Giovanni “Gio” Reyna US National Team Discussion

And there is a dearth of U.S. talent in MLS right now.

 

Selling/losing the highest ceiling guys and a lull in talent will do that to you.

 

We have more American talent in the 16 to 22 age group than ever before, talent that at one time would have been plodding around plastic pitches in NCAA or plastic pitches in Scandinavia.

We don't have the top talent in that age group as we've been educated that our top talent should be playing for the top teams in Europe and MLS has happily cashed in on that.

 

Sure, but the B1 gives winter breaks in addition to the summer breaks.

 

There's plenty of good young talent in MLS. However, the league has also upgraded its rosters. Competition for places is higher than in earlier times.

 

More opportunities abroad and a higher standard in MLS have conspired to make it a tougher place for American players to get a lot of minutes. If you're really good, you get a chance to play abroad. Rosters have more quality so if you're not good, you don't play. With increasingly rare exceptions, you have to hit the sweet spot of being good enough for an MLS 11 yet not good enough to get a shot in Europe to be a regular in the league. That sweet spot is getting increasingly narrow these days..

With Gio, if he had been mostly healthy and still gotten as few minutes in Europe at this point as he has, I'd agree he'd be better off playing in MLS than not playing in Europe. But, with his constant injuries, he'd be not playing in MLS either so that's not really the choice. Until he remains healthy regularly, none of where he should play really matters. He needs to stay healthy for more than a handful of games and then we can see how things shake out.

 

That's not backed up by the statistics. In saying that it should be tough to get minutes, having to fight for a place makes them better players.

The percentage of minutes by American players has fallen the actual number of minutes has increased as the number of teams has expanded.

 

I think we had more when our current core was 16-22.

 

Ok having done that research I'll change my statement to the number of minutes by American players in MLS peaked in 2023.

Minutes by US players in MLS
2024 330,830*
2023 337,634
2022 316,659
2021 320,299
2020 211,646 (COVID)
2019 294,596
2018 294,290
2017 311,057
2016 309,434
2015 330,330
2014 334,781
2013 331,384
2012 317,481
2011 322,910
2010 251,810
2009 259,501
2008 246,482
2007 243,619
2006 260,949
2005 265,757
2004 220,397
2003 228,333
2002 200,616
2001 224,149
2000 274,432
1999 258,931
1998 252,888
1997 218,898
1996 212,563

 

And in 2023/24 the number of minutes played by Americans in the top 5 leagues was 36,599 (=407 90 minute games) an 80% increase over 2013/14.

 

All this talk about Americans minutes increasing or not is pretty irrelevant anymore. It all boils down to the particular player and the club situation he is facing.

How is he viewed by the club management?
Who is in front of him on the current depth chart?
How many matches is the club set to play? Domestic league, cups, UCL/Europa, etc.

I'd way rather have a player getting good number of minutes in a lesser league than riding the pine in a top Euro league. Yes I get the higher quality of training they get but that still isn't the same as match minutes.

 

Gio is three years too late in making a move.

I’m starting to think that he’s going to be a player who comes on later in life as he matures and is able to put the mental side together. The mental side is his issue. I could see him having a reemergence in the 28-30 year-old range as a midfielder.

 

I just have to believe this is corporate speak, or a desire and belief to have MLS become competitive with top 5 leagues, if not, they are both epic morons, it is beyond ridiculous and always has been. There are precise situations in which it makes sense to come back: you totally bombed out in Europe like Djordje, or you are in that middle ground of being unable to make anything remotely like you can make in MLS, in Europe, and even that situation is questionable (you should definitely challenge yourself, even at lower pay, if you can, simply to maximize your potential as an athlete, I know some will disagree, but they've already earned the "golden ticket," making the sacrifice of earning a little less to fulfill their dreams of playing at the higher levels is always justified in my mind, its why Euro Basketball players and Japanese baseball players come here after all and largely next to none of them, decide to stay at home, if they think they are good enough).

