Goal contribution of the best players

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Trachta10, Nov 4, 2020.

  1. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    Man ..

    Mario Zagallo ...!

    deserves more respect at Least . !

    [​IMG] Équipe du BrésilVainqueur de la Coupe du monde 1958
    v · m
    [​IMG] Équipe du BrésilVainqueur de la Coupe du monde 1962
    v · m
    [​IMG] Équipe du BrésilVainqueur de la Coupe du monde 1970
     
  2. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    But weren't Gerrard more of a total footballer? I mean, delivering more work rate, being all over the pitch, defending, scoring goals, crossing, etc...?
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  3. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    I don't see Steven Gerrard
    as a truly Total Footballer.

    in essence
     
  4. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    no , for sure , !
     
  5. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    well, your question was pretty good yes,



    I'll talk about a detail that no one notices about
    what it means to be a Total Footballer...in practice

    On the ball...

    It's easier to notice...

    a player who participates in all phases of the game's construction.

    Off the ball

    Mainly...
    it's about having that much agility, stamina, power, endurance, acceleration, great mobility, sprint speed and pacey.

    To make long and difficult runs to back to make defensive covers, interceptions, and tackles won %


    One example this... for you

    Fernando Redondo ...

    He was very very good at disarming and tackles won % " aggression " ,

    using his own physical strength and great body balance.

    He sought to take away his opponent's sprint speed, acceleration and too much agility
    and approached aggressively on these occasions like He did it against Ronaldo Nazario de LIma , Rivaldo and Ronaldinho Gaucho in 1999 in Coca-Cola Cup Final .

    But...

    Fernando Redondo

    was very very highly

    limited
    in making defensive covers
    by running and accelerating backward.


    round had a lot of difficulty covering the entire field


    too much difficulty in making backward movements........

    Davids
    humiliated him like that
    Roberto Baggio also .. for Inter Uefa Champions League game .


    for example ...

    Alfredo Di Stefano, Ruud Gullit and Mario wolf Zagallo ...

    were masters on this . !


    di stefano disarmed opponents in the defensive opponent's corner-kick flag zone !


    Zagallo and Gullit too . !
     
  6. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    on Maradona vs Ronaldinho Gaucho

    easily Maradona !

    on Maradona ..vs Ronaldo Nazario de Lima ...

    Maradona .... !



    on Maradona vs ...Messi ..

    easily Messi ...


    on Maradona vs ,...Pelé


    easily Pelé ...

    on Maradona vs Platini or Zico

    it is neck to neck but Platini or Zico abit better !
     
  7. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    It could be all his assists were to one of them that season (I don't think of an example to say otherwise but you or Carlito would have a clearer idea probably or you will be able to see in the data) as I've seen reference to "Rooney 18 goals and 14 Assists Cristiano Ronaldo 42 goals and 8 Assists." for 2007/08 overall for Man Utd.

    Non-OPTA ones would include rebounds etc of course, but most likely they wouldn't appear on an assists video normally anyway.

    For C.Ronaldo/Rooney in general I see these pages that suggest some figures overall too (consider of course that Rooney does for sure have several CL and FA Cup assists to C.Ronaldo for Man Utd though also, as Transfermarkt does help/begin to indicate at the least, so I guess the distribution must be quite balanced between them overall as well as for 2007/08 as far as setting each other up goes - I say this as a general comment, although it would back my initial point re: Maradona being 'more of' a creator for Careca relatively in that partnership, as well as I should think on a per game basis even if a numbers comparison can be a bit skewed by eras/leagues played in and general goal trends of leagues and specific teams...which is where although imperfect it's true as a definitive metric also, GC% can show something which G/A per game analysis wouldn't do in that respect):
    https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...ed-cristiano-ronaldo-100-premier-league-goals
    Most goal involvements with Cristiano Ronaldo - bet365 News UK
    (Note the comment on Ozil for example btw - I feel like that hints at an element of G/A per game calculation that is a bit 'flawed' as a 'judgement' tool, irrespective of era-difference - the presence of certain players in a team that boost the chances of a player getting a high tally of goals (it can be true for assists too in different examples - I suppose Stuart Ripley's assist possibilities were enhanced by Shearer somewhat for example or Pep Guardiola's by Romario and/or Ronaldo Nazario...as much as his passing also helped them to score on various occasions which can be said about Ripley's crossing to Shearer too for that matter, even if it could be said Ripley wasn't a Figo or Beckham etc in that aspect and probably it wasn't in general his best individual attribute either).
     
