Give the Gift of Personal Protection this Christmas

Discussion in 'Bill Archer's Guestbook' started by Bill Archer, Nov 20, 2005.

  1. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So I'm debating:

    I want to give my wife and family the gift of blasting the crap out of anyone who thinks they're coming in my front door uninvited.

    I'm looking for a good pump action shotgun, like a Mossburg 500 series or a Remington Police model or Marine Magnum, or maybe a Winchester Camp Defender or Stainless Marine, or such, with a tactical handle, a short barrel (maybe 18 inches) and six to eight shell capacity. No aiming, no precision, just blast away and leave a puddle of sludge to hose down.

    Is a pump action preferable to an autoloader in thie application? 12 gauge vs. 20 gauge?

    Obviously the potential for inflicting maximum wound trauma on an intruder is greater with a shotgun than with a handgun. Also there is much less danger from missed shots going through walls and such.

    And a pump action, besides being more reliable, can be stored with the magazine loaded, the chamber empty, the safety on and the hammer down, from which condition it can quite quickly be brought to bear on a bad man.

    Anyone have any suggestions or thoughts? Thanks in advance and have a blessed Christmas.
     
  2. FeverNova1

    FeverNova1 New Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Plano
    Sorry Bill, don't know a lot about shotguns, but keep in mind that those can be cumbersome when swinging it around in a house. Doorways, furniture, etc can get in the way.

    Personally I'm a handgun man. My .357 mag is my protection. You just have to take a better aim.
     
  3. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well but that's just it: in a panic situation, I'd prefer she just blast away. And while she's a country girl with firearms experience, a .357 is hardly a female freindly weapon.

    In any case, I'm not talking about the double barrelled blunderbuss your father used to shoot ducks with, or even something fancy like a 12/20 over=and-under with a Monte Carlo stock. I'm talking about Witness Protection weapons, like the Remington 870:

    [​IMG]


    Even more compact is something like this Serbu Mossburg/Maverick clone:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are even Russian types available with tactical grips.

    You and I in a small room, in the dark, at 3 AM: you with your hand cannon, me with one of these and a five shot mag, and your mortality risk is really gonna skyrocket.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. FeverNova1

    FeverNova1 New Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Plano
    My other concern is with a house full of kids (like mine), I want to make sure that when I squeeze it off, it doesn’t blast the entire room. Otherwise, there is no doubt that those are much better protection weapons.
     
  6. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Absolutely a concern.

    But you fire that .357 or even a .38 and the bullet will go through every wall in the house. The more people in the house, the more risk of injury.

    With a shotgun, the pellets scatter in a pattern for sure, but they won't penetrate walls. If you have a kid sleeping in the next room, he's perfectly safe.
     
  7. Smiley321

    Smiley321 Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    Concord, Ca
    This is somewhat off-topic, but if you want to give an amusing gift to a fellow conservative, try this:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553066854/002-1183952-8313630?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance

    Ed Anger is the pseudonym of Ed Klontz, the late, great inspiration of the Weekly World News and creator of Bat Boy, among other gems.

    One of the essays in there is similar to this thread title - "This Christmas, give the gift of guns"

    Another recommends abolishing the electric chair - in favor of doing them once a year in electric bleachers!

    It's hilarious, pure gold.
     
  8. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    Okay, with regard to this thread and the thread about putting Christ back in Christmas, I'm really having a tough time squaring this circle.

    From Luke

    I don't want to make this an argument about gun control or a person's need/perceived need/desire to own a firearm. I'm just curious as to how a gun could possibly be considered an appropriate gift given in celebration of the birth of a man called the Prince of Peace. Shouldn't this wait for, like, your wife's birthday or something?

    I'm not trying to be a self-righteous dick here.
     
  9. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It does seem a little like The Santa Claus where they "have Jolly Old Saint Nick rolling down the street in a Panzer"

    Maybe I'll make it a "just because" present.

    Women love that.

    Either way, although I am by no means an expert on Holy Scripture, I did take a lot of History of Christianity and such, and I don't recall Our Lord expressing any opinions on how to deal with a couple PCP crazed thugs who break into your house to rape your women and steal your stuff.

    I prefer to believe in the Old estament God whose likely imprecation would be to smite them hip and thigh.
     
  10. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    I was kind of thinking of the pre-South Park "Jesus vs. Santa Claus" cartoon, in which Brian Boytano saves the day.
     
  11. FeverNova1

    FeverNova1 New Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Plano
    Really? An atheist using scripture to try to make me look hypocritical? If you say so.

    1. I am not advocating giving guns as gifts. I was merely responding to Bill’s post on shotguns as protection.

    2. Although I am secure with my martial arts training it sometimes doesn’t work when trying to stop a bullet. On the other hand, my wife has not had any martial arts training and therefore relies on the firearm.

    3. God has empowered many an army to defeat evil entities or to accomplish his will. If the evil entity gets past my front door, I pray that God will give me the power to defeat it and I have faith that he will. I would not use a firearm to go after an enemy or a neighbor. Only to protect my family in my house.

