Since you're not answering me anymore I'm going to talk to the community of bigsoccer on this thread. See guys, Trachta is arguing Neymar and Ronaldo are equal scorer in open play without headers. You cannot redefine "open play scoring" to exclude headers just because it favours one player. Heading is a massive subset of open play finishing that relies on spatial awareness, timing and movement. By removing headers trachta is proving that if you delete a massive portion of Ronaldo's open play goals, the remaining portion looks like Neymar's. That is a logical concession that Ronaldo's open play arsenal is superior. In stats and sports analytics, efficiency doesn't scale linearly with volume. It's significantly harder to maintain a high conversion rate when you're shooting 7-8 times a game than when youre shooting 3 times a game. Ronaldo demanded defensive gravity that forced entire systems to hyper focus on stopping him, yet he maintained historic volumes. Matching someone's rate on half the volume doesn't mean you possess the same scoring level. Trachta's comparison of 13-23 Neymar to 08-20 Ronaldo relies on a false equivalence of data size. Ronaldo played roughly 50-60 games a season during his peak maintaining that scoring output across thousands of minutes under extreme physical toll. Neymar due to unfortunate and recurring injuries often played 20-30 games a season in Europe. In logic, evaluating a rate based stat over a decade when one subject played nearly double the minutes of the other is a flaw. It is much easier to maintain elite efficiency metrics when you are playing fewer matches at peak freshness than when you are grinding out 60 games a year. Another thing is Trachta treats a high xG as a passive benefit like Ronaldo was just "lucky" to get good chances when in reality, generating high xG is a reflection of elite off the ball scoring movement. Ronaldo's anticipation and positioning allowed him to consistently find spaces with a high probability of scoring. Neymar's lower xG reflects his deeper playmaking role which is brilliant but it proves he doesn't possess the specific elite off the ball movement that allows a player to accumulate massive scoring volume. The irony is trachta claim that public opinion is driven by "narrative" while the data shows a "different reality” when in fact trachta created his own narrative by heavily filtering the data removing headers, isolating specific years and ignoring volume and minutes played. Once you restore the missing data his logic completely colapses. Neymar is an elite playmaker who scores at a great rate but Ronaldo operates on an entirely different tier of pure scoring volume and execution that rate based cherry picked stats cant equalize
We can say xG measures finishing ability, yes, but ignores everything that happens beforehand. If a player receives the ball outside the box, carries it forward, and scores from close range, xG values that chance the same as a player scoring a simple tap-in. The limitations of xG undervalue decision making and ball carrying ability. In other words, it ignores exactly the areas where Neymar could be better than Cristiano. How convenient. And even then, the xG numbers you're showing are very similar for both players, which is literally my point, you're not showing that Neymar is half the goalscorer Cristiano is; you're showing two very close xG figures. To be clear, I'm talking about both players' ability to score non-header goals, I've always said Cristiano is superior in the air, that has never been in dispute. This is conversion rate inside the box without headers, from 2009/10 onward, a large sample size. This isn't about outcomes, it's about execution. Why do you think Neymar outperforms Cristiano here? Maybe because he makes better decisions, because he's a better ball carrier, and because all those qualities you keep attributing to Cristiano, Neymar most likely possesses as well. That's why they produce similar outcomes. The fact that both players produce similar outcomes is evidence that their underlying ability is similar, or at least very close, especially when we know Neymar typically receives the ball in less favorable situations and is responsible for far more on-ball duties.
What doesnt work with this is that big chances scored has disproportionate effect on a rating. For example. Lets take Messi.. has 19 goals, 10 BCM and 19 BCC = 28 score. Lets imagine, he scored one more of those big chances that he missed. His BCM goes by one down, and his goal tally goes by one up. Ultimately, scoring one of those chances he missed would transform his rating from 28 to 30. Double-counting. In other words, it incentivizes not missing chances at all cost, even at the cost of attempting and possibly succeeding. Better version of the formula would be considering goal tally of non-big chances scored rather than total amount of goals. That is an easy improvement that would make more sense.
I suppose 'non BCC chances' scored would be relevant too, and reflect a bit better on Romario (the run and poke into the corner vs Sweden in group stage, perhaps the goal vs the Netherlands although I'm not sure) for example. Interesting to see Trachta's table, and Stojkovic's position at the top though, even though I'm thinking (as has been alluded to by others on Twitter etc) that they don't have all the BCC's correctly attributed for the old World Cups (they actually have Piantoni wrongly as assister for a famous Fontaine goal vs Brazil, clearly assisted by Kopa, so even though that's pre-1966 maybe it adds weight to the scepticism we should have about their stats being 100% correct anyway).
Now they have the big chances created correctly counted from 1966 onward, since they updated the data. Yeah, Stojković is a top-tier playmaker. Based on a sample of 27 matches in European competitions (1984–91), around 40% of his team's goals were generated through his creative actions (Opta assists + non-Opta assists + pre-assists). Players like Zidane, Riquelme, Maradona, or Cruyff generate around 36–37% over certain periods, although those samples are much larger. Btw, I talked to @Bf2015Roly on X about Dalglish, and he told me he has a friend who owns Scottish sports newspapers. He's going to start researching Dalglish's assists. So it's possible we'll have numbers backed by reliable sources soon.