  8. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    It has nothing to do with him other than the fact he has to share entirity of his time on the field with the same guys, and his goals and assists count are dependent on performance of others.

    Another way of looking at it, gc% is measure of how relatively well a player did in contributing to goals compared to his teammates and team and role and responsibility.

    And what is the freaking problem with that?

    You are confusing one simple thing. Read this carefully:

    GC% is NOT a player rating.

    Ask yout chatgpt what does that mean..
     
  9. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    Another example this negatively

    was Ronald KOeman ..o Rambo


    was extremely limited in making defensive coverages

    running backwards


    slower, chubby, heavy and lack of acceleration backwards
     
  10. Prasenjit

    Prasenjit Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 25, 2025
    Not hard to understand.in most of their careers(club and international), R9 had the
    team edge.in Netherlands he played two seasons for PSV, a good side.can't compare it to argentinos Jr's,who were depending a lot on diego to finish at any decent place.they were historically ordinary and maradona kind of carried them for 4-5 years.then he played for boca in 81 and won the metropolitana.boca was a good side anyway.ronaldo was very good at PSV but diego did it for longer.
    In 1996-97 and the next season in inter r9 was the phenom..at his very best.maradona was at times at his best in Barcelona but overall not quite.Winner of this period=ronaldo.
     
  11. Prasenjit

    Prasenjit Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 25, 2025
    People say the initial season in napoli was M10's best there.ratings say so too.i personally after watching many highlights and a few full matches of 84-85 beg to disagree.all of his seasons were good in overall play whether the goal scoring was low or decent.not to forget the scoring rate in.serie a were just around 2/game during that time.maradona's performance till 1990 in napoli was greater than anything Ronaldo did post injury in club football,either for a good inter or a star studded Madrid.
     
  12. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I don't mean to say btw that having a particularly good provider (I acknowledge it can work the other way though of course and a scorer's attributes can help a player get more assists) can't help a player's GC% too - probably Ozil is a good example because he apparently had 47 RM assists and 31 of them to C.Ronaldo. But in general I think it's less 'definite' that that effect will occur, comparing to increase in G/A, as a player who makes many chances can help various team-mates to be in better positions to score, not only one player.

    Nolberto Solano might be the best example re: Shearer and setting him up, including/particularly with crosses, I guess too. The overall stats seem to be reported as 16 Solano PL assists to Shearer (unless it's overall Newcastle assists) out of 50+ overall Solano assists in PL.

    Some more PL goal/assist combination links (one thing to note I think is that for players with highest combined tallies of goals/assists it tends to be prolific goalscorers more than prolific assisters who feature, even if taking out penalties might affect that in some cases):
    Son and Kane combine once again to beat all-time record
    Most Goal Involvements in a Premier League Season | Opta Analyst
     
  13. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    i saw so many many whole matches ..from this season 1984-1985 ....


    ..... until december 1984 .... pretty bad season Of Diego til there .. Daniel Bertoni in general played much better than Diego ...Maradona


    But since 6 january ...until may 19 ,,...Serie A Calcio

    Diego improved alot Serie A Calcio ...became A Total Footballer version himself 1985-1987 ..

    Napoli ...on this period ..only lost once against Ac Milan away-game ... 8 wins ..8 draws ... 1 Lose...

    until december
    6 losses ...5 draws ...2 wins ..

    He plays great games really

    for the Argentine national team side

    friendlies and South American qualifiers for World Cup 1986

    month 5
    month 6
    month 7

    Of 1985 ..
     
  14. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #5114 carlito86, Sep 5, 2025
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2025
    Cristiano Ronaldo’s assists and pre assists to Wayne Rooney

    Including OPTA assists and non OPTA assists

    Including OPTA pre assists and non OPTA pre assists


    Assists

    1.


    2.


    3.



