Goal contribution of the best players

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Trachta10, Nov 4, 2020.

  1. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    1966–67 Football League First Division


    DISTANCE BETWEEN THE CHAMPION
    AND
    8TH PLACED WAS 16 POINTS




    GEORGE BEST
    DENIS LAW
    BOBBY CHARLTON ...

    ETC...
     
  2. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    IS INTERESTING AT ALL ..!

    Placar's 100 Craques do Século
    In November 1999, Placar (Brazil) published a list of the best 100 players of all time, ranked from 1 to 100. The list as published follows.

    1.Édson Arantes do Nascimento - PELÉ (Brazil)
    2.Diego Armando MARADONA (Argentina)
    3.Johann CRUYFF (Netherlands)
    4.Manoel Francisco dos Santos - GARRINCHA (Brazil)
    5.Franz BECKENBAUER (Germany)
    6.Alfredo DI STEFANO (Argentina)
    7.Ferenc PUSKAS (Hungary)
    8.Michel PLATINI (France)
    9.EUSÉBIO Ferreira da Silva (Portugal)
    10.ROMÁRIO de Souza Farias (Brazil)
    11.Lev YASHIN (Russia)
    12.Roberto RIVELLINO (Brazil)
    13.Valdir Pereira - DIDI (Brazil)
    14.Just FONTAINE (France)
    15.Daniel Alberto PASSARELLA (Argentina)
    16.Arthur Antunes Coimbra - ZICO (Brazil)
    17.Franchescino BARESI (Italy)
    18.Robert "BOBBY" CHARLTON (England)
    19.Elias Ricardo FIGUEROA Brander (Chile)
    20.Lothar MATTHÄUS (Germany)
    21.Gordon BANKS (England)
    22.NÍLTON SANTOS (Brazil)
    23.Josef Dieter MAIER (Germany)
    24.Sandor KOCSIS (Hungary)
    25.Angel Amadeo LABRUNA (Argentina)
    26.Marco VAN BASTEN (Netherlands)
    27.GEORGE BEST (Northern Ireland)
    28.LEÔNIDAS DA SILVA (Brazil)
    29.Hristo STOICHKOV (Bulgaria)
    30.Francisco GENTO (Spain)
    31.Ruud Dil GULLIT (Netherlands)
    32.FRITZ WALTER (Germany)
    33.Luigi RIVA (Italy)
    34.Gerhardt "GERD" MÜLLER (Germany)
    35.Arthur FRIEDENREICH (Brazil)
    36.Paulo Roberto FALCÃO (Brazil)
    37.Robert "BOBBY" Frederick MOORE (England)
    38.GÉRSON de Oliveira Nunes (Brazil)
    39.Paul BREITNER (Germany)
    40.DOMINGOS Antônio DA GUIA (Brazil)
    41.Dino ZOFF (Italy)
    42.Karl-Heinz RUMMENIGGE (Germany)
    43.Laszlo KUBALA (Hungary)
    44.Uwe SEELER (Germany)
    45.VALENTINO MAZZOLA (Italy)
    46.CARLOS ALBERTO TORRES (Brazil)
    47.OBDULIO Jacinto VARELA (Uruguay)
    48.Eduardo Gonçalves de Andrade - TOSTÃO (Brazil)
    49.STANLEY MATTHEWS (England)
    50.Raymond Kopaszewski "KOPA" (França)
    51.DJALMA SANTOS (Brazil)
    52.George WEAH (Liberia)
    53.Jürgen KLINSMANN (Germany)
    54.PAOLO MALDINI (Italy)
    55.HUGO SÁNCHEZ Márquez (Mexico)
    56.Amadeo Raúl CARRIZO (Argentina)
    57.Albert-Roger MILLA (Cameroun)
    58.Zoltan CZIBOR (Hungary)
    59.Leovegildo Lins Gama JÚNIOR (Brazil)
    60.MICHAEL LAUDRUP (Denmark)
    61.Josef MASOPUST (Czechoslovakia)
    62.Antônio de Oliveira Filho - CARECA (Brazil)
    63.Juan Alberto SCHIAFFINO (Uruguay)
    64.ADEMIR DA GUIA (Brazil)
    65.PAOLO ROSSI (Italy)
    66.Jair "JAIRZINHO" Ventura Filho (Brazil)
    67.Mário Esteves COLUNA (Portugal)
    68.ADEMIR Marques DE MENEZES (Brazil)
    69.Enzo FRANCESCOLI Uriarte (Uruguay)
    70.Teófilo CUBILLAS (Peru)
    71.Gaetano SCIREA (Italy)
    72.Alain GIRESSE (France)
    73.Júlio "JULINHO" BOTELHO (Brazil)
    74.Luis "LUISITO" SUÁREZ Miramontes (Spain)
    75.Giacinto FACCHETTI (Italy)
    76.PEDRO Virgilio ROCHA Franchetti (Uruguay)
    77.SÓCRATES Brasileiro Sampaio de Souza Vieira de Oliveira (Brazil)
    78.Guillermo STÁBILE (Argentina)
    79.Thomaz Soares da SIlva - ZIZINHO (Brazil)
    80.Gheorghe HAGI (Romania)
    81.Antônio "TONINHO" Carlos CEREZO (Brazil)
    82.Ricardo ZAMORA Martínez (Spain)
    83.RONALDO Luís Nazário de Lima (Brazil)
    84.Antonio CARBAJAL (Mexico)
    85.Silvio PIOLA (Italy)
    86.Giuseppe MEAZZA (Italy)
    87.Carlos Alberto GAMARRA Pavón (Paraguay)
    88.Gabriel Omar BATISTUTA (Argentina)
    89.Paul John GASCOIGNE (England)
    90.Frantisek PLANICKA (Czechoslovakia)
    91.ROBERTO BAGGIO (Italy)
    92.Zinedine ZIDANE (France)
    93.Johan NEESKENS (Netherlands)
    94.Julio César Romero "ROMERITO" Insfrán (Paraguay)
    95.Davor SUKER (Croatia)
    96.José Luís Félix CHILAVERT (Paraguay)
    97.Jean Amadou TIGANA (France)
    98.Mario Alberto KEMPES (Argentina)
    99.Zbigniew BONIEK (Poland)
    100.Franklin Edmundo RIJKAARD (Netherlands)

