Goal contribution for the national team best players

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Trachta10, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Zico

    [​IMG]


    Played 71 games, 5336 minutes (75.15 mpg), scored 48 goals and 20 assists.
    The NT in 71 games, GF: 167 (2.352 pg)- GA: 44 (0.620 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.810
    Assists: 0.337
    G+A: 1.147

    Goal contribution: 34.42%
    G+A contribution: 48.76%



    Johan Cruyff

    [​IMG]

    Played 48 games, 4284 minutes (89.25 mpg), scored 33 goals and 26 assists.
    The NT in 48 games, GF: 122 (2.542 pg)- GA: 39 (0.813 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.693
    Assists: 0.546
    G+A: 1.239

    Goal contribution: 27.28%
    G+A contribution: 48.77%



    Diego Maradona

    [​IMG]

    Played 91 games, 8084 minutes (88.84 mpg), scored 34 goals and 33 assists.
    The NT in 91 games, GF: 137 (1.505 pg)- GA: 85 (0.934 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.379
    Assists: 0.367
    G+A: 0.746

    Goal contribution: 25.14%
    G+A contribution: 49.55%



    Marco van Basten

    [​IMG]

    Played 58 games, 4810 minutes (82.93 mpg), scored 24 goals and 13 assists.
    The NT in 58 games, GF: 88 (1.517 pg)- GA: 39 (0.672 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.449
    Assists: 0.243
    G+A: 0.692

    Goal contribution: 29.60%
    G+A contribution: 45.63%



    Romário


    [​IMG]

    Played 73 games, 5709 minutes (78.21 mpg), scored 55 goals and 12 assists.
    The NT in 70 games, GF: 160 (2.286 pg)- GA: 46 (0.657 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.867
    Assists: 0.189
    G+A: 1.056

    Goal contribution: 37.93%
    G+A contribution: 46.21%



    Ronaldo

    [​IMG]

    Played 105 games, 8249 minutes (78.56 mpg), scored 67 goals and 28 assists.
    The NT in 105 games, GF: 249 (2.371 pg)- GA: 79 (0.752 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.731
    Assists: 0.305
    G+A: 1.036

    Goal contribution: 30.83%
    G+A contribution: 43.71%



    Pelé

    [​IMG]

    Played 92 games, 7666 minutes (83.33 mpg), scored 77 goals and 30 assists.
    The NT in 92 games, GF: 235 (2.554 pg)- GA: 87 (0.946 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.904
    Assists: 0.352
    G+A: 1.256

    Goal contribution: 35.39%
    G+A contribution: 49.18%



    Neymar

    [​IMG]

    Played 101 games, 8261 minutes (81.79 mpg), scored 61 goals and 41 assists.
    The NT in 101 games, GF: 217 (2.149 pg)- GA: 60 (0.594 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.665
    Assists: 0.447
    G+A: 1.111

    Goal contribution: 30.93%
    G+A contribution: 51.72%



    Cristiano Ronaldo

    [​IMG]

    Played 165 games, 13040 minutes (79.03 mpg), scored 101 goals and 30 to 40 assists.
    The NT in 165 games, GF: 333 (2.018 pg)- GA: 137 (0.830 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.697
    Assists: 0.207 to 0.276
    G+A: 0.904 to 0.973

    Goal contribution: 34.54%
    G+A contribution: 44.80% to 48.22%



    Lionel Messi

    [​IMG]

    Played 138 games, 11295 minutes (81.85 mpg), scored 70 goals and 42 to 48 assists.
    The NT in 138 games, GF: 251 (1.819 pg)- GA: 119 (0.862 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.558
    Assists: 0.335 to 0.382
    G+A: 0.892 to 0.940

    Goal contribution: 30.67%
    G+A contribution: 49.07% to 51.69%
     
    Gregoire1, stcv1974 and Gregoriak repped this.
  2. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Thierry Henry

    [​IMG]

    Played 123 games, 9041 minutes (73.50 mpg), scored 51 goals and 31 assists.
    The NT in 123 games, GF: 227 (1.846 pg)- GA: 88 (0.715 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.508
    Assists: 0.309
    G+A: 0.816

