Glazer/United Continued Again

He didn't say that...wow some people will bend and twist anything to suit them!

He said should a player like Rooney come along he'll back Fergie up and give him the money, not give him an unlimited transfer budget yer noob...

 

by the way you're correct on that but, i think i read some other article about it, it says that there'll be no cap on purchasing new players...

 

why don't you tell the loyal MANU investors NOT to sell their shares of the club to them. i'm uncertain of the outcome with the glazers but is american money a different color???? It still has value. they are doing and saying the right things now. Newsflash, the team is not great and didn't win a trophy last year, that is unacceptable by manu standards. change is not always the worst thing. i guarentee you will forget about the glazers if you win the league and they were the ones responsable for it. even if MANU wins 1 trophy, the glazers did a better job. they may not love football but they will financially back the team and fergie. get over the fact that it is american money and grow up. if MANU wins, you will go to the stadium. if you don't, there will be another but in your seat. i thought manu fans supported the players???? if you don't go, whom do you support?? get over the fact that we as americans are becoming more involved in football as fans, players, coaches and owners.

 

soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=336479&cc=5901

 

i think he will do everything possible to make his first season memorable.

 

Which shows, as we've pointed out before, that he is concerned with making money, not with soccer. He doesn't care that the Premiership is the best league in the world, only that it is the most lucrative.

He'll make money in whatever way he can, whether or not it involves winning. Ask fans of Leeds and Borussia Dortmund whether winning equates financial stability.

 

Fixed.

 

Fixed.

 

Look you do not KNOW what he will do or how he will do it. The only consideration you should have is how the team performs on the field. You question all of his motives as if your fears have come true already. I do not think that people are being rational on this topic. Everyone seems to be looking at it from the worst case scenario as if there is no other possibility about how this turn out. I think that that is unfair.

 

Look you do not KNOW that the Premiership won't be won this season by, say, Wigan. But you can come to an educated guess based on past outcomes as well as future assumptions. We know what tactics Gl*zer has used in his time as owner of the Bucs, and we know that since they won the Super Bowl, he has done fvck all to build on their success. We know that Gl*zer has no interest in the sport of soccer, or he would have taken up multiple opportunities to invest in MLS, as other billionaires have. We also know that the purchase of Man United isn't fulfilling a lifelong passion for the club--it's all about making money in whatever way possible.

Completely false. Trading long-term financial stability for short-term success might please the fans today, but if things aren't fixed, heads will roll tomorrow. As I've said many, many times, if you haven't read up on the recent histories of BVB and/or Leeds (which you obviously haven't), please do so.

Again, if the "Gl*zer PR club" turns out to be right, no one will be happier than us. But almost every economic and media analysis has come to the conclusion that its going to be very difficult to raise revenues to the level that can pay off the debts. If you're not willing to look at it from a financial standpoint, which you aren't doing, then I'm not willing to respond further to your repetitive, childish posts.

 

Why does it suck? because there isn't enought teams or competition to drive it up.

Now if the Glazers had invested their $248 million in their home land they could have got in on the ground floor driven up the market interest and generated a good ROI.

Why man U and why talk other NFL owners into getting involved. 1 league in europe or the world pull players out of Fifa and create the Super league that has been on the horizon for years, but noone has taken the plunge yet.

PS for your information the American money in this deal is a different colour. ITS RED and not BLACK.

 

Why does it suck? because there isn't enought teams or competition to drive it up.

Now if the Glazers had invested their $248 million in their home land they could have got in on the ground floor driven up the market interest and generated a good ROI.

Why man U and why talk other NFL owners into getting involved. 1 league in europe or the world pull players out of Fifa and create the Super league that has been on the horizon for years, but noone has taken the plunge yet.

PS for information the American money in this deal is a different colour. ITS RED and not BLACK.

 

Can you perhaps tell that I was feeling a little frustrated the other night when I posted? I'm alot calmer now so this'll have a different tone to it altogether.

I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure that you're being sarcastic when you use the term loyal investors and if that is the case then it's a valid point. There's no doubt about it that many of the major shareholders, when the club was a PLC saw their shareholding as a way to make money either through yearly dividends being paid on their shares or they knew that one day the club would be sold, or in other words they saw it as an investment oppurtunity. I suppose the question, therefore, should be why weren't many fans up in arms and disgruntled with the PLC for taking money out of the club?

Some were, but not many, in fact I barely remember hearing a whisper but there were whispers nontheless, perhaps they were the more clued up type, more clued up than me certainly . I'll admit that I thought stock-market flotation was a great idea, I thought, "Yeah!!! Great!! more money for the team, more money to help re-develop the stadium and a chance for fans to buy a few shares to make them feel like they owned a part of the club". How wrong I think I was in retrospect.