    4. Rooney & Ronaldo vs Blackburn (A) Great GOAL! - YouTube



    5.
    At minute 0:15


    6. Rooney Goal vs Arsenal - YouTube


    7. Cristiano Ronaldo Vs Newcastle 07 08 Away 23 02 2008 - YouTube
    At minute 0:53


    8. Cristiano Ronaldo Vs Aston Villa Home (English Commentary) - 07-08 By CrixRonnie - YouTube
    At minute 10:00


    9. Manchester United 5-2 Tottenham Hotspur (08/09) | Premier League Classics | Manchester United - YouTube
    At minute 1:30


    10. Cristiano Ronaldo Vs Wigan Athletic Home (14/01/2009) - YouTube
    At minute 0:48


    11. Cristiano Ronaldo Vs Bolton (H) 08-09 by MemeT - YouTube
    At minute 7:34


    12. Cristiano Ronaldo Vs Birmingham City Home (26/03/2006) - YouTube
    At minute 6:20


    13. Ronaldo Vs Liverpool (A) || 19YO || 04/05 || Highlights & Skills - YouTube
    At minute 0:23





    Pre assists

    1. Cristiano Ronaldo Vs AS Roma Away 06-07 By MemeT
    At minute 3:21



    2. 21/01/2007 Arsenal Vs Man Utd WAYNE ROONEY GOAL FOX SPORTSLA - YouTube


    3. Cristiano Ronaldo Vs AS Roma Home 06-07 (English Commentary) on Vimeo
    At minute 2:10


    4. Cristiano Ronaldo Vs Fulham Home (English Commentary) - 06-07 By CrixRonnie - YouTube
    At minute 9:47


    5. PL Classics | Rooney double blunts the Blades | Sheffield United 1-2 Manchester United (2006/07) - YouTube
    At minute 2:30


    6. Cristiano Ronaldo Was So DOMINANT Vs Chelsea In 2008-09 (Home) - YouTube
    At minute 7:40



    Overall

    13
    assists + 6 pre assists to Wayne Rooney

    Wayne Rooney scored 97 goals at Manchester United between 2004/05 and 2008/09
    This includes the games Cristiano Ronaldo was on the pitch and the games he was not

    Cristiano Ronaldo was directly involved in 20% of those goals


    ——————————-

    IMG_4954.jpeg


    ———————————


    @Isaías Silva Serafim @PDG1978
     
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  15. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I haven't tried to check on OPTA vs non-OPTA on those Carlito, but yeah around half each between them seems about right for final ball assist breakdown (and therefore for who scored the goals too) in their goal combinations/collaborations (with 25 combinations overall apparently) then indeed (also for 2007/08 specifically).
     
  16. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #5116 carlito86, Sep 5, 2025
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2025

    Diego Maradona vs Ronaldinho gaucho

    World Cup
    Diego Maradona


    Copa America
    Diego Maradona


    EC/Champions league
    Ronaldinho Gaucho


    Copa libertadores
    Ronaldinho Gaucho


    Domestic league football in Europe
    Equal


    Finishing
    Diego Maradona


    Heading
    Diego Maradona


    Freekicks
    Equal


    Clutch ability on big stages via goalscoring
    Equal


    Playmaking
    Diego Maradona


    Throughballs
    Ronaldinho gaucho


    Long passing
    Equal


    Crossing
    Diego Maradona


    Inventive passing
    Equal


    Peak athleticism
    Equal


    Close control dribbling
    Diego Maradona


    Functional skills
    Equal


    Showboating
    Ronaldinho


    Defensive qualities
    Diego Maradona


    Fair play/lack of controversy
    Ronaldinho Gaucho


    Peak at international level
    Diego Maradona


    Peak in EC/CL/Copa libertadores
    Ronaldinho gaucho


    Peak in domestic league football
    Equal


    Longevity
    Diego Maradona


    In 24 different categories
    I have Diego Maradona leading in 10
    Ronaldinho leading in 6
    And being on par in 8

    I don’t recognise that Maradona in Serie A reached a higher level than Ronaldinho in La Liga neither do I recognise that Maradona in La Liga reached a higher level than Ronaldinho in Serie A.

    Every single thing has to be taken into consideration

    If Maradona won trophies how did he win them?

    If Maradona escaped disciplinary action for several violations how did he do it?

    Who was protecting him?

    And what types of excuses did he use?


    If Maradona was not available why was he not?


    If Maradona did not shine or even play in a certain competition why did he not?

