... .. Ruud Gullit The Most Total Footballer Of All time doing the dirty job in just 30 minutes played
Ruud Gullit The Most Total Footballer Of All time doing the dirty job in just 30 minutes played - YouTube
I am not sure tho that is the case. The true extent of gc% dynamic will not be known until all players are categorically analyzed and patterns emerge. This is all just speculation at this point. That is why I am all up for accumulating gc% data for all players, even non-great ones. Even starting by taking one league, one season as a case study. As of now it is clear that it gives valuable context in comparison of great players, but how truly significant it is will only be uncover over time as body of work grows. However, complaining about the work that Trachta and others are doing is a bit hypocritical and silly. Whoever strongly disagrees with gc% and thinks it is misleading should just do that work themselfs and prove it wrong.
Btw, things dont just stabilize for its own sake. Stability is indication of something real and meaningful And as G/A can only be compared within certain circumstances and timeframes, so is true for GC%. This is not argument against gc%
How is that relevant lol? Van Basten doesnt have to be the best of the best for the point to stand: that Puskas is twice the player Van Basten is. At this point you are just writing cliches. It is true that correlation and causation are not the same thing. Nobody argues that teammates performances causes performance of a palyer in question. As I said, there are two things that determine G/A of the player: 1. Individual ability 2. Circumstances Teammates performance doesnt cause individual ability. Individual ability is independent and individually unique contributor that is true for each player individually. That is what we are getting at. And this is why this is not the case of teammates causing performance of the player. It cant. Strong correlation between two datasets imply shared cause. And in this case it is clear what the cause is: overall attacking strength of the team: 1. Team is great - all players withing team get a boost in G/A 2. Team struggles - everybody in team struggles. This explains correlation without implying causation. And that is what dividing by team goals is achieving. Normalizing for it under the assumption that the correlation between them is because of the same cause. Stability in gc% indicates that there indeed is the shared cause that either hinders or boosts insividual G/A output of all players
Yes, I broadly agree with you that GC% is closer to truth in terms of calculation/estimation of end product than G/A per game stats if we're comparing all-time legends over different eras, as a general guide. I agree with Isaias on one aspect: it's not literally any 'correction' or true adjustment for goals/assists stats, but I think the compensation element in the formula helps negate differences in how easy it was to score in some teams compared to in others at least (and so it's quite good as a guide when comparing players in similar roles, with similar end product emphasis in their own teams and with similar amounts of attacking players in their teams - to an extent it's more ideal if there are similar amounts of star players in general in the midfield and attack at least though I think so on one side Puskas is disadvantaged there even if on the flip side it can be suggested, moreso by some others than by myself but I don't rule it out exactly, that top star players in relatively later times would likely be better individually than star players in earlier times, or at least going back to his time even if evidently there were certainly numerous skilled and creative players around, and yeah personally I still tend to think if prime Pele from an overlapping time was put in 2025 or even 2015 he may well be able ton be he best player for example). I think Puskas probably was genuinely a better shooter, in terms of average effectiveness and range of likely shots to score with, even if it can be seen for example vs England that he did drag some shots wide etc. Baggio though was probably more skillful on the ball overall I think, and that counts for something in making chances for himself or others in certain situations (obviously Puskas could do it too in his own ways for sure though as we can see), and in some types of shot he seems better also, even if it may be partly to do with how the more modern balls would react to certain types of connection (with less power needed).
I think yes and no - if we all see the same footage then we all witness the same things, and so we probably don't think completely opposite things about it. But yes when it comes to trying to decide one player is better than another comparable one, or had a better game even, then there will be some differences for sure. I think that also applies to 'translating' stats though (especially if we get invested in taking one side or sticking up for one player): in theory Isaias could have a point in preferring to assess goals/assists with context over using GC% to produce percentages, but then soon the arguments would be like: - Player A scored more and even with (insert context here) he was surely a better player. Reply: - No, considering (insert context here) he wasn't. - Yes he was. Reply: - No, he wasn't......
