Gio wasn't starting last season when he returned healthy. Why are people surprised he isn't starting now? This is essentially the coach's choice. I'm sure Reyna will get into the rotation. There's no sign, however, that Terzic views him as a key piece to this puzzle. And no, that shouldn't affect whether we call him in or not. The hard part is that if you're not playing, then you're not building up that resume for inclusion. Tillman yesterday showed us something. Right now, based on club form, do you try to find a place in the starting XI for Tillman or Reyna?
I think whether he starts or not Gio should be on a minutes restriction. As much as we may want to see him, gotta play the long game
I don't know about there being a set minutes restriction. I can't start him unless he gets on the field for Dortmund. So that's a minutes restriction in itself. Guys like Tillman and de la Torre (and others) are more worthy of starts based on club play. Not to mention how well de la Torre started against Uzbekistan. I think Luca deserves a chance to prove himself against better competition based on that. I think Berhalter is going to have to go back to Reyna and tell him he's going to have a "limited role" in this next camp. Awkwaaaaaard.
Because of the WC it's sort of troublesome but I imagine Gio doesn't want to do anything that results in any type of injury.
I don't necessarily expect him to start all the time but if he's healthy and available and never gets any minutes like we're seeing now, there will come a time when moving on just makes sense. He's been sitting on the sideline as they have made multiple offensive subs a few times now. I do think BVB has stood by him through a ton of injuries though so to my old fashioned way of thinking Gio does owe them some consideration if he's wanted. They're doing well without him so the coach isn't going to feel any pressure to play him, but I'd think he would want to be somewhere that the coach does see him as an option and if the coach at BVB isn't interested, maybe looking elsewhere would make sense. Of course, if it is injury related, that's a different story. But I can't believe they just keep sitting him on the bench week after week if he's not healthy enough to actually play. From the outside, it looks like the coach doesn't think he brings what they need even as a sub, which is unusual considering how many goals he scored as a sub last season. I'm a big fan of Reyna's abilities so I want him involved with the US as much as possible, but I do agree Tillman is putting down a pretty strong marker as an option in midfield after being a part of a high scoring team performance last time out for the US and now his goal and assist in his first start at PSV. He may well make this a real competition sooner rather than later. He's got a ton of talent himself and if he puts it all together and Gio stagnates, life moves on. If we have the problem of multiple attacking options who can help our midfield, that's a nice problem to have.
BVB is a great place for Gio, and I don't think he should pull the trigger too quickly on moving. Likewise, from an outside perspective, I think it'd be good for him to fight for minutes. I'm not sure Gio's ever had to bear down and really improve and fight for a spot. That said, many coaches get stuck in rotations they feel are working even if they believe there's a better option. I think that's what happened to Gio a bit last year. Many have certain biases of what they want in players as well, and I don't mean personal stuff, I just mean how they want to play. He's too talented to stay if he's sitting for too long, but I think it needs to be a realistic look in the mirror. Is it just left out of an existing rotation? Concern over injuries? Or are there questions you aren't answering? Because if it is the last ... those'll be at the next stop as well. Gio is of a level and talent that he's always going to be a top option for us barring injury. I really like Tillman, but let's remember that Gio is younger than him, and has outperformed him at higher levels. Bob Morocco made a good point on the level of opponent in that PSV debut. Today will be a much better marker. I think Tillman might even get to a point where he fits better in some pretty high level teams because of size and style (i.e., he can play a complementary player very easily) ... but Gio is a material difference maker and even if he stagnates, he has a prominent place in the US team healthy. It would take full on regression ... and while that's not unlikely, I think that's 99% because of injury or if he heads down some substance abuse road. You just don't lose what he's got.
There is no divine right in soccer. If we are real about it, Gio is all hat and no cattle at this point. All fluff, no stuff. Tillman is earning it. Reyna can earn it too, he just has to, you know...play soccer.
I'm intrigued by the two of them playing the 8's together with a single destroyer (a healthy Adams?) against a lesser team in Copa or WC that needs to be broken down.
I have a seemingly much more class based understanding of the depth chart and how good various players are. Gio has done more and better than any non-Puli or Balo attacker we have. The level of performance he has established, that he should be expected to produce, is higher than anyone in his role and you could argue higher then anyone overall. Tillman running riot against an Eredivisie minnow and then holding his own against Sevilla does not see him jump over Gio in the long term, mostly class based depth chart. That said a player has to be fit. So, for a time bounded decision, like who starts today, that changes the calculation.
Reyna isn’t playing. He’s not better than the bench at Dortmund right now. Maybe that’s still good enough for the US, like it would have been in 1996, but how disappointing. Reyna’s a talent, but that’s no guarantee. I hope he’s gets a shot and takes it with Dortmund or somewhere. But that needs to happen before he displaces Malik or LDLT.
