Goal contribution of the best players

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Trachta10, Nov 4, 2020.

  1. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    ..........
     
  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Interesting to see the clip at 2:16 - unless my eyes deceive then I think Kopa has the 'pre-assist' (and not the assist) to Piantoni on that one: @wm442433 had noted possibly an assist in effect (to make it 8 assists overall, by Opta standards maybe, if considering any deflection off the Northern Irish defender's boot when Piantoni does the nutmeg as minimal - wm was considering Piantoni to have scored a solo goal anyway so no 'true' assist being credited on his site, consistent with how French media, or specifically France Football, used to do things in the 80s for example I think, as per on wm's thread dedicated to French league assist tallies)
    Football Yesterday & Today: Raymond Kopa - Statistiques détaillées en Equipe de France (footballyesterdayandtoday.blogspot.com)
    I seem to have noted previously that I wasn't seeing who assisted Piantoni on that goal on the footage I found, but that it seems to be mentioned it was Kopa. I think 7 assists might be correct (certainly not with any assist by Kopa to Piantoni vs Brazil, evident when watching the full game rather than a deceptive highlights/newsreel clip that is available), if assuming that there is no direct Kopa assist to Piantoni vs Northern Ireland (as it seems to me, as I don't think the player that makes the final pass to Piantoni is Kopa - wm may have seen info/reports it was as I think he has listed that as a 'half-assist' not a 'half-pre-assist' if I understand correctly, but maybe you would revise that wm on seeing the footage at 2:16 on Wiliam's video?)
     
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  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    At 2:24 the player closest to Piantoni is Wisniewski (number 22) anyway, in a position that seems to be feasibly where the player who played the pass would be situated. To me, the one who receives the ball and plays that pass doesn't seem to have Kopa's posture (I could also think the hair is too dark for Kopa maybe, but I'm not really sure on that given the footage in the format we have it and comparing to how things seem on other goals).
     
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  4. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    yes ... Kopa .. Assist to Fontaine ...
    ...................... Assist to Vincent...
    against Paraguay ...


    ..... Kopa ... Assist to Fontaine ...
    ...... Assist ..to ... Douis

    against West Germany ;..



    Kopa ... Assist ...to Fontaine ...

    ..... against Brazil ..



    ....Kopa.... Assist ..To Fontaine ;;;

    against Nothern Ireland ...



    ..........
    the others very doubtful..


    against Paraguay ... goal Piantoni ..Lob Goal ..

    against ..Iugoslavia ... Goal Fontaine .... Lob Goal ..

    against ..Brazil ..... Goal Piantoni... Nutmeg Goal there ...
     
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  5. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think the way that Kopa could have 8 assists though (not 9 probably I'm thinking if indeed not one to Piantoni vs Northern Ireland) is if it is indeed him who passed with the volley to Fontaine vs Yugoslavia (the goal at the end of your video Wiliam).

    That one is not listed on wm's page, and not by babaorum here (maybe at one point I used that list as a guide and deducted the one vs Brazil to Piantoni as I knew that wasn't a valid one):
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/w...iety-of-sources.2003234/page-19#post-30351347

    That assists does seem feasibly Kopa to me to be fair (vs Yugoslavia), albeit he picked up a knock vs Yugoslavia apparently (possibly after he made that pass? to the other ankle?):
    kopayugo1958.png

    This was said (as a comment about Scotland potentially playing through balls through the centre vs Paraguay) about France/Kopa vs Paraguay too btw (I guess it refers not only to that great assist to Fontaine, but in general to Kopa playing through balls):
    kopapara58.png
     
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  6. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    This one seems the best possibility to me (like I said above).

    @wm442433 also noted an assist vs Paraguay to Wiesnieski via a free-kick seemingly.
     
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  7. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    well Wiliam Phil Gracek's job ..

    is great always ..

    i've found a New Assist to Kopa hahahaha ...


    that's pretty amazing at all !
     
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  8. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    yes Piantoni Goal .. against N. Ireland...

    was the number 22 that gave An Assist .. onthis Goal ..
     
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  9. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Maybe that involves a rebound (a Kopa shot?) so wouldn't be counted anyway, but I'm not sure I saw any moving footage of it (maybe wm442433 looked at info in a game report, but if it was a deflected free-kick assist maybe it wouldn't count anyway according to him too).