It also seems like it's methodology (at this point at least) is fetching already existing answers and posts from the internet (like an advanced, 'intelligent' search engine that can construct sentences like it's producing an essay) so in theory we could end up in a loop between AI answers and Big Soccer users, each referencing the other to back up their arguments (especially for a relatively niche topic like goal contribution % in football I guess)!
TimesMachine: June 12, 1994 - NYTimes.com Roberto Baggio never truly exceeded or fitted into any role according to Michel Platini who of course was his ‘predecessor’ at juventus NEITHER FISH NOR FOWL Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com Even more damning and explicit than that is this from your old acquaintance He provided no source for this though The part highlighted in black is vague and could be interpreted as praise The part in red if true leaves no further room for interpretation He was viewed as a ineffective luxury player by one of the best players of the 1980s
In theory a cross between a 9 and a 10 can be a big compliment (and it could be suggested for Pele), but it does seem like Platini was saying it with a hint of caution (and implying not being a great 9 or great 10 as such but with some aspects of both in his play). It can also be about position/role in the game, but although I haven't seen a full article or quote dissecting Platini's comment he does seem to be somewhat critical with it apparently. This is from mid 80s so Baggio wouldn't be there, but Platini did put Puskas very high up here:
If you click reply (quote I mean) on my post you will see the list of Platini appear - @Raute provided originally.
@PDG1978 On topic but more to do with the Media’s perception of him before he won the UEFA Cup in 1993 when he was 26 years old Starts at 3:05
By saying g+a per game comparisons make sense only within a limited timeframe I did not mean to elaborate an argument against gc%. It was the rejection of a criticism against g+a. As opposite, I replied to a messages claiming that g/a would imply that Puskas was two times better than Baggio, something that we all know is clearly false, while gc% produces much closer figure for the two, proving its superiority to g+a. It was indeed the advocate of gc% that presumed to be allowed to apply its method to players four decades distant one to the other. In fact proving, in my opinion, only that there has been a long standing tactical and managerial approach in the game, based on investing most of the resources on one or two pivotal players, through which most of the plays had to pass, and then providing them the support of loyal wingmen aimed at destroying the rivals plays, recoverying ball possession and eventually triggering the star players. And this used to be the case in small team struggling not to be relegated much in the same way as it was in the biggest ones. Nowadays, in the era of guardiolism, it is quite clear, in my opinion, that specialization of player is strongly discouraged. Strikers in particular are becoming a species protected by the WWF. Ideally, all the player are supposed to contribute the same in all the phases of the game, perfectly interchangeable.
Yeah, he was regarded as possibly number 1 player as alluded to, around that time. There was another episode from mid 95 (towards end of 94/95) where his situation was discussed re: who he would play for in 95/96 (I posted it here but the video is taken down so I don't know whether or not if it can be seen online now on any other channel):# https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/b...e-year-1950-2009.1389516/page-2#post-28211044 (The second video I was referring to, at the bottom of the post).
I am not complaining about the work Trachta is doing being misleading since I do not make use of it not even as a guideline to gain some insight, nor I am trying to sell an alternative method. I have just expressed my doubt on its information content in case he wants to test the robustness of his statistics.
So if instead of 2 seasons we want to compare their total times in Italy,i think assist stats are important.how Gullit's assist numbers stack up for Milan?can you provide so?