If I have any excuses it is because I was only a child at the time of the flotation and that fans in general were much less aware of the business side of football in those days. The ever-increasing boom in football in England, which started with the formation of the premiership, or perhaps a little earlier with Italia '90 as England did well in that tournament saw many more people becoming interested in the game and meant that media coverage grew and grew and we now have, and have had blanket coverage for a number of years.

Football was always the national sport but has never enjoyed so much coverage in the media, it got dragged out of the dark days of the 70's and much of the 80's when attendances were down and the game would be associated with riots and hooligans by the general public, which in fairness probably reflected much of English and British society as a whole. The country was in quite a state in those days with many recessions, many worker's strikes, quite a few riots over this and that and a general feeling of disatisfaction for government and those in power.

You probably didn't need the history lesson but I guess what I'm trying to say is that since football began it's rennaisance and the media coverage has increased on television, radio, newspapers and perhaps most critically the development of the internet which can be used for the discussion and rapid sharing of information the fans and general public from all across the globe are much more educated about the game on all levels including what happens inside the boardroom.

Perhaps fans were a little naive in the past and only interested in what happened on the field and who the new signings were going to be. I am guilty as charged on these counts.

The increasing commercialisation of the game has probably attracted more affluent and intelligent people than myself and most of my friends to the game. Accountants and businessmen might want to know a little about this side of the game so we now see more of this kind of thing being reported. Doctors and physicians who also follow the game might want to know more about the health and injuries of players so we see more of this in the media ....... good things all round if you ask me. The game has also been opened up to many more women and parents feel much safer allowing their children to attend a game, again, great.

Fans in general are now much more aware of everything to do with the game. The information explosion saw to this and now many feel empowered with new depths of knowledge that in the past they simply didn't have. I certainly didn't have access to as much information on all aspects of the game even ten years ago compared with the amount that is now easily accessible.

In a previous paragraph I stated that perhaps fans were naive in the past, but there is now no doubt about it in my eyes, we were. If any club were to announce today that it was to float on the stock exchange there would now be many more dissenting voices than there was in the early nineties. I was stupid enough to believe that it would be "cool" to own a few shares and be part of the team I support, add in a cash injection and it was the greatest idea ever in my eyes.

A few years after the flotation I personally got my own first taste of why the PLC could be bad. My father had been taking myself and my brother to the games for two years, we started going in 87-88 to a few games here and there and after a couple of seasons my dad decided to get us LMTB's, (League Match Ticket Books), situated in the family stand. That was best present a dad could ever buy his son as far as I was concerned and I was dancing for joy. We had some great times, including going to the cup final in 1990, going to the games on the way to our ECWC triumph in 91, watching the team just miss out on the title in 91/92 and seeing the reds crowned champions in 92/93 and then the double the following season. I didn't have to wait as long as many to see United crowned champions of England, but I did have to wait a little while. I remembered when they were crap when I first started going and saw the team build and build, this was something I was very proud of.

It was towards then end of the 93/94 season that I turned 16 years old. What does this have to do with anything? Well it meant that we could no longer go into the family stand, which gave pretty decent discounts on tickets to both adults and children to watch games. It meant that if we wanted to keep our tickets my father would have to pay for three full-priced adult LMTB's, (which were going up 10% that year anyway), somewhere else inside the stadium and was something he could simply not afford. A few years before this, (and before United became a PLC), my father had a work colleague who also found himself in a similar situation, faced with a big rise in ticket prices if he wanted to be able to take his kid to watch the games the following season who had contacted United and explained the situation to them, saying that he couldn't afford the increase and that his son was in full-time education (you can leave school at 16 here but don't have to) and not working but he'd still love to attend the games with his lad. United wrote back and offered to freeze prices for his son until he turned 18. This was great PR in my opinion, the type of thing that made fans feel as though they belonged to the club, that they mattered.

My dad decided to try the same thing and wrote off to United explaining his situation thinking that the club may very well help him out but got a letter back saying they couldn't. He tried again and mentioned his work-colleague and how they had helped him in the past to be told that this kind of thing was no longer financially viable as the club now had shareholders to answer to. This was like being kicked in the guts. We'd been going regularly for a few years including when the team was struggling, including when the club changed the message on the scoreboard to "Thank you for your loyal support" instead of "Thank you for your support" after announcing the attendance for the game. We were there when the attendance for a game Vs. Wimbledon was officially announced as being somewhere aroud the 25,000 mark when anyone with eyes could see that the actual attendance was around 15,000 as season ticket holders were automatically counted whteher they attended or not.