    Goal contribution: 27.51%
    G+A contribution: 44.23%



    Robert Lewandowski

    [​IMG]

    Played 112 games, 8618 minutes (76.95 mpg), scored 61 goals and 16 assists.
    The NT in 112 games, GF: 195 (1.741 pg)- GA: 129 (1.152 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.637
    Assists: 0.167
    G+A: 0.804

    Goal contribution: 36.59%
    G+A contribution: 46.19%



    Luis Suárez

    [​IMG]

    Played 113 games, 9364 minutes (82.87 mpg), scored 59 goals and 29 assists.
    The NT in 113 games, GF: 204 (1.805 pg)- GA: 113 (1.000 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.567
    Assists: 0.279
    G+A: 0.846

    Goal contribution: 31.41%
    G+A contribution: 46.85%



    Harry Kane

    [​IMG]

    Played 47 games, 3651 minutes (77.68 mpg), scored 32 goals and 10 assists.
    The NT in 47 games, GF: 104 (2.213 pg)- GA: 40 (0.851 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.789
    Assists: 0.247
    G+A: 1.035

    Goal contribution: 35.65%
    G+A contribution: 46.79%



    Zlatan Ibrahimovic

    [​IMG]

    Played 116 games, 8588 minutes (74.03 mpg), scored 62 goals and 19 assists.
    The NT in 116 games, GF: 196 (1.690 pg)- GA: 111 (0.957 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.650
    Assists: 0.199
    G+A: 0.849

    Goal contribution: 38.45%
    G+A contribution: 50.24%



    Gerd Müller

    [​IMG]

    Played 62 games, 5528 minutes (89.16 mpg), scored 68 goals and 5 assists.
    The NT in 62 games, GF: 143 (2.306 pg)- GA: 43 (0.694 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 1.107
    Assists: 0.081
    G+A: 1.188

    Goal contribution: 48.00%
    G+A contribution: 51.53%



    Ruud van Nistelrooy

    [​IMG]

    Played 70 games, 4551 minutes (65.01 mpg), scored 35 goals and 1 assist.
    The NT in 70 games, GF: 137 (1.957 pg)- GA: 57 (0.814 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.692
    Assists: 0.020
    G+A: 0.712

    Goal contribution: 35.37%
    G+A contribution: 36.38%



    Gabriel Batistuta

    [​IMG]

    Played 79 games, 6732 minutes (85.22 mpg), scored 57 goals and 12 assists.
    The NT in 79 games, GF: 126 (1.636 pg)- GA: 68 (0.883 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.762
    Assists: 0.160
    G+A: 0.922

    Goal contribution: 46.57%
    G+A contribution: 56.37%
     
    Gregoire1, stcv1974 and Gregoriak repped this.
  3. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Players by goal contribution:

    Gerd Müller: 48.00%
    Gabriel Batistuta: 46.57%
    Zlatan Ibrahimovic: 38.45%
    Romário: 37.93%
    Robert Lewandowski: 36.59%
    Harry Kane: 35.65%
    Pelé: 35.39%
    Ruud van Nistelrooy: 35.37%
    Cristiano Ronaldo: 34.54%
    Zico: 34.42%
    Luis Suárez: 31.41%
    Neymar: 30.93%
    Ronaldo: 30.83%
    Lionel Messi: 30.67%
    Marco van Basten: 29.60%
    Thierry Henry: 27.51%
    Johan Cruyff: 27.28%
    Diego Maradona: 25.14%
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  4. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Players by goals+assists contribution:

    Gabriel Batistuta: 56.37%
    Neymar: 51.72%
    Lionel Messi: 51.69%
    Gerd Müller: 51.53%
    Zlatan Ibrahimovic: 50.24%
    Diego Maradona: 49.55%
    Pelé: 49.18%
    Johan Cruyff: 48.77%
    Zico: 48.76%
    Cristiano Ronaldo: 48.22%
    Luis Suárez: 46.85%
    Harry Kane: 46.79%
    Romário: 46.21%
    Robert Lewandowski: 46.19%
    Marco van Basten: 45.63%
    Thierry Henry: 44.23%
    Ronaldo: 43.71%
    Ruud van Nistelrooy: 36.38%
     
    stcv1974 and Gregoriak repped this.
  5. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Goals conceded:

