Goal Keepers: After Basketball.

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Deuteriumoxide, Dec 25, 2003.

  1. Deuteriumoxide

    May 27, 2003
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it is fairly accepted on these boards that Basketball playing throughout the developmental years has helped our goalkeepers (Howard, Friedal, did Keller play Basketball?) with skills like hand eye coordination, leaping, catching, throwing etc...

    So I wonder, what happens when our goal keepers start coming from the residency programs, and the kids don't play Basketball for half a year like they might in highschool or college?

    Fifteen years from now will we still be churning out great keepers?
     
  2. Keep87

    Keep87 New Member

    Apr 24, 2003
    North Carolina
    I don't think it will make that much of a difference....
     
  3. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I don't buy the whole "American players are better goalkeepers because they use their hands".

    It's not like basketball and volleyball aren't the world's #2 and #3 sports. Europe is awash in team handball, rugby. The old British empire has plenty of cricket players.

    Soccer isn't the only sport played around the world. Everyone else is out there "using their hands", too.

    I think we're just in the golden age of American goalkeepers, and we should enjoy it while it lasts.
     
  4. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Neither do I... Tim Howard probably benefited more from playing in midfield in high school than he did from playing basketball. (I remember some of the more astute ManU fans noting that Howard was two-footed, which is extremely rare among goalkeepers.)
     
  5. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Playing basketball definition helps. People who say it doesn't are nuts. The debate should be how much it helps.

    One thing is Howard has a HUGE vertical leap!!! Playing basketball helps builing those spring in your legs.

    Another thing is basketball helps you developing lateral quickness when you play defense. Good defensive players in baseketball are very quick moving sideways and backpetaling. That's not as easy as it looks on TV. Lateral quickness not only helps goalies in shotstoping, but helps them to move quickly for crosses as well.

    Playing basketball helps your reflexes. Playing defense requires a great deal of reflexes because you have to react quickly to different ball fakes, dribble drives, passing and shooting. Stealing and rebounding in basketball requires anticipation and reflexes. Getting to loose ball requires a great deal of reflexes as well.
     
  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Playing keeper on that team must be like drumming for the Foo Fighters.
     
  7. Steve Holroyd

    Steve Holroyd New Member

    Apr 19, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The rest of the world may play volleyball and basketball, but I think the U.S. is the only country where "hand" sports come first...if it's not basketball, it's baseball. American kids are simply exposed to these sports at a younger age, and with a greater "frequency." I don't know of too many English kids taking to cricket at an early age, for example.

    Long before the U.S. was churning out quality field players, it was producing world class goalkeepers. In the NASL days, the top Americans were invariably keepers...Rigby, Messing, Mausser, Mayer, DuBose, to name a few. Virtually all had chances to play overseas--Rigby got a lot of interest from Serie A clubs in 1976, for example--so it wasn't like they were stars by default (i.e., the NASL had to put 3 Americans on the field, so one might as well be the keeper).

    Mere hand-eye coordination is not enough, though; for all the acrobatic feats of the American keepers, the Jan van Beverens and Hubert Birkenmeiers and Volkmar Grosses of the NASL were considered the elite keepers because, what they lacked in hand-eye skills, they made up for in a soccer sense American kids simply couldn't acquire at the time. Particularly in the areas of coming off the line, when to punch v. when to catch, etc. The Howards and Friedels and Kellers are proving so dominant because they have both...the "inherent" American hand-eye skills and a developed soccer sense.

    Whether this is U.S. soccer "golden age" for keepers remains to be seen...personally, I think we'll always have an abundance of good keepers. The real question, I think, is whether the rest of the world will start producing goalkeepers just as comfortable with hand-eye coordination, particularly as basketball has been much more of a "major league" sport around the world in the last 10 years (whereas prior to that it was, well, like soccer was here).
     
  8. K.P.

    K.P. Member

    Mar 18, 2001
    Philly
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think Tim played midfield in high school. Do you know that to be true?
     
  9. Saeyddthe

    Saeyddthe Member

    Sep 5, 2003
    St. Looney ^the CB&J
    Yes he did, (although I thought it was forward).
    The story goes that his mom wouldn't let him play anymore because she was afraid he'd get hurt. The coach finally convinced her to let Tim play, but only on the condition that he play in goal....
     
  10. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The goalkeeper on my HS team was also on basketball team. I think he was a point guard. He used to be a field player, but he was not very good. One day, he deicided to play goalie in practice because the regular keeper was injuried.... next thing we knew.... our coach had seen the best keeper in his career.

    Even before Friedel and Howard, I always thought that basketball players made great keepers.
     
  11. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shot-stoppers.Not keepers.

    Please refer back to Steve Holroyd's post.
     
  12. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith New Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    London
    This is and has always been *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#. Oliver Khan, arguably the best goalkeeper in the world is German and didn't get his skills from playing hand sports.

    You have three good goalkeepers in the EPL at the moment, and only one could be described as world class, but even thats arguable as playing for Man Utd he often doesn't have a lot to do.