    And the exact same standards will also be applied to Ronaldinho(or whoever else)

    I am not an unreasonable person for questioning every single thing said or done by a man claiming he was abducted by aliens.
    This is serious and not a joke

    Red cards , fights on the pitch , bad tackles and even diving(YES) are bad qualities that are not unique to Maradona
    I can’t overly penalise him for things that many others have done throughout the history of football


    Off field stuff like the allegations of rape and exaggerated scenes of shooting journalists is a different discussion entirely and not connected to his football
    And by that I mean his achievements,his performances,his availability (or lack thereof)


    Things that are unique to him such as cheating on the world stage several times and getting away with it, evading urine tests dozens of times because he was protected by powerful figures,going missing when he was a professional football, blaming it on aliens and getting away with it

    No way Jose
    I don’t accept this under any circumstances
     
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  17. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The problem is that it's not based on the player's performance. It's based on teammates' performances. We agree that GC% is not a player rating. I would say it's a rating of that player's teammates. The problem is that there are people here using GC% to say that player x was better than player y, creating rankings based on GC%, etc...
     
  18. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Before PSV R9 destroyed at Cruzeiro. Will you say Cruzeiro also were worse than Argentinos Juniors? I don't think Napoli was worse than Real Madrid after 2002. Obviously Real Madrid had more stars in attack but Napoli collectively was one of the best teams in Italy especially before the Dutch Milan and after the decline of Platini's Juve.
    Yeah, post injury Ronaldo were worse than prime Maradona although he still were world-class until at least 2005. But peak wise I would say Ronaldo were as good or maybe even better individually than Maradona. More unstoppable I would say
     
  19. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #5119 carlito86, Sep 5, 2025
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2025
    He was?

    ————————-

    Champions League ratings according to sofascore

    IMG_4964.jpeg


    IMG_4960.jpeg

    —————————

    Highest rated players in La Liga 2004/05 according to Dbs calcio
    IMG_4961.jpeg

    ——————————


    0 votes for the 2005 ballon dor
    2005 Ballon d'Or - Wikipedia
     
  20. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Could you be more precise please

    When you say till(until?) do you mean including 1990 or that he was great until the end of December 1989


    Diego Maradona was the 8th highest rated player on his own team in WC 1990
    IMG_4965.jpeg


    He scored 0 non penalty goals in Serie A 1990/91(he was banned in March 1991 so the majority of those games were played in 1990)


    He scored 0 goals in the KO stages of the 1990/91 European Cup(those game were played in October and November 1990)


    He arguably had only one genuinely great performance vs a very good team in the entire 1990 calendar


    It should be said that Juventus had a questionable defensive record in Serie A 1989/90
    They had the worst defensive record of any team in the top 5 ( conceded 37 goals )

    Maradona’s Napoli never conceded more than 34 goals in a single Serie A season between 1984/85 and 1989/90.


    I thought I should add a caveat when describing Juventus 1989/90 as a very good team.

    Roberto baggio was also not there yet(not that he needed to be anyways)
     
  21. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  22. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    He scored 30 goals in 02/03, 31 in 03/04 and 24 in 04/05. Played practically the same amount of games. There was no less dribbling or pace which were his main traits. If you look his first 85 goals for Real Madrid, there's no drop in form
     
  23. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    Maradona sang his swan song exactly at Baggio's Juve baptism of fire

     
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  24. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #5124 carlito86, Sep 5, 2025
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2025
    71.4% of his 21 league goals in La Liga 2004/05 were scored vs teams that finished in 11th to 20th place(bottom half of the table)


    2 goals vs Atletico Madrid
    2 goals vs Real Zaragoza
    1 goal vs Getafe
    3 goals vs Real Sociedad
    2 goals vs Racing Santander
    1 goal vs Mallorca
    2 goals vs levante
    2 goals vs albacete
    Ronaldo - Stats 04/05 | Transfermarkt
    2004–05 La Liga - Wikipedia


    The CL and La Liga ratings are in the other post.

    Ronaldo Nazario was ‘world class’ for two full seasons in this century(his first two at Real Madrid)

    That should not be controversial IMO.
     
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  25. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    in Big Finals or in Big Matches behaviour ????


    Maradona == 1, 28 %

    vs


    Ronaldinho

    == 0, 46 %


    You forgot from this main metric ??


     

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