We are all viewing this player through the lens of unfulfilled potential. We have not seen any kind of successful high level of play established. We see flashes here and there as outliers among large swaths of absences and anonymous performances like his half against the Netherlands. That half against the Netherlands is the norm. It’s almost as though the fantastical imagination spurred on by his absences has evolved a sort of myth that is now superimposed on an unflattering image,
Moukoko is worth about 30M and glued to that bench as well. Neither Malik nor Luca has displaced Gio. Lest we forget just months ago in the NL he clearly displayed he's a top 5 player in our program when fit. It wasn't Malik or Luca which changed that. It was a broken fibula. People get a little too wrapped up at times and forget what some of these players face at big clubs and just because they aren't currently playing doesn't equate to a drop in quality. Never mind the player in question here is returning from fracturing his leg. It's also generally odd to completely ignore the difference in the quality of bench our guys are on. Malik and Pepi should both be in our A team. But there's a significant difference between PSV's bench and BVB's. Sorry but neither Malik nor Pepi would currently makes BVB's game day 18. Maybe someday. I like them but that's the reality. And it's why your barometer is broken if you're using that as the metric. You're also using too small a sample size. There's a reason in the spring Malik was playing in Scotland and Gio was scoring goals for BVB in the Bund title race. None of that means I have an issue starting Malik this coming window if it is deemed the preference to keep Gio in Germany to focus on his club/health. If Malik is deemed the #2 attacking mid behind Gio then by all means next man up.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that Reyna not be a part of our team. If Gio isn't regularly playing at Dortmund soon, then he needs to go somewhere else in January. We see a case of an elite USMNTer that was rooted to the bench on one team but getting back to excelling now that he's starting elsewhere. Pulisic. Let's not be too proud to cut the cord at Dortmund........................... Right now other players like Tillman and de la Torre are simply making better cases for themselves on the field. That does mean something. It can't mean nothing. And de la Torre, in particular, played very well in his last start for the USMNT. That means something too. And there have to be huge doubts about Reyna's match fitness. Do people realize how few 90-minute games Reyna has played for club and country over the past two years? You gotta play and get out there. By the way, I think the same with Scally. I have no idea what's going on with him. Time to move to another club if the Gladbach coach doesn't value him. His case is even more baffling than Reyna's. Cuz with Reyna, he just hasn't been able to stay healthy. We get it. Dortmund had to go out and find replacements for Reyna when he was out for an extended period. They weren't able to trust his availability. Reyna can't get back in the starting XI so easily while the team is playing well.
The last time Gio was in camp with us he started and played very well in competitive matches. We won. People making Edin Terzic the de facto USMNT coach are hard to understand.
Yeah, I didn't mean to say Gio shouldn't be an important part of the US team at all. I only meant that if he doesn't get time at Dortmund, he should eventually consider a change if it isn't health related because he's too good to be glued to the bench for the longer term. He's shown his quality for the US the vast majority of times he's been on the field, most recently with the standout performance of the Nations League. His one half of soccer I can recall where he wasn't a significant difference maker was playing in a new position against the best opponent the US faced in years when he played the 9 against Netherlands, and we had a lot of crap performers in that game with Gio being the least of our troubles. It is simple to believe this and also be happy to see good things out of Tillman. Having multiple strong performers competing for minutes is only a good thing. Not everything is a zero sum argument pitting one player against another.
This is probably mostly about whether Gio should start. I have a hard time starting someone that isn't playing unless there just aren't reasonable alternatives. Gio being glued to the bench means something. Doesn't mean he isn't talented or that he shouldn't get called in or get minutes, but it means something. It might only mean that Dortmund is absolutely loaded. It might, though, mean that despite his talent, Gio has holes in his game. These holes might be unique to how Dortmund wants to play or they might not be. They might also be holes that are more apparent to a club coach that sees him train everyday than they are to outside fans. Given Malik and LDLT are playing plenty and generally well, I personally would start one, either, of them over Gio right now. I would be thrilled to see Gio called in, look awesome in all phases of the game in whatever minutes he gets, and be ready to contribute in November in whatever role the team needs -- maybe even as a starter if the chips fall that way.
I think almost everybody will agree that Gio should almost always start when healthy for the USMNT. There are instances I could see us having him on the bench but that's more for games where we gotta weather the storm early. I think the bigger question is what is best for Gio's career. I think at this point it is more important for Gio to be at a place where he gets consistent game time and is allowed to work through any issues he may have in his game.
You only start guys you think can go 90 minutes. If Gio is not getting much club game time would he be fit enough to play 90 minutes? That would be my concern. Of course with a friendly it's not as important. But why start a guy you know you'll have to take off at half no matter what is going on in the game?
That's not true. I get that you didn't like the stunts Gio pulled, but even if you are going to harp on that forever (and why?) that doesn't mean he's not established a high level of play. Gio has 4,793 minutes for Dortmund and 17g and 14a, with many of those minutes at a young age. That's .56 npG+A/90. Pulisic, at the same club, played for 7,500 minutes and had 19g and 20a, good for .47 npG+A/90. (FWIW, their npxG+xA is similar.) That's a high level of play for the context we are discussing, which is the USMNT. In fact, I'm not sure there's been a higher level of play ever for a USMNT member in terms of goal production, at least not at the level of play that Reyna is at. Clint's EPL rates are lower, and Landon's Everton run is the same number (.56) for a much shorter number of minutes. Yes, he gets hurt. (I also don't understand why people bring this up constantly as if we don't know this. Yes, we know.) But holy crap, the dude is extremely good and productive. Just need to be healthy.
Oh, I didn't think you meant to jettison Gio. I just think that he's a very clear step ahead of most of our players and is in that bucket that even if he's not playing at club, I bet he's a better option for us on the field. Class over form, for me. Agree that at some point he's got to move on if he's not getting a real chance.
It's a friendly. Half the time there's like 9 subs. Why start him? I dunno ... maybe to put to rest a shitload of bad feelings and send a signal that he's going to be judged on his merits? If he earns the start -- that is, he's ready to play and is the best option -- he should start against Germany. It might be different in a competitive match, but it ain't.