    The 6 definites you have @Wiliam Felipe Gracek I agree with, and the one vs Yugoslavia would make it 7, I think (I don't properly remember if at one point I already counted the one vs Yugoslavia too, but yeah it does seem like him Wiliam probably, so it is a good inclusion on your video indeed, even if this old footage can be a bit frustrating in how clear it is...to be fully certain about things! - I don't really think it is somebody else other than Kopa anyway though at least, whereas for example for the Piantoni lob volley vs Paraguay I think it is probably Vincent with the assist, and Kopa is in the middle, following Fontaine's shot).
     
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  10. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    ...i did one video ..on Maradona ..is nice also !


     
  11. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    Raymond Kopa At least ... is like Edson Arantes Pelé in 1970 ... World Cup .. 1970 . ! with 6 Assists ... hahahaha not that bad ..at all !
     
  12. Praasen

    Praasen Member

    Mohun bagan
    Argentina
    Jan 8, 2023
    true.the premise of the thread is very far away from being universal.in fact i think it would be untrue for about 90-95% of forwards(and attacking midfielders)of world football.but when we look at the star players and legends who actually keep up a good level of performance throughout their career,until and unless being at the wrong side of age and fitness,then this is more or less applicable i suppose.the examples you provide are unlikely to change even with bigger sample size yes..except perhaps for david villa,but maybe not as he played alongside the arguable greatest player in history.
     
  13. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Lewandowski vs Harry Kane

    G+A-PK: 0.855-0.787

    Team Contribution: 39.80%-42.62%

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Goal Contribution% Peak
    In 100 Consecutive Matches

    [​IMG]

    Period
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Do you think Neymar is a "star player and legend who actually keep up a good level of performance throughout his career"? Compare his goal contribution percentage playing for Santos with that of Barça. Or compare his last season at Barça with his first at PSG. The goal contribution percentage was much lower at Barça playing alongside Messi. And it was much bigger playing for Santos and PSG where he was the focal point. (although in the later he was only the focal point in the first season because from the second onwards the focal point was Mbappé). As I said, it's harder to have a higher percentage playing with other stars on the same team. It's easier to have a higher percentage when you're the star and there's no one close to your level on the team
     
  16. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    ..
     
  17. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Goal Contribution% Peak
    In 200 Consecutive Matches

    [​IMG]

    Period
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Just out of curiosity. What is the "peak" at 20,000 minutes played consecutively?
     
  19. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    ...
     
  20. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    .....
     
  21. Praasen

    Praasen Member

    Mohun bagan
    Argentina
    Jan 8, 2023
    If you read my comment you can see i mentioned david villa as a probable exception among top players as he played with messi in barca.the same goes for neymar.neymar did play primarily as a winger/wing forward there rather than having a central role in attack as messi was there for that role.but there are a lot of opposite examples too.taking someone as big as cristiano,we can compare his scoring rate for the star studded madrid to his numbers in man u and juventus who were good sides but not as powerful and high scoring a la real madrid in the 2010's.
     
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  22. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    ..






    How are you my spiritual brother from India ...???


    Everything is Alright with you dear mate ??
     
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  23. Praasen

    Praasen Member

    Mohun bagan
    Argentina
    Jan 8, 2023
    There are other examples like lewandowski and what he did in a strong bayern compred to his numbers for other clubs.
     
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  24. Praasen

    Praasen Member

    Mohun bagan
    Argentina
    Jan 8, 2023
    I am Interested about zico's career penalty numbers.trachta10 surely has that.
     
  25. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    And that's exactly my point. Maradona would have a lower goal contribution percent if he get out of Argentinos Juniors to play for Flamengo with Zico or Juventus with Platini or to Bayern with Rummenigge. Today we live in the super clubs era with a lot of talent concentred in the best clubs so it's harder to get a high number of percent since the team doesn't depend mostly on one player to score/assist the goals. The comparison Trachta10 bring of Lewandowski and Kane is a prime example of this. Lewa shared the spotlights with Robben and Ribery while Kane was a soloist at Tottenham most of his career.
     

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