Give Hamas a chance! They will change!

Discussion in 'International News' started by odessit19, Apr 19, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    :confused: This is what happens when you let terrorists run a country...

    http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/06/front2453844.929861111.html

    GAZA CITY ≈ The Palestinian Authority has encouraged security officers to turn their wrath on Israel.

    Palestinian sources said Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh and Interior Minister Said Siyyam have met disgruntled PA officers and urged them to join the insurgency war against Israel. The meetings came amid threats against the PA by police and security officers who did not receive their salaries for March.
     
  2. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah! Democracy Sucks!
     
  3. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    In this case, YEAH! They can only understand 2 things - theocracy or dictatorship.
     
  4. ViscaBarca

    ViscaBarca Member

    Mar 26, 2004
    London
    and how exactly does withholding money for the PA help the whole situation?
     
  5. Dave Brull

    Dave Brull Member

    Mar 9, 2001
    Mayfield Hts, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And how does funding terrorism help, albeit as Matt continually points out, democratically elected terrorists.
     
  6. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    So that the money does not go to support a terrorist organization who will use it to create more attacks.
     
  7. ViscaBarca

    ViscaBarca Member

    Mar 26, 2004
    London
    i understand perfectly well how tricky that all is. but you are just assuming that everybody relying on that money is a terrorist, which of course is complete bullocks. the problem is that by withholding the money to these people you are encouraging support for the terrorists from people who normaly wouldn't support them. hamas got something like 50-60% of the vote, by screwing the rest you are just going to push that number up.
     
  8. Dave Brull

    Dave Brull Member

    Mar 9, 2001
    Mayfield Hts, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fine, give the money to Palestine in the form of medicine ,construction equipment, anything that would benefit the general population without giving Hamas a cent.

    I will now return to my pipedream already in progess.
     
  9. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    That's a dandy idea, but how are you going to monitor where that money is going. I am sick and tired of people asking Israel and the rest of the world to give Hamas a chance to change. It's bullshit, Hamas doesn't want peace, just look at this nonsense:

    Hamas names notorious terror operative, Jemal Abu Sema Dana, to high office with responsibility for Palestinian security services

    April 20, 2006, 11:16 PM (GMT+02:00)

    Palestinian interior minister Said Siam announced Thursday that he had selected as director-general of his ministry the founder of the Palestinian Resistance Committees, manager of the Palestinian arms smuggling tunnels and Middle East gunrunner.

    DEBKAfile adds: Sema Dana tops the list of wanted terrorists for engineering the murder of three American security contractors in the Gaza Strip three years ago, a long line terrorist attacks that claimed Israeli lives and more recently running the Qassam missile offensive
     
  10. Amerikaki

    Amerikaki Member

    Sep 19, 2005
    Queens
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to odessit19 again.


    Anybody who believes Hamas is anything but an ISLAMIC terrorist group must be purposely blinding themselves from the truth.

    1. Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel. Check
    2. Hamas calls for an Islamic state in place of Israel and the Palestinian territories who's law is based on a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam. check
    3. Hamas has praised the first suicide bombing since they took power. Check
    4. Hamas refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist. Check
    5. If you're reading #5 and have not yet understood that Hamas is an Islamic terrorist group no different then Al Qaeda or Hezbollah or Islamic Jihad then you should check yourself into a psychologists office immediately.
     
  11. CrewDust

    CrewDust Member

    May 6, 1999
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Palistine may go to civil war before Iraq will. By the numbers it looks like Hamas needs to pay out about $110 million and is only bringing in $30 million, they can not last long at that loss.
     
  12. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Hitler got elected...
     
  13. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And Hamas has not dissolved the parliament.
     
  14. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    But they do support violence against Israel and praise suicide bombings and encourage PA security forces attacking Israelis, but otherwise, great organization...
     
  15. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You make it sould like I support these guys.
     
  16. The Gribbler

    The Gribbler Member

    Jul 14, 1999
    Cedar Hill, Texas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    6. Hamas has also been the lifeline of many displaced Palestinians in refugee camps. check
     
  17. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Well, hell, let's give them billions of dollars then and maybe they will play nice :rolleyes:
     
  18. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    First Matt Burlew now this?
     
  19. Amerikaki

    Amerikaki Member

    Sep 19, 2005
    Queens

    They provide community services, they are far from a "lifeline". They're money goes towards terrorism.