We showed our loyalty to the team, doing our bit, cheering and singing like mad when the team needed our support but where were they when we needed a little help in return? Absolutely nowhere. We weren't "financially viable" anymore as the team was now popular and they could easily sell our seats to somebody else and in the eyes of the club had evolved from being "loyal supporters" into customers. As you can probably gather, this was a very bitter pill to swallow for a 16 year-old kid living half an hour's walk from Old Trafford who didn't feel welcome anymore. Up until then it always felt like my club or the fans club to me personally but after that episode I changed my mind. I'm still bitter about that one today but it opened my eyes a little, something which I suppose I'm grateful for.

For 3 seasons I didn't go to a single game because of lack of finances, I wanted to despite the fact that I disliked the PLC and what it stood for but did I still consider myself a fan of Manchester United? Yes. Did I read every article on the club I could find? Yes. Did I listen to games on the radio and watch on TV? Yes. I was and always will be a fan, I've done it before without attending games and I'll do it again.

Since 97/98 I have only been going to games on an individual match basis through OneUnited membership and have sung my heart for the lads on many an occasion, I've also been lucky enough to have access to the occasional free ticket through contacts of my father for the past 2 seasons but personally the Glazers were the last straw for me. I won't be putting any money whatsoever into their pockets. I thought the PLC was bad but at least I'd know for sure that most of the money, after dividend payouts would be going to help the club and the team but with the Glazers I'm not so sure.

I've heard horror stories on various internet forums about how they treated the Tampa Bay fans and I refuse to be treated the same way.I also fear that many friends of mine, workmates etc. may not be able to afford to go in the future (I'm a lowly fork-lift driver if anyone cares). It may be hypocritical of me but I will still go to games if I can get some freebie tickets but as far as paying for them goes, forget it. I've cancelled my MUTV and am considering cancelling Sky Sports but will still go and watch the games down the pub and will still consider myself a fan. This was all decided with an extremely heavy-heart.

I just don't see why the Glazers would be there if it wasn't an attempted money-making exercise, a high risk money making exercise at that which threatens the stability of the club that I, and many of you reading this love. It is my personal belief that they can only make money by screwing the fans, if you think that this is not the case I respect that and won't argue anymore, after all we're supposed to be united, right? That is why I chewed that guy from Detroit out the other night, and if you're reading this, I'm sorry mate,but these are difficult times. Maybe I've always been too idealstic and am a little bitter about what I see as over-commercialisation and lack of being appreciated following my experience with the PLC, whom I rightly or wrongly were disatissfied with for past events. Selling stadium naming rights to me would feel like selling part of our tradition and heritage, selling them to pay off a debt that the majority of fans, including myself didn't want is why I was angry about that.

Jesus, I feel like John Lennon but "Imagine" if there was a club that was founded for the fans, by the fans. This is why FC United of Manchester has a certain appeal to me and I can very well see myself down there next season but I don't feel disloyal in the slightest by saying that, maybe I'll grow some affection for them but I am definitely curious about them. I've been naive in the past but not anymore, United was never the fans club, it's taken me a long time to realise that but for along time it felt like it was, to me at least. I still want them to win and be successful, I will still be happy on the days they win, sad on the days they lose, I just won't be there anymore. I don't want to be fleeced .Football used to feel like our team vs. their team and our fans vs. their fans, almost tribal if you like, but now it feels like what's going on on the field is only a sideshow while it's being run for the benefit of a few rich men trying to get richer. There are a growing number of people in this country, and I'm sure in the states too with your major sports, that are becoming evermore dissatisfied with many aspects of the game including replica shirt costs, ticket prices, players who are seen as overpaid and who don't put the effort week in week out, dodgy owners, (see Wrexham), the list is getting longer but in the end they all stem from the same thing: money. These peoples arguments have held great sway with me, maybe it's a class thing, maybe it's a jelousy issue (shrug), maybe I'm a secret socialist when I always considered myself slightly right-of centre but I tend to agree with them.

OK, kylesoccer, I suppose I should start responding to the points you made instead of going off on a big tangent and rambling the way I did but I just wanted to let you and others know where I was coming from.

Just to be pedantic, American money is green where ours is all kinds of funky colours . It's not an American thing, seriously, it's not. If an American wanted to invest as much money into the club as Abramovich has at Chelsea I'd be happy. The real issue here is that it's not money he's putting into the club, it's debt, simple really.

I'd welcome the dollar, the yen the rouble, the pound, the franc the florin, whatever as long as it didn't mean a mountain of debt.

