go for a youth movement at striker?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by mrliioadin, Jul 8, 2007.

  1. mrliioadin

    mrliioadin New Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Hagerstown, MD
    I don't often start threads on here these days but this has been on my mind even before the youth success at the youth world cup.

    When you look at the performance of our strikers game after game struggling in front of net and having to "do the best we can" with Ching and Johnson. Occasionally we get to watch twellman head some shots over the bar... Why don't we just drop them and bring in the kids. Most of these guys are quite young already but when you look at the talent that Altidor, Zimmerman, Possibly Ferrari (though I haven't seen him play I heard good things), even Adu if we had to, why don't we just bring them in and loose the guys who can only hit the net when donovan presents it to them on a silver platter.

    Obviously we can do different things like moving Dempsey up top and sometimes Donovan to help us out but it still seems to be that if you can keep Donovan a step behind the forwards you get a much better performance... Dempsey isn't the best Right Mid i've ever seen but hopefully he will learn to cross and if he doesn't he'll still find a way to do something to get himself in a great position to put one away.

    Now, I am realistic... you can't just decide to dump them into the first team on day 1 and wave goodbye to your "vets"... All I'm suggesting is, we might wanna take a chance in some of these friendlies coming up and start and play guys like Kamani Hill, Charlie Davis, Jozey Altidor, Preston Zimmerman and let Johnson/Ching/Twellman watch from the sidelines or maybe ever from the states.

    Maybe we could give em a shot in the early rounds of qualifying. The first round (if it's anything like it was last time around) will likely match us up with someone like the Turks and Caicos, Montserrat, Cayman Islands, or the US or British Virgin Islands. Teams that even we could beat in our sleep, let these guys have a go... I think it's time we try to phase them out, what could it hurt? It might even motivate Johnson (who is looking better) to maybe take it a step past a jog.

    Just a thought. The striker situation to me is so frustrating right now. I see our team developing rather impressive depth at every position on the field but our strikers..... Well, I'm loosing my hair.

    It's nice we keep getting goals from Midfield and even the Back line.
  2. Plxix

    Plxix BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 13, 2006
    I agree with this 100%.
  3. joamiq

    joamiq New Member

    Feb 14, 2006
    Same here. Altidore right now is probably our best striker period.
    Altidore, Smith, Hill, Davies, Zimmerman, Ferrari. Out of that group, one or two guys will step up to be the future goalscorers for the US. I think Jozy is ready to make the transition to the senior team now.
  4. bostonf4lyf

    bostonf4lyf Member

    Mar 18, 2006
    as i agree with this assesment that we need to go young. zimmerman and ferrari are stretches, they are not ready. even hill or davies i dont have confidence with. smith could be a weapon with his speed, but he is more of a winger than forward, and we are pretty much covered on the wings. altidore should be tested though, he has the most promise of all our forwards
  5. mrliioadin

    mrliioadin New Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Hagerstown, MD
    I forgot to mention Zizzo could probably fill in as well... he's ready to move to the MLS from what little I've seen.
  6. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have wondered why the same experiment cannot be conducted using Mapp. He plays a crowded position, can dribble better than most US players, and playing forward would mask most of his defensive liabilities.

    I agree that the long term answer lies with the US youth players, but Mapp is at least as qualified for the position as Dempsey.
  7. Aaryque

    Aaryque Member

    Apr 26, 2007
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mapp hasn't come anywhere near showing the composure on the ball, distribution or finishing skills that Dempsey has. Matter of fact the only skills he has shown are those of making maze-y runs and splitting a few defenders. A nice skill but, on its own, one that makes him more suited for the supersub role.
  8. southernsoccerdoc

    southernsoccerdoc New Member

    Jul 7, 2006
    Williamsburg, Va.
    The next 6 -9 months would be a great time to give the young guys a sustained chance to see what they can do. I agree that we are not going to get to the point where we can compete with and beat the top national teams with our current group of strikers.
  9. rolfefan1717

    rolfefan1717 New Member

    Nov 2, 2005
    Dayton Ohio
    mapp is anything but a striker. he seems stalled in his development. his off the ball movement remains poor, his distribution is average, he tends to drift out of games, and only shows moments of brilliance that leave you wanting more... Right now he needs to be droped from nt and decide if he wants to become a more complete player or simple remain a "limited" player.
  10. rolfefan1717

    rolfefan1717 New Member

    Nov 2, 2005
    Dayton Ohio
    Also, Altidore and johnson could potentially be a dangerous front line. Altidore is clearly the future, and if we play a 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 formation would be our best bet as the lone striker for the wc 2010. might as well give him his shot now as this is how i see us lining up tactically.
  11. USA2010?