    It's fair to say that goalkeepers probably had a head start before 1994 as soccer just wasn't played as much so they would've grabbed their skills from playing the traditional sports in the same way that kickers in your football are traditionally soccer players. But with soccer becoming the largest youth participation sport that doesn't apply now does it?
     
  13. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith New Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    London
    Apologies, should have quoted Steve's post.
     
  14. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wholeheartedly agree with Mssr. Mead.

    These guys aren't great keepers because they played some other sports. They're great keepers because they're great athletes. They're big, rangy, strong guys with catlike quickness and agility, and reflexes that come from another planet.

    To our eternal good fortune, these three chose soccer. Basketball had nothing to do with it.
     
  15. K.P.

    K.P. Member

    Mar 18, 2001
    Philly
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Funny post. If you're going to pick one to describe as world class, most would pick Freidal.
     
  16. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    A lot of coaches today believe a good way to develop in one sport is to spend some time playing another sport.

    I cannot give you all the exact reasons because I don't rememer them anymore. It has been 3 years since I was in college. I just remember one of the reasons has to do wth stagnation of your physical development under repetitive sets of movements. Playing another sport also allows players to think outside the box.

    A lot of professional soccer players swim a lot.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Tim Howard and John Spector are encouraged to spend time playing baseketball by the coaches.
     
  17. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Much of Ireland. Canada. Australia. New Zealand. India.
     
  18. Sanguine

    Sanguine Member

    Jul 4, 2003
    Reston, VA
    If anything, our great keepers are due to the NHL. In that sport, goalies are superstars. I think that mentality has rubbed off on the country's soccer culture. Here, keepers aren't second-class citizens in their own sport. The position is as likely to get the good athletes as any other.
     
  19. dcufan1984

    dcufan1984 Member

    Feb 17, 2002
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    is tony coton the dave grohl of goalkeeper coaches? ;)
     
  20. dcufan1984

    dcufan1984 Member

    Feb 17, 2002
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    japan, south africa, the carribbean, and parts of scandinavia, russia (hockey), and eastern europe (basketball).
     
  21. Perugina

    Perugina Member

    Aug 7, 2003
    Grand Rapids MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    US and Keepers

    I'm 44 and still play in goal. I started in 7th grade because my teacher knew I had ball skills in volleyball, basketball, and softball. All three helped me in the transition to keeper. Digging vbs helped me get low fast. Softball helped bring home the concept of smothering the ball and not letting grounders go through your legs.

    I was always a cross sport person although in my 20's and later it came down to volleyball and soccer. Now? well....I've discovered Kung Fu ;)
     
  22. GKbenji

    GKbenji Member+

    Jan 24, 2003
    Fort Collins CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am a goalkeeper and keeper coach, and I've heard it said that if you are in need of a goalkeeper, go recruit a point guard or shortstop. I agree.

    Many of the skills and abilities used in those positions transfer very nicely to goalkeeping. All three require quickness, good footwork and ability to catch and handle the ball well. I definitely believe that cross-training with other sports is beneficial, not only to build skills but prevent burnout in youth players and get them primed to train hard once soccer season starts again.

    I don't think this is the entire reason the US has lots of good goalkeepers, but it certainly helps. I think another reason is simply the athleticism required for the position -- you can get by on sheer athletic ability in goal, for a while at least, much more than a field player. And the US has no shortage of great athletes.

    --
    "Stop all the ones you should, and a few of the ones you shouldn't"
    http://www.jbgoalkeeping.com
     
  23. striker

    striker Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    I heard a new remark about goalkeeping and American sports. I was watching the ManU match in Hong Kong on ESPN. Howard made a fairly routine stop of a low shot. The local announcers started telling us that Howard was good at low balls because he was brought up playing baseball, and hence was good at fielding ground balls. Next, we are going to hear that Americans are good at goalkeeping because we dive a lot as kids.
     
  24. Nimbus2000

    Nimbus2000 Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Mar 6, 2001
    New England
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can't remember the guy's name, but there is a first baseman in MLB who attributes his ability to dig bad throws out of the dirt to having been a hockey goalie.

    The following doesn't explain the production of world-class keepers but someone who's athletic and has an intuitive sense of positioning and angles can get by playing keeper for a long time. Some people, even very good field players, never "get" the mental basics of being a keeper others have it without ever being taught.
     
  25. supersoft

    supersoft Member

    May 3, 2002
    Baltimore
    This whole thread (and the whole idea) is misguided. The question shouldn't be why a nation of 280 million with soccer as the most played youth sport has as many as 3 (or 6! or 10!) "world class" goalkeepers. It should be why we have so few "world class" field players.

    As has already been said, good athletes can make good goalkeepers. I'd say that it's an easier position or takes less time to be good at (if not necessarily master) as compared to midfield or whatever.

    Maybe we could start a thread called "Field Players: Before Soccer" ?
     

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