    They do fund some great websites for children though...look at the little cartoons blowing themselves up and going to heaven...how nice....



    http://www.al-fateh.net/
     
  20. ViscaBarca

    ViscaBarca Member

    Mar 26, 2004
    London
    listen, i hate hamas as much as you do. i know they won't change, i never said they will, certainly not as long as the situation is as it is now. but one thing i can absolutely guarantee you, things will only get worst with the adapted tactic of just not talking to hamas. history has proven over and over again that chances for peace are much higher when you get over your pride and start talking to even your worst enemy, regardless of what they've done before. it's of course a very painful process, but the one with most chances of success. and frankly, i have a bit of a feeling that israel is only using the 'they don't recognize israel' line as an excuse to break up any negotiations. as far as i know the palestinians never ever really recognized israel, that didn't stop negotians before. and as for the violence, how exactly do you think the US or Israel, as an example, would react if someone would come along and tell them, listen, we'll talk to you, but only if you exclude any possibily of any military action. they'd just laugh at you! and hamas are now also an elected government, it's just that they are a bit more open about their goals, instead of camouflagig it as 'spreading democracy'.
     
  21. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Abbas and even Arafat both actually recognized Israel after Oslo accords and that was the stance of FATHA party, but not Hamas'. That' why this group is such a dangerous concept. There is a difference between military action and terrorist bombings of civilians. Also, Hamas still doesn't jus recognize Israel, but vows for her destrction. Why would you negotiate with such a group?

    Just look at today's news: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060421/ts_nm/mideast_militant_dc
    The 43-year-old leader of a faction that has carried out bomb and rocket attacks against Israel since a Palestinian uprising began in 2000 said his first order of business would be amalgamating militants in the security forces.
     
  22. ViscaBarca

    ViscaBarca Member

    Mar 26, 2004
    London
    yes, but as many israelis pointed out at that time, in Arafats case that was more a lip service. privately and among follow palestinians they didn't recognize israel. sure, that's still more than hamas does, but as i said, hamas are just more honest about their goals. and anyway, the key word in all that is 'after' the oslo agreement!
    well, we could spent the whole day arguing over whether the iraq war for example was any more justifyable then the bombing of civilians. i personaly think it's not, you obviously do. but that's beside the point. the point is that hamas are now the legaly elected government, and from their (!) point of view the bombing of isreali civilians is a military operation. so they will see being asked to stop that like any other country asking israel to stop using any military operations in gaza.
    as sad as it is, but there's no other choice if you really want peace. what i'd do is to try to get the support hamas get to a minimum. that would include supporting the general palestinian population in their daily survival (i.e. not withholding any money. hamas have always found more than enough money for terrorism, and they will still get it now. by withholding money you don't weaken hamas' military, but you do screw the rest of the population). it would also include starting negotiations with them, because when the general palestinian population sees an honest will on israels site to get a peacefull longterm solution which hamas just refuses on principle, they will kick hamas out in no time. in other words i'd pretty much ignore that fact that they are hamas.
     
  23. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    C'mon, what else must Israel do to show that, they have been doing that for the past 30 years and all they get back is more violence. Tell me what have Palestinians done for peace? i can tell you myrriad of things Israelis did and do and that has to do with other Arab nations as well.
     
  24. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Club:
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    http://www.indiadaily.com/breaking_news/67969.asp

    http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/2A9F0190-C31B-4428-A460-3C78FEFF0500.htm

    One of the conditions is absolutely unacceptable (the right of the return) and should be discarded and substituted with some very limited symbolic return + some financial refund, jerusalem should be negotiated (a split west and east is the way to go IMO), the others are perfectly understandable and generally fair (we're talking about the 20% of the land that was to be half partitioned, a loss of approx 30%, more than half of the arab state's land, is a punishment enough for the wars).

    The bottom line is, there is room for negotiations and Viscabarca is totally right, that's the way to go.
    To refuse any negotiations (till they recognize Israel or else) is simply foolish.

    p.s. While Hamas refused to condamn the recent terrorist attack they were not the perpetrators. it was islamic jihad.
     
  25. Beerking

    Beerking Member+

    Nov 14, 2000
    Humboldt County
    A great post. Hamas IS a terrorist organization, put into power by the palestinian people, the very people hamas are training to become suicide bombers. Anybody that sides with or supports hamas, are just as guilty as the terrorists themselves.
     

Share This Page