    USA2010? Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    I've been writing the same thing since Copa ended. What have we got to lose since our "strike force" is doing nothing? Remember, the qualifiers are more than a year away. We've got a bunch of friendlies to throw Altidore into. I don't see the need to rush Adu in there - our midfield with Donovan, Feilhaber, Clark, Dempsey, etc. is fine.

    Where I would throw Adu in is when we qualify and have some extra games, then I would toss Freddy in. By then, Jan/Feb 2009, he should have some European time under his belt. If our attacking midfield was as weak as our forwards, then I would toss Freddy in today, but that's a crisis we don't have to face...Thank God.
  12. oman

    oman Member

    Jan 7, 2000
    South of Frisconsin
    It would have been nice to see K. Cooper in this last tournament, if only to see him hustle and try to close something out. He still has the potential to pair up nicely with someone like Altidore.
  13. mrliioadin

    mrliioadin New Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Hagerstown, MD
    We are really only one deep at A-mid. if you move donovan we end up going with two D-Mids... or at least less attack minded middies... It works well because of the attacking mind of Dempsey, Beasley, Convey, Mapp, Ralston (i'm still a Ralston fan... call me what you will but I love watching crosses go somewhere near our strikers heads from the right side of the pitch).

    Anyway my point, using Adu as a sub, especially since Landon would rather chill with Becks it seems, is not such a bad thing... He might not see a ton of minutes but can still provide a lot of options for Bob Bradley.

    Donovan is still a strong striker... not his best position but if it's a question of getting them both on the pitch (which is the wrong way to set a lineup imo, but let's play that game anyway) you could always pair him with Altidore. You don't get the very semetrical (I'll learn to spell later) Target Man -- Speedy Guy partenership but that aside any combination of Beasley Donovan Altidore and Dempsey comming at you on a counter attack is enough to scare ya a bit... But you'll be ok in the end I promise... Donovan to finish... wiffs and falls down.......... No wait, beasley wide open in front of net... CROSSBAR. C'mon Beas... throw your lunch at it, it'll go in... you obviously aren't gonna eat it!

    If that made no sense, sorry... sleeping pill kicking in and I'm just about lights out. :)

    Oh, if I remember right, last cycles matches against Grenada started in February... I could be wrong.
  14. USINEU

    USINEU New Member

    Jun 9, 2006
    I agree that current attack is weak and youth attack shows promise. But, we cant push too hard or it could be detrimental. What I would like to see, is to give some young guys a look at the next 2 friendlies: Sweden & Switzerland. Ferrari, Zimmerman, and Smith all play in the EU. So, quite convenient to have them show up. However, I mean a look, and an elder player should be there alongside. Perhaps a 4-4-2 and have Ching play vs. Sweden with one of the others. Then sub after a 60-70 minutes.
  15. Late88

    Late88 New Member

    Jul 2, 2007
    Zimmerman is horrible.
  16. USA2010?

    USA2010? Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Looking 3 years down the road, Adu will be 21. If he develops into half the player we think he will, he should be ready for the WC. The US could play:

    Donovan (I like LD playing as a recessed striker - he's does a great job of going back and getting the ball)
    Back 4 or 3 and 1

    I would think that these six should give us a nice offense. Sure, Zizzo may be a stretch, but he'll be 23 and should have 3 European years under his belt. If he develops, he might be ahead of Dempsey, at least from a strategy point of view - a real winger.

    So, if you buy into this front line for 2010, we should be trying to get these guys minutes now. That's what friendlies are for.
  17. mrliioadin

    mrliioadin New Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Hagerstown, MD
    I don't really agree... We need strikers so we play the best we got... if Altidore doesn't light it up, what's the big deal... Even if Altidore ends up being a younger EJ we still really haven't lost anything. EJ has very little to no value to us. He needs to sit in the MLS, play a season through all the way, be the leading scorer, try to get a contract in FBL1 (would be pretty nice) or norway, or scotland, hell mix it up and go play in Japan.

