Goal contribution of the best players

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Trachta10, Nov 4, 2020.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #1276 PDG1978, Apr 9, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
    Bene seems to have about 55% in 1965 (from all Ujpest goals - he missed one game when Ujpest scored one goal so it's more like 57% with Trachta's method), then nearly 50% in 1966 and 1967 (where his goals+assists per game is highest but Ujpest scored quite a few more goals than in 1966 and especially 1965). He has exactly 50%, factoring in missing two games where Ujpest scored 3 goals in total, in 1970/71, and close to 50% for 1972/73 too I see.

    Albert has 55% in his first full season in 1959/60 (mostly goals). He actually has 52.5% in 1961/62 I see - missing 4 games in which Ferencvaros scored 5, but lost twice notably (although scoring two goals in each of those games and it was against top end opposition). He has slightly over 50% in a short 1963 season, after the change back to calendar years (the table on Wikipedia doesn't show the correct Ferencvaros goal total that season, but I'm trusting them in general rather than double checking everything), then he has about 66% non-penalty goal contribution (scoring 1 penalty) in games he played in in the 1964 league season! He was out for 10 games, in which they scored 20 goals (the scoring rate in the 16 games he played was 2.375 so a decent bit higher but not way higher). I think he was starting to transition into more of a deep-dropping player setting up play around that time IIRC. He has 54% in games he played in in 1965 too, down to about 42% (missing one 0-0 draw, compared to a few games in 1965) in 1966 the year he starred vs Brazil in the World Cup, then on nearly 45% in games he played in 1967 when he won the Ballon d'Or and 47.5% in 1968, so his peak period will be pretty good for club goal contribution, even without any seasons with really high assist numbers (feasibly with the type of player he was he could have quite a few pre-assists maybe, but it's not really feasible to say he'll definitely have more of those than Bene...but considering games out injured for Albert and the fact Ferencvaros weren't the same as in the 1940s for overall goals scored, then Albert's goal contribution overall might not be worse than Bene's, except for total seasons above or very close to 50% maybe...but Albert has one in the 60-70% range, albeit he missed quite a few games so hard to know whether it'd still be around there if he hadn't).

    EDIT - Bene had about 47% in 1969 when Ujpest won the league (and won the cup, and got to the Uefa Cup Final - Inter-City Fairs Cup as it was called then, so his overall contribution rate could be interesting that season). I'd missed that one off at first glance even though it would have come to mind to check, maybe assuming it would be a bit lower than that without checking Ujpest's goals total or which game he missed, although it's not one of the ones where he was quite up at 50% anyway - seems apt to mention since I gave a run-down of Albert's seasons including some at lower 40-something percent though.
     
  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Sorry that's a typo - 1952 and 1954 for Kocsis I meant (unsurprisingly maybe when looking at the page for him)
     
  3. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Interesting stat

    Johan Cruyff has 16 hat-trick of assists

    [​IMG]

    Puskás at least 11 confirmed, but there are probably more, for example there are four game in the Magyar Kupa in which his team scored 52 goals in total, and there is no data.

    Pelé 8

    Messi 6
     
  4. xShion

    xShion Member

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Jan 23, 2022
    @Trachta10 Could you send me your Maradona spreadsheet for the National team?
     
  5. IceBlood34

    IceBlood34 Member

    Montpellier HSC
    France
    Jan 27, 2021
    Interesting mate !
    Have you updated the statistics of Di Stefano, Cruyff or other players, besides Puskas and Pelé?
    Like for example Bican?
     
  6. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1281 carlito86, Apr 14, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
    I think if someone really wanted to
    They could make a compilation of Cruyffs Barcelona assists

    Footage with stats helps to build a more accurate picture

    The hattrick of assists vs Feyenoord 1974 mentioned by Trachta is surprisingly available on YouTube

    Shades of Luca modric yesterday vs Chelsea on the 2nd assist at 1:08

    That was a trivela pass unless my eyes are deceiving me


    So is the 2 assists vs real Madrid 1973/74 available somewhere on YouTube

    Problem is they are all scattered on different channels

    Personally the 3 Barcelona players Whos assists id love to see compiled into a video format are Johan Cruyff,Micheal laudrup and hristo stoichkov
    The latter im almost certain is one of the most underrated playmaking forwards
     
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  7. gasipo

    gasipo New Member

    Juventus
    Canada
    Jun 8, 2021
    I could make a compilation, however Im not sure of the amount of assists that I will be able to find
     
  8. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1283 carlito86, Apr 17, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2022
    Sure

    If you could find 50 even including pre season friendlies that would be nice

    If i stumble across any i will post them here or somewhere else
    Vs Linz 1974/75


    2 OPTA assists
    0:12
    2:21


    One earned penalty assist at 3:05
    He was involved in the build up to this youll see if you rewind a few seconds earlier

    This would be another 'hattrick of assists'

    Taking him to 17 assuming this table is correct
     
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  9. anamnesis del fútbol

    Apr 9, 2021
    @xShion How many official goals does Zico have and how many from free kicks?
     