    4. Not all Christians are wimps.

    5. Jesus was perfect, I am not and never claimed to be.
     
  12. spoonman

    spoonman Member

    Sep 6, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    That's tough talk

    Why do you need a gun anyway?

    I'm Dutch and this whole conversation is completely insane from my point of view. Around here nobody's got a gun, that's fine by me.
     
  13. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    My response refers to the thread in general, not you specifically. I admit that I was pretty bewildered by the subject.

    As far as athiesm goes, I believe that, if everyone tried to be more Christlike, the world would be an immeasurably better place. I don't have to believe in miracles or a diety to think that.

    Bill's "anytime gift" idea is, of course, a good one, as women do love that stuff. As long as that "anytime gift" isn't, say, an X-Box, which most women most assuredly would not love. ;)

    Personally, I don't like guns. At all. In fact, I'm terrified of them and feel less safe around them, even when they're unloaded display models at a sporting goods store. Guns are one of two things that are absolutely forbidden in our home.

    But I also don't weep for burglars who are shot by homeowners.
     
  14. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Right.


    Now, many politicians, writers and artists are considered to be in such danger that they have permanent armed guards and are driven around in bomb-proof armoured cars. The Interior Ministry has set up a special unit assessing death threats from Islamic extremists and providing protection squads.



    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,17308340,00.html
     
  15. CUS

    CUS New Member

    Apr 20, 2000
    Just make sure to finish the job. The dead can't sue for damages.
     
  16. spoonman

    spoonman Member

    Sep 6, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    So let all be very scared of the criminals and change our livestyle.

    Ever killed anyone?
     
  17. FeverNova1

    FeverNova1 New Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Plano
    The world needs more Christians to be more Christlike.
     
  18. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, actually, in this country we seek out those who wish us ill and kill them before they kill us.

    In your country, you've had 30 years of convincing yourself of your moral superiority, which involves bowing and scraping and surrendering your nationhood in an effort to be inclusive, multicultural and non-judgemental.

    All it's gotten you is an unassimilated minority with a birthrate 5 times your own who are allowed to kill homosexuals and beat women, and who are increasingly aggressive towards the rest of the society.

    Good luck with them over the next 25 or 30 years, Mohammed.

    No, dammit, but I remain hopeful.
     
  19. spoonman

    spoonman Member

    Sep 6, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    :confused:

    That's got absolutely nothing to do with, are multicultural issues are reason to own firearms?

    Supposed we had the same rights to own guns the last few decade then USA, surely you're not going to tell me that those problems would never have been around these days.


    So you think it's ok to shoot a burglar to death?
     
  20. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I suppose if you're too tired to beat him to death with a shovel, then a gun is really your only alternative.
     
  21. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bill, I don't think many terrorists would have you high on their hit list. Don't think you have to worry about that.

    Now, I'm not an expert, but I would definitely go with some kind of compact shotgun if you want a gun for home defense. You don't need "stopping power" - in the extremely unlikely event you had to use one of these, it's unlikely the perp would be wearing kevlar. Plus, it's a lot less messy afterwards from a legal POV if he's not dead. Buckshot to the face will do more than enough to incapacitate the guy, plus you are unlikely to blow munitions thru the walls into god-knows-what. You don't have to worry about aiming - just point it in the general direction and pull.

    If you have - or are considering - any other weapons for your armory, consider standardizing on a particular size of munition. Preferably a common one. The gun won't do you any good if you can't find ammo for it.

    Anyways, the threat of a weapon should be enough to scare a perp off. You'll probably not even have to fire it even if your house were broken into with someone in it. Criminals want easy marks - unattended homes are best.

    (I need to go shooting with my father-in-law again. I bet if I started dropping hints he might get me a handgun for Christmas. I'd like a 1911...)
     
  22. CUS

    CUS New Member

    Apr 20, 2000
    Besides, if you have a daughter, make sure you have your guns out and are cleaning them the first time her date comes over to pick her up.
     
  23. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, they do say that the thing that stops a burglar in his tracks quicker than anything else is the rack-rack sound of a pump action shotgun as you chamber a shell.

    Good point on standardization. Sort of like NATO or the Warsaw Pact countries.

    As for the rest of it, it's really just peace of mind stuff. I'm an optimist, but I buy top of the line Insurance anyway, and top it all off with a two million dollar umbrella pollicy (sounds impressive but is actually dirt cheap). Not because I really think a Typhoon is going to carry my home to Kansas, because it's not, but because a prudent man covers the bases.
     
  24. Smiley321

    Smiley321 Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    Concord, Ca
    You could try feeding him the Dutch delicacy of french fries with mayonnaise and peanut butter.

    I think that they call it ootfrey oopsley

    did I call it a delicacy? I meant 'abomination'
     
  25. Eric B

    Eric B Member

    Feb 21, 2000
    the LBC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As opposed to what? Give him craddle to grave health care?

    EDIT: How about if the robber is German? Would it not violate your Dutch sensibilites then?
     

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