    THERE DON'T APPEARS DENNIS BERGKAMP BY THE WAY ....



    IN BRAZIL ...


    PLAYER THAT HASN'T ...

    TITLES FOR NATIONAL TEAM SIDE ...YOURS !

    OR WORLD CUPS ...EURO-CUPS ..


    IS HARDER TO STAY IN THE LIST ..


    I THINK SO ...


    BECAUSE THIS

    DENNIS BERGKAMP ..

    DON'T MENTIONED THERE !
     
  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yes, in the World Soccer reader's vote he was quite highly placed/voted, and most of the voters would be British/English I guess (where he was playing club football):
    The Best x Players of the Century/All-Time (rsssf.org)
    England Player Honours - World Soccer Players of the Century (englandfootballonline.com)
    Apparently the editorial team of World Soccer put him on their second guidelist though, not the 1st one that is seen via the top link I've posted (but the choices of the magazine were in general more on the historic side and in the readers voting more modern players entered among the top ones):
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/sheep-draft-main-thread.1305113/page-69#post-20137815




    The 1999/2000 one is pretty good too actually (though it wasn't such a good and consistent season by him overall - he was great at home/(at Wembley) to Barcelona in the Champions League though for example)
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  4. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    One of the best link up players in history? He would absolutely love it in todays game..
     
  5. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Probably fair to say, yes, I think so (there can be some questions about big games and suchlike, but in essence I don't think many were better at link-up play anyway).

    In the early-mid 2000s he was arguably already playing in a de facto 4-2-3-1 maybe (with wingers/wide attackers either side, ahead of two holding midfielders albeit Vieira did get forwards too, and behind normally Henry). In the 90s he was more like a free-role second striker (but for the Netherlands either a centre forward, or an in the hole player behind a striker).