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  10. xShion

    xShion Member

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Jan 23, 2022
    395 for Flamengo.
    30 for Udinese.
    56 for Kashima.
    48 for the Brazilian national team.
    Total: 529 goals

    He has 89 free kicks counting in friendlies and 87 since he made his professional debut, but I don't just know the official ones (I'm still counting).
     
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  11. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    "Goal contribution hat-tricks"

    Every time the player scored or assisted at least three goals. (only non penalty goals counted)

    Pelé: 131
    Lionel Messi: 115
    Johan Cruyff: 81
    Cristiano Ronaldo: 74

    Pelé
    [​IMG]

    Lionel Messi
    [​IMG]

    Johan Cruyff
    [​IMG]

    Cristiano Ronaldo
    [​IMG]
     
  12. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    It probably can't be included as it's basically in a friendly (although quite high profile, well followed) tournament, but Pele has a hat-trick in 1957 (not sure about assists), playing for a Vasco/Santos joint team against Portuguese team Belenenses (who came 3rd in Portugal in 1956/57, just ahead of Sporting Lisbon):
    BOLA – Pelé was Edson and attracted Vasco in the first game against the Portuguese (Brazil). (newsbeezer.com)
    Pelé no Vasco 1957 - "O Eterno Rei do Futebol" - YouTube
    One of the goals on there is vs Flamengo
    The hat-trick vs Belenenses is shown here from 2:08
    Quando o Santos foi Vasco e o Vasco foi Santos - YouTube

    That's interesting to see Trachta anyway (your tables above): I know it might partly depend on era played in and suchlike (because it's based on a minimum total goal contribution number, not on percentages from team goals scored at all) but you definitely put in a lot of work and end up with great info in your tables! It's possible I suppose to gauge how important the contributions were by looking at the final scores and when goals were scored, as well as opposition and competition played in at the times. I was thinking of doing a check or run-down myself of that kind of thing, for best goals/assists for great players based on these videos I made, just out of interest (although the ones I included here are my own choices and also based on what I know to be available to see, so other choices could come into it)
    Best 3 Goals, 3 Assists of suggested Top 25 Football Players of 2nd half 20thCentury Part1 (#12-#1) - YouTube
    Best 3 Goals, 3 Assists of suggested Top 25 Football Players of 2nd half 20thCentury Part2 (#25-#13) - YouTube
    I know that Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo (as well as possibly others that played/starred mainly or only in the new century - not to mention players from the first half of last century even!) would be brought into it obviously. I guess Messi could have a fairly significant trio of best goals arguably actually (if including say his famous Getafe goal in the Copa Del Rey, his goal vs Real Madrid away in the 2010/11 Champions League, and perhaps his 2015 Copa Del Rey Final goal although maybe I doubt that one for inclusion in his top 3 even myself...I'm not sure and I can't rule it out I guess but I didn't feel it was the best goal ever or whatever was said by some people when he scored it anyway).
     
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  13. xShion

    xShion Member

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Jan 23, 2022
    in my opinion, some friendlies can be considered. For example the two UEFA SuperCup finals in 1972 (16/01/1973 | 24/01/1973)
     
  14. Younes4567

    Younes4567 New Member

    Mar 24, 2022
    Can you add for other players ??
     
  15. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    I will try
     
  16. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    I'm impressed with Mbappé, in that rating I like to do, he is in a very good position

    Goal contribution percentage, assists with a value of 1.5, and the goals against taken into account, this benefits players that played in stronger teams
    (Goals+assists*1.5 - penalties)/(Team GF+GA*0.5)

    Entire career
    [​IMG]

    Three seasons peak
    [​IMG]

    Mbappé reached 20k minutes at club level, so I made a comparision with other players at his first 20k minutes
    [​IMG]
     
  17. xShion

    xShion Member

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Jan 23, 2022
    @Trachta10
     
  18. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    @gasipo told me to don't share it because is not finished, maybe you can ask him
     
  19. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Hat-tricks without penalties

    Pelé: 67 (9 free-kicks, 37 headers)

    [​IMG]


    Lionel Messi: 43 (6 free-kicks, 3 headers)

    [​IMG]


    Cristiano Ronaldo: 32 (7 free-kicks, 18 headers)

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Prime Madjer

    Prime Madjer New Member

    Sep 18, 2021
    Did some quick calculations on my end, was very surprised not to see Matt Le Tissier included on the spreadsheet, unless I'm looking at the wrong update.