Most Clutch Goal Contributions at the World Cup (Goals or assists that either tied the match or put the player's team ahead)
That should be interesting re: Dalglish at Celtic (and potentially re: early Scotland games too) then yeah. Stojkovic's is one of those funny cases where he's the star player then his team wins a major trophy after he leaves I suppose! But yeah, I'm not too surprised about him stacking up so well for WC BCC/BCM missed stats, especially regarding 1990. I'm just doubting they have the BCC data absolutely correct (it seems some on Twitter spotted some examples where they didn't, but you might mean they did a second update?)....
I'm feeling though: a) Rather than looking at xG when shot taken, it could be better to estimate it when the player is receiving the ball (eg I'd say Messi's best goal of this WC can be the one from last night; Bergkamp vs Argentina 1998 would be a prime example of self-increasing the xG value after receiving the ball). b) On purely shot efficiency though perhaps xG is a better guide than BCM, because even though the values may seem low sometimes they are meant to be estimated based on what happens on average, and BCM aren't separated from VBCM (very big chances, high xG) - Romario did have one or two of those though to be fair in 1994 anyway at least....though perhaps he's kind of missing a BCC vs Cameroon in effect I guess, if they assessed that goal as I'm thinking they would have, similar to Laudrup vs Uruguay 1986 with the goalkeeper intervention but the opening created by the player in effect even if not culminating with a pass).
They updated the data following this latest World Cup. I'm pretty confident the BCC and BCM data are accurate because I reviewed the overall team totals, and everything looks normal. There aren't any suspiciously low numbers or anything like that.
Yeah, I suppose it's just whether or not they still accidentally (/'carelessly'?) - not wanting to be harsh if they are trying their best genuinely though of course) attributed some BCCs to one player instead of a different team-mate.... Hopefully there wouldn't be a lot of that, but I guess they haven't posted video clips or anything to easily start checking individual cases with....
Lionel Messi 800 Non-Goal Contributions: 415 Opta Assist 108 Non-Opta Assists: (43 Deflected Passes, 26 GK Rebounds, 11 Own Goal Assist, 11 Post Rebounds, 9 Penalties Won, 8 Free Kicks Won, 1 Second Shot) 201 Opta Pre-Assists (Pass→Pass→Goal) 76 Non-Opta Pre-Assists
Most Clutch Goal Contributions at the World Cup (Goals or assists that either tied the match or put the player's team ahead)
Messi vs Pelé: Involvement in every goal scored by their teams in World Cup campaigns that reached the Final
Apparently the Nemzeti Sport one is here (as well as ones for 1949 to 1952, but unfortunately not going more into the 50s, although one page for 1946/47 with seemingly overall marks awarded out of perhaps 5 - Puskas is on 4 for example and 5 stars would be a known phrase I guess at the time) adim2911 on X: "Some average NB I player ratings and Teams of the Season from the early years of the Golden Team (defenders and goalkeepers excluded). According to Nemzeti Sport @MihirRMA @FritzGschweidl https://t.co/ubMb9jEZLL" / X 7 players in both XIs for 1951 (but would be 8 if both put Szusza as CF). Palotas perhaps generally better rated in 1950 and then somewhat 1952 compared to 1951 it would seem.
Ah, sorry I see now that the 1946/47 assessment (overall) ratings are indeed out of 5 but with 1 as highest grade, so Puskas and various Ferencvaros players with a low verdict actually (harsh or comparing to expectations for them specifically? - not sure; Nagymarosi with a 1 rating for example so potential player of the season as left half/midfielder, but Ujpest team-mate Szuzsa not shown in the line-up - lack of games overall the reason?).
Pele vs Messi in World Cup Finals Note: In the 2014, 2022, and 2026 finals, Lionel Messi played the full 120 minutes including extra time.
James Rodriguez should be on top for both lists, actually. All match logs (2014-22): 3-0 vs. Greece: 1 goal, 2 pre-assists 2-1 vs. Ivory Coast: 1 goal, 1 pre-assist 4-1 vs. Japan: 1 goal, 2 assists (subbed on at 1-1) 2-0 vs. Uruguay: 2 goals 1-2 vs. Brazil: 1 goal 1-2 vs. Japan: - (subbed on at 1-1) 3-0 vs. Poland: 2 assists 1-0 vs. Senegal: - (subbed off at 0-0) 1-1 vs. England: - (missed match for injury) 3-1 vs. Uzbekistan: - (subbed off at 2-1) 1-0 vs. DR Congo: - (subbed off at 0-0) 0-0 vs. Portugal: - 1-0 vs. Ghana: - 0-0 vs. Switzerland: - James Rodriguez (2014) Team Goals: 12 Team Goals with James on the field: 11 Goals: 6 Assists: 2 Pre-assists: 3 Team Goals Involvements: 11/11 (100%) James Rodriguez (All-time) Team Goals: 23 Team Goals with James on the field: 18 Goals: 6 Assists: 4 Pre-assists: 3 Team Goals Involvements: 13/18 (72.2%) This is all Opta. I'm sure there's other recent one-man shows that might fit the bill too (David Villa 2010, one of Boniek/Lato/Deyna, Roger Milla, and more). Also, Ronaldo 2018 should be on the list (4/6 - 66.7%).