    Cole Palmer was compared to him recently, in an interview, but he didn't seem to know a lot about him (he said he'd seen a few clips though)! I can see the comparison in terms of vision and cleverness with the ball a bit (maybe I think Palmer has some aspects of young Rivaldo too though). It's also been suggested (widely I don't know, but on a radio phone-in with/by Chris Sutton and Robbie Savage at least) that Palmer is now the best Premier League player and perhaps best English player by the way. He's probably one that'd have a decent goal contributions table over the last season and a bit anyway I guess. I could probably go with him being the best Premier League player indeed at the moment too, although it could be a slightly premature call (if his form was to dip) - perhaps the 20th if thinking of the first one being established during the opening Premier League season (I could in theory even consider Bergkamp earlier or after the injury of Pires in 2002 for a while, as well as De Bruyne perhaps interrupting the run of Hazard once or twice to be fair, but I'm being minimalist - Alan Shearer might be unlucky to miss out for example as might arguably Ryan Giggs):
    Eric Cantona - opening season-1994
    Jurgen Klinsmann - 1994-1995
    David Ginola - 1995-1996
    Gianfranco Zola - 1996-1997
    Dennis Bergkamp - 1997-1999
    David Beckham - 1999-2001
    Robert Pires - 2001-2002
    Patrick Vieira - 2002-2003
    Thierry Henry - 2003-2006
    Steven Gerrard - 2006-2007
    Cristiano Ronaldo - 2007-2009
    Cesc Fabregas - 2009-2010
    Wayne Rooney - 2010-2012
    Yaya Toure - 2012-2014
    Eden Hazard - 2014-2019
    Virgil van Dijk - 2019-2020
    Kevin De Bruyne - 2020-2021
    Mohamed Salah - 2021-2022
    Erling Haaland - 2022-2024
    Cole Palmer - current....?
     
  6. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Zico would be another one among the best link-up players of all-time I'm thinking (I know you do already know him though @Sexy Beast, but I'll put some videos in too even though in some examples I know the defending is not the best):

     
  7. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    For me tho, link-up play and playmaking are two different aspects. Link-up is more about filling in the gaps and providing an outlet for attack to move through, while playmaking is more elaborate and invovles more liberty to create chances and forward momentum (also includes dribbling and movement with the ball).

    Bergkamp was a great playmaker as well evident by his long and final passes. However, I think he stands out even more in the link-up play. He would position well centrally or a bit wide and would play well with his back to goal.

    The thing I like the most about Bergkamp is that he was highly intelligent player with an extraordinary vision. He was playing as if he was looking at the game from above and was solving situations as puzzles. He was tall in his stature and was somewhat physically imposing, although not as much as Drogba or Ibrahimović for example, but his vision, intelligence and world class technique set him apart in link-up. Someone like Guardiola would completely unlock his potential in todays game. Perhaps, he was a bit ahead of his time unfortunately.

    Also, his goals are work of art. I really enjoy his goal compilations - the elegance and technique with which he finds the back of the net.
     
    PDG1978 repped this.
  8. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Regarding the list in the recent times, I would certainly put Rodri as the best the last season and would De Bruyne on top for more years.

    Also, I wouldn't put Palmer at the top right now if you are going with the criteria that Haaland is the best 2022-24. Currently, Haaland is in the top form and will probably have the best season of his career so if he is not ahead of Palmer atm because of goals and his impact, then I wouldn't put Haaland ahead in the last two years either.

    Hazard is an interesting case because he would have off years between exceptional years. The 2015, 2017 and 2019 seasons I agree he probably should be considered the best in epl, but 2016 was really, REALLY off year for him and 2018 was excellent, but I think bellow the 3 mentioned seasons...

    I love Yaya Toure and is quite underrated in general public, however Suarez 2014 season has to be acknowledged as it is probably the best by any players since a looong time. Salah 2018 is also another case which I think can not be overlooked.

    But I understand an attempt not to flip-flop every season between players, but to sort of capture longer spells of dominance. Out of recent times, I think De Bruyne is the most consistently great performer in epl after the turn of 2020 and the most deserving of the of such recognition..
     
  9. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Yeah, I love watching him play. Although great at link-up play, I think he wasn't capable of playing so well with his back towards goal due to his size so I would say that his qualities belong more in the playmaking category.
     
  10. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Teddy Sheringham could be another one to mention for link-up the way you're describing it I'd say (and capable with medium range passes also), although he was a more limited player than Bergkamp overall.
     