    Neymar: 0.594
    Zico: 0.620
    Romário: 0.657
    Marco van Basten: 0.672
    Gerd Müller: 0.694
    Thierry Henry: 0.715
    Ronaldo: 0.752
    Johan Cruyff: 0.813
    Ruud van Nistelrooy: 0.814
    Cristiano Ronaldo: 0.830
    Harry Kane: 0.851
    Lionel Messi: 0.862
    Gabriel Batistuta: 0.883
    Diego Maradona: 0.934
    Pelé: 0.946
    Zlatan Ibrahimovic: 0.957
    Luis Suárez: 1.000
    Robert Lewandowski: 1.152
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  6. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Goal difference in %
    GF/(GF+GA)*100

    Zico: 79.15%
    Neymar: 78.34%
    Romário: 77.67%
    Gerd Müller: 76.88%
    Ronaldo: 75.91%
    Johan Cruyff: 75.78%
    Pelé: 72.98%
    Harry Kane: 72.22%
    Thierry Henry: 72.06%
    Cristiano Ronaldo: 70.85%
    Ruud van Nistelrooy: 70.62%
    Marco van Basten: 69.29%
    Lionel Messi: 67.84%
    Gabriel Batistuta: 64.95%
    Luis Suárez: 64.35%
    Zlatan Ibrahimovic: 63.84%
    Diego Maradona: 61.71%
    Robert Lewandowski: 60.19%
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  7. sohel_bashar

    sohel_bashar Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020
    1.Where did you get no of minutes for the old players ? And how accurate and reliable are they?

    2. Assists weren't recorded accurately in previous eras . Where did you get the assists numbers for Pele, Muller, Zico etc? (For Maradona's there's a video on youtube with all his assists (32) for National team :- )

    3. Where did you get messi's assists stats? you got the data from Opta? I assume you're taking that from Transfermarkt - inflates assists a lot . For example, they provided him 3 more assists in WC. Opta gave him 5. Transfermarkt includes deflected ,rebound etc as assists. Unless we get Opta data for messi, you can't correctly say how many assists he has.

    Then your estimation of by first dividing (g/a per 90 min) by goal rate is not also correct . It assumes their teams were scoring at the same rate linearly when they were not on the field in the match.There are a lot of discrepancies like that in this.
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This video includes unofficial games. That makes (of course) Trachta his count incorrect.
     
    Tropeiro repped this.
  9. sohel_bashar

    sohel_bashar Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020
    This guy calculated min 33 assists for Pele (list of all matches with goals,assists for NT)


    It differs from your data .
    If we count by his data, pele had 77 g+33 a , in 7666 minutes(as per you)
    So by your method ( though its incorrect imo) , Pele has
    G+A contribution : (110*90/7666) / 2.554 = 50.56 %





    Messi's team scored 252 goals . So his team's goal rate was 1.826 not 1.819
    Then only by your numbers,
    G+A contribution: 48.87% to 51.05%

    Not to mention, the assist data from Transfermarkt (which you're using here probably) is inflated always. They gave him 3 more assists in WC , around 20 more league assists compared to OPTA. Transfermarkt includes rebounded, deflected and every types as assists . Even after that,you seem to increase the inflated assist number by one.


    Again here Batistuta played 77 international matches (54 goals) (http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/batistuta-intlg.html ) So most probably you're minutes numbers are also wrong.

    This video has all 56 (54 official) goals of Batistuta


    He scored 2 goals vs Slovakia league xi in 1996 which is not considered official. And his team scored 6 goals in that match.

    So if you count those two goals to make it 56 goals (you increased the number by 1 here too), his team's gpg was 132/78= 1.692

    Considering your assists no to be correct (god knows what's the source) ,
    g+a contribution : 53.92%


    These are only few examples. Most probably there are similiar discrepancies for other player's numbers too.

    And again, what's your source of the minutes and other numbers for older players and how reliable/correct are they? I doubt.
    Besides it seems that you are manipulating the data a bit , decreasing/inventing numbers for older players whereas inflating it for some particular players like Messi , Batistuta ... Like , you have some sort of urge to increase the stat for Argentine players in particular .
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #10 PuckVanHeel, Sep 15, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
    It is blatantly incorrect with unofficial games added (national team vs club) for certain players, and not others, but of course some will eat this with a silver spoon.