Yeah Platini once said Laudrup was the best player in the world...in training sessions! (one of his frequent sarcastic remarks). As to brasilian players of the 80s, you are probably right dedication and professionalism would have made the difference. Football had changed quite a lot from the first to the last years of the 80s, some players actually could keep up, other surrendered; the skills they had been trained to enhance were not anymore per se enough. After WC 82 many of them flew to Italy. Some did very well: Zico himself, Falcao before him (leaving an even bigger legacy behind him), Junior, Toninho Cerezo o Patrao da Bola, Dirceu (all of them showing great effectiveness still at 35; in his last italian season in 88-89 at Pescara, Junior was voted by experts the second best foreign player of the tournament). But then we had for instance Batista, who failed to impress (a quantity player indeed, not a "craque" like to ones I have mentioned); a number of players that did so and so and above all the two huge scams that Flamengo dropped to AS Roma: Andrade and Renato "Gaucho" Portaluppi. The former was supposed to be a midfielder maestro; his reputation among Flamengo supporters was strong (surely you know him well), many at Roma thought they had maybe found the heir of Falcao. Once deployed on the field, he immediately appeared as an hopelessly outdated player: slow, weak, completely unfit to the pace of late 80s serie A. On Renato there were even more expectations that he betrayed even more blatantly; he was much more focused on the parallel career of playboy and nightclubber than on football. The outcome was 0 goals in 26 games, and an anticipated return to Brasil. Socrates also was disappointing at Fiorentina: he complained he did not expect to train that hard, he had basically never trained (meaning athletic train) in his carreer (he claimed in Brasil players would achieve fitness only through playing games in the training sessions). Another one that candidly admitted he trained only ionce in his whole career (for WC82) is another one of my most favorite: Eder Aleixo. Some italian teams tried quite hard to sign him, but Mineiro chairman ironcladded his contract with them. Lazio chairman circa 1983 promised supporters he would deploy an attacking trident comprised of Eder, Giordano and Littbarski, but that lived up only in his dreams. I wonder what such an attacking side would have produced: terrific goal scoring machine or just circus show? Pity we could not have an answer.
Serie A Ruud Gullit 62 goals 1 penalty 42 assists 14636 minutes played 0.633 non penalty goals + assists per 90 Ruud Gullit - Detailed stats (Detailed view) | Transfermarkt Ruud Gullit - Penalty goals | Transfermarkt Diego Maradona 81 goals 30 penalties 50 assists 16455 minutes played 0.55 non penalty goals + assists per 90 Diego Maradona - Detailed stats | Transfermarkt Diego Maradona - Penalty goals | Transfermarkt ——————————— European Cup Ruud Gullit 5 goals 0 penalties 2 assists 1115 minutes played 0.56 non penalty goals + assists per 90 Ruud Gullit - Detailed stats (Detailed view) | Transfermarkt Diego Maradona 2 goals 0 penalties 0 assists 505 minutes played 0.357 non penalty goals+assists per 90 Diego Maradona - Detailed stats | Transfermarkt ———————————- Goals per 90 in Serie A Ruud gullit scored 0.37 non penalty goals per 90 Diego Maradona scored 0.27 non penalty goals per 90 ———————————— Assists per 90 in Serie A Diego Maradona : 0.27 Ruud Gullit : 0.25 ————————————— Diego Maradona in all the games he played in the European Cup and UEFA Cup 2 non penalty goals in 25 games Ruud Gullit in the 1989 EC final 2 non penalty goals in 1 game ————————————-
What’s with these fu*king names though lmao Larbi Ben Barek the black pearl Eusebio the black panther Ruud Gullit the black Tullip George Weah the black diamond Are they going to call Lamine Yamal the black wizard? Football history is a myth
One of the best known italian football commentator, and a devoted AC Milan supporter, had his trademark commentary feature in assigning exotic nicknames to players. To him, Gullit was Raisul The Magnificent. (Van Basten the swan of Utrecth Baresi The Captain or The Mahatma Ancelotti The Terminator, and then Albertini who replaced Ancelotti was T1000, the second generation terminator Virdis was Indiana Jones The Raider of Lost Balls Tassotti was Djalma and so on..)
You added sampdoria with Milan. OK.i find strange why you deduct penalty goals.simply because you also value assists less than goals and here you are,like a hypocrite giving penalty goals zero value which automatically gives the penalty assister credit for such goals. Now Gullit according to wiki,has 62 goals and 35 assists in serie a.you can argue that wiki is more unreliable than tranfermarkt and trash like that.but where is Coppa italia my dear? You shrewedly,as most of the time, vanished diego's assists in uefa cup..it is 10 or 11.so ruud in European cup: 27 matches 7 goals, 6 assists. Maradona in EC and uefa cup: 25 matches, 2 non penalty goals, 10/11 assists. Diego had 3 assists in 2 uefa cup finals,along with a penalty goals.