  11. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think I was considering 'link up' as including flicks, slick control followed by quick passes, finding space in the hole and playing passes wide or through the middle to progress moves etc. But yeah Zico wasn't a player to stand up front and take the ball in so much (although I know he was deliberately bulked up a little bit as a young player because of initially being so slight, so he had decent balance and strength under pressure relatively maybe).
     
  12. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I should have clarified before yeah that the start and end points weren't related to seasons specifically in my post, but just a general view about when one player might pass the baton onto another in an unofficial (my opinion I suppose, but quite a few of the choices would probably be widely put forwards for the same or similar timeframe) best player in the Premier League category.

    I was probably being cautious for short-term additions in some cases (at some point yeah IIRC I'd agree that Suarez was the current top player on form and Yaya not in so much good form - I think Yaya was not the best player of 2012/13 season either but from the second half of 2011/12 to second half of 2013/14 he could be a good general candidate anyway with those two periods specifically being his best ones I think). I could see Rodri being a fair call lately, although obviously he's out injured now. Palmer only really became any sort of candidate during last season and maybe it shouldn't be an immediate promotion to being deemed the top player (although it could be looked at like that, from the very start of the best form of each player and then maybe yeah he could already be in the mix last season, albeit Foden was deemed Player of the Season officially anyway).
     
  13. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You really put Rodri over Bellingham/Vini Jr last season? Lol I've overrated your football knowledge
     
  14. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Other than you being completely off topic, not understanding the context of my statement and being hostile, it is not like your words on anything related to Barca and Real is reasonable.
     
  15. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Btw If I were drafting players, yes I would choose Rodri ahead of Vinicius.
     
  16. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Any good videos?
     
  17. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    I dont think link up exclusively means playing with your back to goal, flicks and suchlike are included, but if player doesnt do that, they are lacking a big skill set of link up.
     
  18. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    ....


    BARCLAYS PREMIER LEAGUE :

    1995/96


    DISTANCE BETWEEN THE CHAMP
    AND
    8TH PLACED WAS .... 21 POINTS


    BARCLAYS PREMIER LEAGUE :

    1996/97


    DISTANCE BETWEEN THE CHAMP
    AND
    8TH PLACED WAS .... 19 POINTS



    BARCLAYS PREMIER LEAGUE :

    1997/98


    DISTANCE BETWEEN THE CHAMP
    AND
    8TH PLACED WAS .... 22 POINTS




    BARCLAYS PREMIER LEAGUE :

    1998/99


    DISTANCE BETWEEN THE CHAMP
    AND
    8TH PLACED WAS .... 27 POINTS




    BARCLAYS PREMIER LEAGUE :

    1999/00


    DISTANCE BETWEEN THE CHAMP
    AND
    8TH PLACED WAS .... 36 POINTS





    BARCLAYS PREMIER LEAGUE :

    2000/01


    DISTANCE BETWEEN THE CHAMP
    AND
    8TH PLACED WAS .... 26 POINTS




    ...
    BARCLAYS PREMIER LEAGUE :

    2001/02


    DISTANCE BETWEEN THE CHAMP
    AND
    8TH PLACED WAS .... 37 POINTS
     
  19. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Lol literally before the euros anyone were putting Rodri at the top 5 of the season. This nonsense started after Spain won the euros. Ironically there were at least 4 players who were clearly better than Rodri only at the Spanish NT on that tournament so it doesn't make sense. If your argument is his unbeaten streak, all games city lost without Rodri, KDB also didn't played. He only had lucky of not play on the games in which city lose.
     
  20. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    You dont know my reasons..the reason is that if I didnt have Rodri in my team, then there is a big gap to the second best player in the world who can provide what Rodri does. While if I dont have Vinicius, there are plenty of others talented left wingers that would do the trick. Vinicius is replacable while there is nobody who gives value to the team that Rodri gives.

    I am on the record talking about Rodri long before the Euro. I dont base my opinion on team success and 7 games tournaments as you might already know, and I dont really care what others think as you might already know.

    If anything I have predicted the Rodri hype beforehand because opinions of the masses are very predictable in football.
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  21. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    Good Point ! and Great Vision at all !




    i voted in Ballon D'or 2024 ..by Users ...