I refuse to get angry about it, in the end, because its such obvious, ridiculous bull----, its either the perspective of someone serving corporate mouth piece work, a la Lalas, or someone who is a moron, full stop. There isn't really much of any explanation. I don't think either of them are Moron's, so I think it's a mix of corporatism, and wanting it for MLS, rather than being interested in the players actual career. Great way to start off your podcast, several years after the pioneers, with the dumbest, most mind numbingly stupid of hot takes. And it's creating engagement, which is the point, I would imagine.

 

But not if your dream is to play in Europe. If your dream is to play in Europe, then yeah, go, you just have to figure out the "when" of it.

 

I was mostly thinking in terms of proportions because if you just add teams all the time, you are going to see overall increases. But good point that as the league grows, opportunities grow.

 

Well that's the business of a global ecosystem.

Those numbers show how ludicrous this convo is lol. Americans in Europe are producing roughly 10% of the total mins you see from Americans in MLS- but why don't more Americans consider MLS.....?

And in regards to this convo the American in Europe numbers should be edited. All the mins from guys like Musah, Robinson, Balo, Dest-pre injury should have an asterix as they didn't choose Europe over MLS. They're simply playing where they were raised and are close to their home- not choosing to leave American soil for opportunities across the pond.

 

Well, it seems like its pretty obvious why it would be so. We have the #1 league basically for all sports we even remotely care about except for Soccer. If you want to shoot for the top of Basketball, Pro Football, Baseball, Hockey, Golf etc, it's about America. The only sport I can think of that are different in this category are Soccer, and parochial British sports that were established in their empire like Rugby, and Cricket.

So I think part of this is corporate horse ----, and part of this is them wanting the US to have a league to rival Europe's, and knowing that's impossible if our best and brightest prospects all leave for Europe, but they need to understand that like the NHL, NBA, MLB, and the NFL, it takes time to turn a sport from a curiosity, into a powerhouse. It took the NFL nearly 40 years, it took Baseball a good what, 35-40 years, it took Basketball eons, it took Hockey until the 70s and the Miracle on Ice and Gretzky, with its origins in the what Great Depression era or thereabouts?

Basically they want MLS on that pedestal, or they're morons, or they're just indulging purely corporate speak, or I guess you could say they also might be doing engagement based Skip Bayless level stupidity. I mean, if you're going to come out with an outrageously stupid hot take, I guess do it immediately upon your debut? Otoh, it tells die hards like us to skip the podcast.

 

???? He had good transfer offers, the only abysmally idiotic one was the precise one that he took. Im trying to remember, but I think Sevilla and was it Lyon were in? But going to a relegation fodder ---- show, where their best player played his attacking role?!?! It was utterly asinine, and another reminder that Claudio should be hung up on any time he calls Gio with advice about anything ever.

 

I'm not sure we should dismiss the "morons" possibility just because we admired their careers as talented athletes... One, like Lalas post retirement both have fallen down the rungs to end up as "talking heads" after failing to perform at real soccer related jobs that require brains. Two, neither one went to college... did Landon Donovan even graduate from high school?

Occam's Razor would suggest "athlete is a moron" not "elaborate conspiracy theory to shill for MLS" as would the examples of like 90% of retired USMNT guys who now talk about soccer for a living like Wynalda.

Earnie Stewart, we actually have data points to suggest he's not a moron... Davies/Meola/Conrad/McBride not so much.

 

Dortmund will build up Gio's minutes so they can hopefully get a decent price. Adams went 90 today. That's what I want to see Gio eventually do with Dortmund.

 

As far as I know Donovan, Davies and Lalas aren't employed by, or paid by, MLS for their opinions. So talk of corporate speak makes no sense. If a random ex-soccer player's opinions make you angry you may need to reevaluate.

MLS is a top ten league by every metric with the exception that due to "parity" it lacks the financially dominant elite teams that exist in Latin America and second tier European leagues.

 

Sorry if it wasn't clear but I don't think I specifically called Lalas a moron? But he is a talking head opinion guy because he failed at real soccer jobs first. That was the comparison I was making, Lalas couldn't cut it as a GM, Donovan couldn't cut it as a coach. Lalas is worse than the usual dumb retired athlete because it's a schtick and he knows better.

 

Were the rest of them full pay offers?

The conversation about mls would be a lot better if people realized that it’s a good league now.