    If we add unofficial games then Pele has over 100 caps. I have seen it added in overviews.
     
    sohel_bashar repped this.
  11. sohel_bashar

    sohel_bashar Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020
    #11 sohel_bashar, Sep 15, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
    Yeah. This site has all matches of Brazil national team ever (including those unofficial ones. Pele's ones too)
    http://torcida.com.ru/allmatch/?fbclid=IwAR0_y5e34gAWzvW1e9hOG080O6c5V10lRTVL0pmqmTrAoo9o0PeXmjnmv8Y

    There exists such matches for a lot of these players .


    His numbers has lot of discrepancies as i pointed out above.
     
  12. sohel_bashar

    sohel_bashar Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020
    #12 sohel_bashar, Sep 15, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
    Btw, I just counted the no of goals by Argentina with Messi on field.

    Transfermarkt inflates stats, so we don't know his actual assists data. For example, they gave him 3 more assists in WC than he actually had.
    So he has 70 goals. At Maximum 44 assists (47- '3' inflated ones we already know). His team scored 229 goals with him on the field.
    Messi's actual G+A contribution (at Maximum) : 114/229 = 49.78%

    And lastly, there are lot of Variables going on the field which fluctuates these stats a lot. I'll use three players for demonstrating this.

    For example , as per his data , Maradona's G+A contribution : 49.55%
    Pele
    's G+A (min) contribution as per the source i've given above : 50.56%
    Messi
    's G+A contribution (at Maximum) = 49.78%

    Maradona had 3 PK goals as per this video : https://www.youtube.com/results?sea...+goals+fro+argentina&ab_channel=Jwasc92Futbol
    Maradona's team was scoring at rate of 1.472 without those PK .
    Maradona's nonPk G+A per 90 min = (34+33 - 3) *90/8084 =0.7125

    I had a link (unable to find it now) which listed each of goals along with which was Penalty .Pele had 77 PK goals in official matches, 7 PK goals for Brazil . [I will provide it if i find it. Maybe ,some user here has it too. Without those 7 Pk, Pele's team was scoring at rate of 2.478 .
    Pele's nonPk G+A per 90 min
    = ( 77+33 -7)*90/7,666 = 1.209
    Messi has 14 PK goals for Argentina.

    So if we count non-pK G+A contributions :

    Pele : 1.209/ 2.478 = 48.79%
    Maradona : 0.7125/1.472 = 48.40%
    Messi : (70-14 + 44)/(229-14) = 46.51%

    See ?? Messi's rate now gone behind Maradona's w/o PKs.
    These percentages Fluctuates a lot due to slight change in various variables .
    I only used Messi, pele, maradona above as example . I'm sure similiar will be the case (discrepancies) for the numbers of lot of these Players .
    Not to mention , only god knows where he is inventing these numbers of minutes,assists for pre 21st century players and how accurate/reliable are these. You used different sources for different players which also generates discrepancies


    Lastly,Football is more than numbers .And these numbers are not even normalised due to lack of reliable and consistent common source for all players.
    So he should stop bs with these numbers.
    Btw, one common pattern (perhaps only meaningful thing) we can see from these is that all elite forwards has a direct contribution of around 50% of team goals scored .
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  13. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    #13 Trachta10, Sep 15, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
    Hi, well of course will be discrepancies for assists and minutes, I try to be objective. I got the minutes for older player on this web
    https://www.footballdatabase.eu/en/player/details/863
    but it seems to be offline now

    Tried to open it with webarchive, and made a screenshot of minutes for Batistuta. 79 games 6732 minutes

    [​IMG]

    Pelé 92 games 7666 minutes
    [​IMG]

    For the assists of Pelé, Zico and Cruyff I got that from threads here on this web

    and for assists and minutes for others players I use wikipedia and transfermarkt

    The 42 assists for Messi
    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:partidos_de_Lionel_Messi_en_la_Selección_Argentina
     
    stcv1974 repped this.
  14. sohel_bashar

    sohel_bashar Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020
    They counted two unofficial games of Batistuta there . One against Solvakia League 6-0 on 22/ 6/95, where he scored twice.
    In 98/99 season too,they calculated one extra match

    Saw it . But they didn't mention their sources . Btw ,they got pele's position wrong as typical upload_2020-9-16_10-39-19.png



    Different sources give different data for even a current player. Transfermarkt inflates assists as i already said.