    1# Rodri

    2# Jude Belligham

    3# Vini Jr

    4 # Nico Willians ..

    5 # Yamal ...

    6# Mbappé
     
  22. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Honestly I don't see that gap between for example Rodri and Declan Rice. In fact last season I see Rice as better than Rodri considering all competitions.

    Vini Jr's KO at the UCL last season is unmatched. The only who comes close is Yamal's KO at the euros. Considering all competitions and all season long, no one comes close to Bellingham in the sense of concistency. Rodri really isn't in that conversation
     
  23. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    https://www.givemesport.com/greates...X1soriFEKTFuBYI0PA_aem_ZgbvAVlppsGl9nXOHZ8UeA





    The Greatest Strikers in Football History

    Rank


    Name

    Teams

    Trophies

    Appearances

    Goals

    1

    Pele

    Santos, New York Cosmos, Brazil

    14

    858

    786

    2

    Ferenc Puskas

    Budapest Honved, Real Madrid Hungary, Spain

    16

    718

    709

    3

    Gerd Muller

    1861 Nordlingen, Bayern Munich, Fort Lauderdale Strikers, West Germany

    15

    778

    722

    4

    Romario

    Vasco de Gama, PSV Eindhoven, Barcelona, Flamengo, Valencia, Fluminense, Al Sadd, Miami FC, Adelaide United, America RJ, Brazil

    12

    886

    745

    5

    Eusebio

    Sporting Lourenco Marques, Benfica, Boston Minutemen, Monterrey, Toronto Metros-Croatia, Beira-Mar, Las Vegas Quicksilvers, Uniao de Tomar, New Jersey Americans, Buffalo Stallions, Portugal

    17

    641

    623

    6

    Alfredo Di Stefano

    River Plate, Huracan, Millonarios, Real Madrid, Espanyol, Spain, Argentina

    22

    706

    509

    7

    Ronaldo

    Cruzeiro, PSV Eindhoven, Inter Milan, Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Corinthians, Brazil

    18

    616

    414

    8

    Thierry Henry

    Monaco, Juventus, Arsenal, Barcelona, New York Red Bulls, France

    20

    936

    417

    9

    Jimmy Greaves

    Chelsea, AC Milan, Tottenham Hotspur, West Ham United, Brentford, Chelmsford City, Barnet, Woodford Town, England

    7

    764

    513

    10

    Wayne Rooney

    Everton, Manchester United, Derby County, DC United

    16

    884

    366

    11

    Marco van Basten

    Ajax, AC Milan, Netherlands

    19

    437

    304

    12

    Gabriel Batistuta

    Newell's Old Boys, River Plater, Boca Juniors, Fiorentina, Roma, Inter Milan, Al-Arabi

    10

    527

    300

    13

    Robert Lewandowski

    Delta Warsaw, Legia Warsaw, Znicz Pruszkow, Lech Poznan, Borussia Dortmund, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Poland

    29

    781

    577

    14

    Alan Shearer

    Southampton, Blackburn Rovers, Newcastle United, England

    3

    704

    363

    15

    Luis Suarez

    Nacional, Groningen, Ajax, Liverpool, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, Gremio, Inter Miami

    25

    800

    493

    16

    Fernando Peyroteo

    Sporting CP

    11

    369

    598

    17

    Zlatan Ibrahimovic

    Malmo FF, Ajax, Juventus, Inter Milan, Barcelona, AC Milan, Paris Saint-Germain, Manchester United, LA Galaxy

    32

    827

    496

    18

    Karim Benzema

    Lyon, Real Madrid, Al-Ittihad

    33

    831

    439

    19

    Sandor Kocsis

    Kobanyai, Ferencvaros, Honved, Young Fellows Zurich, Barcelona

    11

    538

    556

    20

    Dixie Dean

    Tranmere Rovers, Everton, Notts County, Sligo Rovers, Hurst

    8

    612

    568
     
  24. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
  25. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Not really no.

    Some game videos can give some idea (number 10 in all these):





    Marco van Basten is probably a good call all in all, including the hold-up aspects you're referring to, to be fair, I'd say, also.
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.

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