    [​IMG]

    Matt Le Tissier (1989-2001, Premier League & FA Cup)

    401 games, 158 goals (inc. 39 penalties) and 101 assists in 30,508 minutes.

    Southampton scored 474 goals (39 penalties) while MLT was on the pitch over the span of 396 games, leading to a goal contribution % of (158 - 39 + 101)/(474 - 39) = 50.49% !

    For his statistical 3-season peak (emphasis on statistical, as I personally think he was a much better player in his PFA YPOTY 89-90 season), he was directly involved in 87 of Soton's 151 non-penalty goals scored in his presence; 57.54% !

    Important to note that the analysis only includes data from the First Division/Premier League and the FA Cup, and excludes goals from the Full Members' Cup or the League Cup as assist data is much harder to find. All assists were calculated using Opta criterion - not that it makes much of a difference, as he was the main penalty-taker and wouldn't be credited an assist for converting his own penalties.

    The data also excludes the three seasons from 86-89, where Matt scored 16 goals in 55 games, as I haven't yet looked into his assist tally during that time.

    I'm sure your methodology is quite different, although I will say that I think it could be improved in some respects. But the GC% above really speaks volumes about (a) how central Le Tissier seemed to have been to Southampton's offensive play over more than a decade, and (b) his output matches that of Premier League greats even when excluding penalties. Bear in mind that this doesn't even include other national cups, where he tallied up 29 goals and an unknown number of assists in 50 games. To have racked up these sort of stats while being a, somewhat inconsistent, yet magical big-game player, is incredible.
     
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  21. IceBlood34

    IceBlood34 Member

    Montpellier HSC
    France
    Jan 27, 2021
    This season I find him more complete and he has never been as decisive as this season, both in terms of goals and assists.
     
  22. xShion

    xShion Member

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Jan 23, 2022
    Ah, ok, thanks
     
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  23. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    You are watching him more because of Messi probably, thats why.

    According to xGoalsAdded, for example, it is his second weakest season at PSG just ahead of his first season: https://mimburgio.shinyapps.io/alphonso/

    But yeah he still ranked higher than Messi (0.41 per 90) and Neymar (0.42 per 90) this season.
     
  24. IceBlood34

    IceBlood34 Member

    Montpellier HSC
    France
    Jan 27, 2021
    Not necessarily, I am French so I have been following the Ligue 1 for a very long time.
    No, I think that this year he has passed a level and maybe his statistics are the lowest of his time at Paris SG but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about influence on the field.
    Beside the nothingness and the collective mush that is PSG, he is the only one who survived this season and the victory in Ligue 1 is largely due to him. So I'm talking more about the "decisive aspect" of these numbers, rather than the numbers themselves, if you know what I mean.
     
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  25. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1300 carlito86, Apr 27, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2022
    If it is solely the decisive nature of his goals that you speak of it is true he has never been more integral then this season


    The 12 match winning goals he has scored this season in ligue 1 is something absurd and extremely rare in a league context

    The all time record for most match winning goals in a single Bundesliga season is held by Gerd Muller in 1972/73
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bundesliga/gamewinners/wettbewerb/L1/plus/?saison_id=1972
    12 goals


    And Robert lewandowski in 2019/20
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bundesliga/gamewinners/wettbewerb/L1/plus/?saison_id=2019
    12 goals


    In the premier league the all time record is held by Alan shearer in 1993/94
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/gamewinners/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=1993
    12 goals


    And Cristiano Ronaldo in 2007/08
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/gamewinners/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=2007
    12 goals


    In Serie A the most match winning goals scored in a single season is held by Cristiano Ronaldo in 2019/20
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/serie-a/gamewinners/wettbewerb/IT1/plus/?saison_id=2019
    12 goals

    The only ones to exceed this are Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo and Samuel Eto'o in la liga
    The first 2 doing so multiple times

    This doesnt take into consideration the decisive nature of his assists and would require much more research (something which would be extremely difficult)

    Mbappe is a modern day complete forward in a sense he is able to fulfil almost every attacking function to a high degree
    He can operate anywhere across the forward line,he can dribble,carry the ball create his own goalscoring opportunities and set up play all to a relatively high degree

    To compare to ones like Pele,Eusebio and Cristiano Ronaldo he has to demonstrably improve his FK ability ,aerial ability and long range shooting
    In their respective primes they were tier one at all these


    When he is at that level we will all know it for certain
    It will be visually apparent
    no goal contribution charts with subjective parameters and points systems will bring him closer to their level

    As it currently stands Karim Benzema broke 30 open play goals in all competitions last night and for many he is the front runner for the ballon dor and best player in the world
     

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