    And see? You are using data from varieties of sources to make these numbers . That's where the problem is. While numbers for some players are getting inflated because of that, its decreasing for some others .
     
  15. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Michel Platini
    [​IMG]

    Played 72 games, 6294 minutes (87.42 mpg), scored 41 goals and 20 assists.
    The NT in 72 games, GF: 127 (1.764 pg)- GA: 63 (0.875 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.586
    Assists: 0.286
    G+A: 0.872

    Goal contribution: 33.24%
    G+A contribution: 49.45%


    Andriy Shevchenko
    [​IMG]

    Played 111 games, 8615 minutes (77.61 mpg), scored 48 goals and 15 assists.
    The NT in 111 games, GF: 152 (1.369 pg)- GA: 117 (1.054 pg)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.501
    Assists: 0.157
    G+A: 0.658

    Goal contribution: 36.62%
    G+A contribution: 48.06%
     
    comme repped this.
  16. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    #16 Tropeiro, Dec 2, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
    Actually Pelé had more according @TomasRosolino, he counted all assists from all matches in the Brazilian NT (friendlies and not), some maybe are wide assists or I don't know, but he credited and calculated most of the matches, different than the user Lucas... who made a lazy work.

    https://www.goal.com/br/notícias/todas-as-assistencias-da-selecao-brasileira-desde-1930-veja/108mvistgksqy1kefgvujl9lvm?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=brfb



     
  17. Caspian

    Caspian Member

    Sep 15, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Timely post,Tro,very timely i would say...
    Correct me if im wrong is this figure inclusive of the Peru 70 assist or not...
    If not then it should be 49 assists
     
    Tropeiro repped this.
  18. Caspian

    Caspian Member

    Sep 15, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Then its 8 goals and 6 assists for Pele in 59 Copa...
    Looks like the greatest ever Copa performance
     
  19. sohel_bashar

    sohel_bashar Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020
    Yes i saw that later. The first guy (Wesley Iuri) who counted them didn't have all of the newspapers ,videos and sources. That's why he said Minimum. He also confirmed under the thread he didn't have them all.

    I checked some of the footages of the games that the journalist Tomas Rosolino calculated from various years and it seems to match properly in those matches.



    Btw here are the official assists every year :

     
    Caspian repped this.
  20. sohel_bashar

    sohel_bashar Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020

    He didn't the count the assist to the Jairzinho goal where Jairzinho made a run and then scored. Opta and other sources counts that as assist though.

    And he didn't include penalties won it seems :

     
    Caspian repped this.
  21. Caspian

    Caspian Member

    Sep 15, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    He seems to have left out the 58 WC finals assist too did you notice...
     
  22. sohel_bashar

    sohel_bashar Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020
    Did pele touch the ball on that assist to Vava ?
     
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, I think so, and also created the opening:
    BRAZIL vs USSR- ROUND - WORLDCUP - 1958 - YouTube
    But if deflections on passes would mean no assist, as I assume might generally be the case even if minor with no deviation of the ball really, then he wouldn't have an assist vs USSR in 1965 in the home game I guess (on goal shown from around 35 minutes on this video):
    21.11.1965. BRAZIL-USSR Friendly Match - YouTube
    For the away game I do think it is one assist on top of his two goals though.
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  24. sohel_bashar

    sohel_bashar Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020
    Actually i know Pele assisted vs USSR in his first WC game. I was talking about the first goal of Brazil in 1958 final. The one Garrincha crossed and Vava and Pele was between the delivery.
     
  25. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Ah, ok, yeah it's difficult to be sure isn't it (Pele and the defender both stretch their leg towards the ball but it doesn't seem clear either got a touch I think before it gets to Vava, and I guess it makes most sense to just call it a Garrincha assist probably), but I'd tend to think not.
     
    sohel_bashar repped this.

Share This Page