I'm also aware that the team didn't win anything last year but this is so much more important than that. I'd much less unease about supporting a well run and financially stable team that is mediocre or even crap and in League 2 than I do about supporting United right now but you know how it is, you can't help who you support.

So the Glazer's will financially invest in United? How? I'm trying my hardest not to be an a-hole, seriously I am but they've mortgaged everything they own (including United) to buy United. Where's the money coming from? From the fans is the only answer that springs to my mind at least. So nothing's changed then really? But yes it has because now we'll be paying off a massive debt as well as providing the money for players etc. not good.

It's American money? It's actually American debt.
I thought fans supported the players? We do, I'll be yelling very loudly at various T.V. sets in pubs all over Manchester for the forseeable future.
If I don't go who do I support? United 'til I die. One love. But I may develop a soft-spot FCUM.Who knows?

As for the anti-Americanism thing that I think you're accusing me of, well, my ex-wife who I miss dearly is an American from Michigan, I almost emmigrated to the States but we split shortly before we were about to come over and I was willing to pledge allegiance to the flag when the time came around because she wanted any future children of ours to be American citizens rather than have dual-nationality. I've also offered to see if I can help out with tickets for a couple of guys on this forum who live, guess where? America. The Glazer's are going to make me even more Americanised, I won't be going to OT next season!!!! J/K.

So In conclusion I obviously hate America, Americans and everything to do with it. Actually, did I even mention the word America in my original post? I don't believe I did.

 

Rep of Manc, first let me say that that was a great post, one of the best I've read here on BigSoccer. You have seen some incredible things at Old Trafford, and personally I'm incredibly jealous. You really express a lot of the same concerns we have about Gl*zer, except that they affect you more directly. I think that for many like yourself, this is definitely the last straw in a long period of the club moving away from the fans and towards the suits who look down from the skyboxes. That's just the way football has gone over the past decade I suppose, and if there is any optimism in that, it should be that the shift is what allowed the club to stay competitive, though that may be small comfort if you can't afford to see them do it. In the US we have felt the same way for some time, with sky-high player salaries and stadium costs in the major sports pricing most families out of tickets (a trend which, ironically, could help MLS).

So many fans both here in America oppose this takeover because we fear it could really hurt the competitive level of the club. Not to sound insensitive, but for many of us, the ticket prices at Old Trafford just didn't affect us directly. This does, however. Looking at the possibility of bad times ahead considering not only the current economic state of the club but also the history of Gl*zer's dealings is what scares us so much. I think that your local fan perspective gives the argument more legs than its had before, and we appreciate the post.

 

Wait, why do you hate Americans. I just want to know. Im not Americans. and i Hate English people. So i just want to know if my reason is justified.

 

I don't know what to make of this but one of us is not recognising the other's sarcasm and I don't know who is the guilty party, but just in case.

I WAS BEING SARCASTIC!!!!!!!!!

Now to you Achtung, thanks for the response and don't worry about sounding insensitive when you say that many US-based reds were mostly worried about how the takeover would affect on-the-field success as after all, just like you said, ticket prices won't affect them.

It's not a competition to see who can be the biggest red, maybe I was guilty of that the other day when I was ranting about local fans. I suppose alot of my post today was an explanation as to why I feel the way I do. If some want to call me dumb or retarded then that's cool but I have my reasons and won't be changing my mind.

We all have our own reasons as to why we are either for or against the Glazers with each one being just as valid as the other no matter where that fan hails from. I just hope that most give a well-informed opinion and by that I don't mean that they have to agree with me.

 

Rep of Manc, great post. Wish I could hit you with some rep...
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Republic of Mancunia again.

 

Glazer's son said it's all cool.
Im down with that.

 

FFS

 

Much as I hate to say it, Bobby Charlton's going to come out looking like Neville Chamberlain on this one.

 

Comparing Glazer with Hitler is silly.

 

As long as Landon Donovan is down with that so am I...

 

I don't think I'm going to waste too much time on you....

and for that, you should be thankful.

 

I should be thankful? WHat would you do insult me? On a message board? Why in the world would I possibly care about that? Does it really bother you when someone on a messae board writes something that you don't agree with? Don't be silly. I thinkthe fact that Glazer is American and Jewish plays a big part in the protests. Tell me I'm wrong all you want but there is this belief that he is inherently evil and will cause the destruction of the club. There is no basis for that.

 

ANd let me say to all the British people on this board or anyone with family in London that my thoughts and prayers are with you and your families and countrymen after the horrible terrorist attacks that took place today. One day I hope we can put an end to this religious fanaticism that is so prevalent in the world today.