    We know Johnson has the ability to be something. He looked excellent when he first broke into the lineup. He has struggled with injuries but I do believe in the future he could return to the team. But I think he'd need to do something quite impressive. Stay the course though, he is getting better, just not very fast.

    The only disadvantage to possibly playing any of these young guys is the stage fright issue. First of all I don't think it will be the case for any of them. You throw them in a big game in front of net and they show up, we've seen that. But if the coaching staff is patient with them and supportive of them, they can overcome any amount of stage fright.

    Nerves in the first few games are understandable. watch him in his first 10 and then start to form an opinion.

    Which youth guys would you guys probably support?

    If we went with four on our lineup, 2 starters 2 subs to remain somewhat traditional.

    Ferarri (or would you consider Zizzo?) (or Charlie Davis?)
  18. alocksley

    alocksley Member

    Jan 30, 2004
    Burbank, CA
    History of decent American strikers:



    That's pretty much it.

    It's a position we've been thin at forever. We all had such high hopes for EJ after the fast start to his Nats career. Such a disappointment. Guess we need to be patient and wait for one of the kids to emerge...
  19. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Dylan's been called worse. :)

    Sorry, I kid.

    Back on topic: it's Altidore and then everyone else. Joey can't mature & get older fast enough and as for the rest, they simply just need to get better or someone, somewhere will or should hopefully emerge.

    We shall see.
  20. ussoccerFan12358

    Mar 11, 2006
    Central NY
    Assuming we stay with the 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 I say we play Davies against Sweden (he plays there) maybe pair him up with Dempsey as a withdrawn forward, or Adu maybe with Donovan wide and Feilhaber+Bradley/Clark in the middle, and Mapp or Beas outside. Other games later.:eek:
  21. mrliioadin

    mrliioadin New Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Hagerstown, MD
    Mapp has played pretty well, but with Beas Convey on one side and Dempsey Zizzo now on the other (I do consider Zizzo to be our 2nd best right mid) Ralston is available to... I just don't see the point in Mapp. He'll get call ups when Beas/Convey are unavailable or as a sub is it's one or the other. but, I've dropped him from my lineup.
  22. illinizissou

    illinizissou New Member

    Jun 11, 2006
    Please, please don't lump Ching in with Johnson. Sure Ching is getting old, but for the most part he has been successful for the US as of late. Johnson has had more ups and downs than the American Eagle at Six Flags.

    I think the U-20 forwards are the future for '10. The real question is who is ready for a chance now? Personally I think Altidore and Zizzo, are ready. I stand by my earlier statement that Altidore is the future and present of the USMNT forwards and that he can be the player to take soccer to the next level in the US if he can handle the pressure.
  23. Adam Zebrowski

    Adam Zebrowski New Member

    May 28, 1999
    ching and donovan start off the wcq process up top...

    altidore has the olympic gig and enters the seniors after that...

    so basically we have ching and altidore, depending on the style of foward you want...

    now is it donovan or adu and how do they coexist on the same field ??
  24. joamiq

    joamiq New Member

    Feb 14, 2006
    I would personally love to see Altidore and Donovan start up top together. Altidore is developing very nicely as a target forward. He's big and strong and has good touch, so he's good at receiving the ball, holding it and fighting off defenders, and either turning towards the goal or laying it off. I would love to see Donovan run off of him. It could be a lethal combination of power and speed, with two guys who both have good touch and vision and finishing skills. Adu could play behind them both or on the opposite side of Altidore from Donovan to give them both space. Not sure whether this would work in practice - specifically, whether Donovan will develop good chemistry with Altidore and Adu (who already seem to work ridiculously well together) - but I think we'll have to give it a shot down the road.
  25. giffenbone

    giffenbone Member

    Jan 22, 2006
    Raleigh, NC
    The youth movement can't be any worse than what we have now...

    Jozy, Ferrari, Davies, etc.

    in 3 years we might not even remember EJ, TT, and Ching...:rolleyes:

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