped and raised his hand, he could have caught up to Mullan and at least fouled him to prevent the break. Great play by Mullan to put it away, and that's the breaks.
     
  4. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, I think this is the point and why the Dallas fans should let it go. As poor offside calls go, this one isn't going on any lists because this was a tough one because it's close and defenders to compare him with are rather far away. We've seen far worse offside calls not going our way this year. I can't recall that any were as clearly game changing as the Chivas DeRo one, but plenty that get a higher score on the "bad call" meter. And your point is right, if a player gives up on the play before the whistle, what do they expect? That's the reason Jeff Parke of the Metros got burned by New England last week....assumed a foul was gong to be called, it wasn't and the NE player just took the ball and headed for the goal.

    Good finish by Mullan!
     
  5. Beckham7

    Beckham7 Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Northern, California
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    -B
     
  7. SoccerMan94043

    SoccerMan94043 Member+

    May 29, 2003
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One problem with the photo (thanks for the pic btw): the white line is not parallel with the 18 yard line. If you tilt it slightly to be parallel, Mullan is a lot closer to being onside. Your image makes me think it may have been a good non-call (when I thought otherwise while watching the video).
     
  8. losgatosfan

    losgatosfan New Member

    Feb 21, 2005
    Los Gatos, CA
    Actually, it's virtually impossible to tell if the line is correct or not. Because of the tricks of depth/perspective, it looks like it's not, but that is the result of the camera angle, as well as likely lens effects. Try looking at the field next time you are in a similar angle in person, and you'll see that a line that IS parallel to another line further away from you doesn't really look parallel.

    That's the point the other posters have made about the bad angle making it very hard to really tell whether he is offsides or not. The only time two lines that are parallel really look completely parallel is if they are right in front of you or if they are at 90 degree angles to you.
     
  9. Sanguine

    Sanguine Member

    Jul 4, 2003
    Reston, VA
  10. FAS

    FAS Member

    Jun 5, 1999
    Los Gatos
  11. alliu23

    alliu23 I'm a Yank til I Die

    Jul 28, 2004
    Williamsport, PA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    wow.. first Quake to get a GOTW

    yey Rico!
     
  12. sonofapitch

    sonofapitch New Member

    Feb 11, 2002
    Novato, CA
    Excellent!!!! Way to go, Rico! :D
     
  13. FAS

    FAS Member

    Jun 5, 1999
    Los Gatos
    is there already an official Rico thread? If not there should be, if so, can someone dig it up and make it current? This guy is fast becoming one of my favourites.
     
  14. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is no AR to be found.

    Can anyone else spot him on the clip anywhere?
     
  15. FAS

    FAS Member

    Jun 5, 1999
    Los Gatos
    i think the AR was also doing the camera work cos they didn't send a television crew.
     
  16. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct. Consider this photo:

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, the various railroad tracks, lights and streetlines run mostly parallel to one another in reality, but in the photo they obviously are not. Artists refer to the point at which those points intersect (or would intersect should you continue them) as the "vanishing point."
     
  17. FAS

    FAS Member

    Jun 5, 1999
    Los Gatos
    This is true, but no matter how wide the zoom you will never actually see the lamps cross over the rail to the other side like we did with mullan (only saying this cos the rednecks aren't around any more :p )
     
  18. losgatosfan

    losgatosfan New Member

    Feb 21, 2005
    Los Gatos, CA
    It looks like the AR is on the side of the field that Mullan is on, ahead of the play. You can just see (I think) his shadow on the sideline showing he is way ahead of the play. You can't see it on these pictures, but I looked at the video and thought I saw it. But it's really hard to tell....
     
  19. clashcityrocker

    Mar 12, 1999
    In the shadow of RFK
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Well, Clark wins it, and deservedly.

    However, watching the clip again, I can't help but take note of the shambolic defending by Dallas on Kelly Gray. The ball pops up and they jump somewhere else. He collects it and falls down and they back away. He stumbles around and they light up a smoke and settle down for a look-see. What was going on there?
     
  20. Boz

    Boz RSL Family

    Jul 14, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Good job to Clark for goal of the weak. That was pretty sweet.
     
  21. Liverpool_SC

    Liverpool_SC Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    Upstate, SC
    You are crazy. Gbandi anticipated the pass, stepped up and had him trapped dead to rights. It was an absolutely terrible call. They don't get any easier than this one, simply because of how clear Gbandi made it wiith his body position. It wasn't even that long of a pass (so the AR should have been able to keep his eye on Mullen when the ball was played).

    And for all of those critiqueing Gbandi - the offsides trap is a perfectly legitimate tactic. One can argue with why he felt the need to appeal and not hustle back - but he defended Mullen properly. There was nothing wrong with his technique or execution on the play.

    And the picture above is very deceptive because of the perspective.

    I don't have a dog in this fight. I hate every game played at that little bandbox stadium and I would probably prefer the Earthquakes to beat the Dallas Horns. But that was such an egregious piece of officiating that it is embarrassing that the league selected that goal to be featured for goal of the week. Especially when they could have buried it since the game was not televised.
     
  22. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

    May 20, 2001
    The NO SOCCER Zone
    It means that the train is obviously offside.
     
  23. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    You may be right. But how do you know Gbandi's position relative to the other two back Dallas defenders? To me it looks like those two are further downfield than Gbandi. But w/o having the right perspective who can say definitively either way? I'm sure there are Dallas fans that will claim they were there sitting at the right spot to see it. But people tend to see what's happening sometime after the pass is made, not at the time the pass is made.
     
  24. FAS

    FAS Member

    Jun 5, 1999
    Los Gatos
    I respectfully disagree, he gave up on the play when he was the best positioned player to make things hard for Mullan, offside or not he should have played the whistle.
     
  25. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So let me get this straight:

    Everyone here is looking at the same photo of Mullan and the defender, but only you understand the subtleties of perspective.

    Thanks. That helps.
     

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