Gianluca Busio at Venezia (R)

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Feb 10, 2017.

  1. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #101 adam tash, Jun 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2021
    Opara never really got a look same with melia...

    the point is that none of the Us-eligible promising players that popped up with SKC under vermes managed a move to a bigger club....over 12 years (!)

    opara, melia, besler, zusi, epb (bungled big time...even though he did get sold it wasnt into a good situation), etc....

    i dont see how anyone could argue this point with me.

    I am not arguing that there was malfeasance or ill intent...but there has certainly not been a culture of lets get these players in and sell them to a better club so they can develop better.

    clearly it was "SKC is the priority" not player development...which is probably why vermes is still the manager.

    I just hope busio's story is different. there have already been offers rejected.

    Dont want him to be another kellyn acosta or EPB etc....who have likely missed their window for playing at a top top club. its simple.
     
  2. felloveranddidanadu

    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Dec 12, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Frogs
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The "if" of if EPB, Zusi, etc would've gone to a bigger club, or a better league earlier and developed into a bigger, better player is all hypothetical IMO. EPB has been on lots of teams in lots of leagues and hasn't really shown he's ever going to be a difference maker. He's not better or worse than a bunch of similar B level guys. We're splitting hairs on lots of individual decisions on individual guys. Ultimately it's up to the player to develop to their fullest, be it in SKC or any place else.
    In Busio's case, I'm skeptical about his top level. I think his athleticism will be a hindrance. I think to play his spot and be a difference maker you have to be really, really good, better than if he were a winger or forward or defender. Central creative midfielders are the best technically, tactically, creatively. It's a big ask for anyone to be the best on their team in any one of those categories, much less all three. More often than not the guy who was a great CAM in a lesser league gets shuffled outside or further back to compensate for his shortcomings in a better league.

    I don't think SKC nor Vermes doesn't prepare their players for the next level, or to maximize themselves. I think almost always the players themselves can't get over the hump. There's no shame in that, 99.9% of guys don't.
     
  3. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Also revived Benny Feilhaber.
     
  4. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, if Opara had a more sturdy noggin, he'd have gotten caps, and he definitely developed under Vermes.

    The other thing to remember is that just based on population, KC is behind the 8 ball compared to almost every other market. It's fairly recent that he's been able to bring in kids from, to pick a city at random, Greensboro NC to his academy.

    Developing 3 or 4 year college players to have an impact at the national team level is a tall, tall order.
     
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  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You know, it's possible EPB just wasn't that good, that he was overrated.

    None of the other guys hit that "MLS dominant" level I associate as being a good candidate for a move to a better league. These guys were MLS all-stars, but not, IMO, MLS dominant. You maybe could make a case for Besler hitting that level.
     
  6. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There was interest in Besler after the World Cup (England & Germany from what I remember), the club just signed him (and Zusi) to new DP level contracts after the World Cup to keep them in KC.
     
  7. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A la the Godfather, I'll bet they were told that either their brains or their signatures would be on the contract. Cuz, you know, MLS and Vermes.
     
  8. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #108 adam tash, Jun 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2021
    so you guys think its just "luck" that clubs like fc dallas philly and rbny produce a lot of players that sign in europe for big clubs?

    And clubs like portland, skc, chicago fire etc dont?

    ok.

    you guys wanna split hairs on a bald guy (vermes)

    I am not hating on him overall as a manager....considering the constraints of MLS and the salary cap he has one a great job of sustained success. period.

    BUT

    no one can say he has been some kind of player development savant. He has not sent ANY US-eligible players to SUCCESS in europe. zero. so far. I'm not being controversial. just facts. in 12 years of coaching in MLS. a long time.

    Of the USMNT-caliber players he has managed ZERO have found significant success in europe. epb is still possible ....but not yet. could be luck but i dont think so.
     
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  9. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    His job is not to manage players to move them to Europe, his job is to succeed at Sporting KC. As technical director he has done that by keeping player like Matt Besler and Graham Zusi in KC by giving them DP contracts. He has moved players on to Europe who have shown an interest/desire to move abroad like Oriol Rosell and Kei Kamara, and even Roger Espinoza (though he left on a free). He has attempted to move players to Europe like EPB who have wanted to but have had moves fall through (Porto). His job is not to look out for the betterment of the US national team and move players to Europe, his job is to succeed and win with Sporting KC.
     
  10. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Part of that is integrating young domestics, developing them into assets on the field and on the market, then reinvesting money they get from big sales. This will in turn prompt more academy players to sign with skc, seeing it as a path to the highest levels eventually.

    There's little track record of skc doing this. But it's early in what is a potential new philosophy, w/ the likes of busio and lindsey integrated. We'll have to see now if he can get players to the next step or the end result is extension and probable stagnation. I'm optimistic skc have learned from past mistakes.
     
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  11. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    good luck getting youth players to sign with SKC academy with that rationale
     
  12. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Classic case of a straw man argument.
     
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  13. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    how so? all ive said is the vermes skc has put zero us-eligible players into an accelerated/better career arc than MLS since he has been in place in 2009. A LONG TIME. and that the absence of 1 single success story on his watch is telling.

    i think you guys mus be trolling me bc there is nothing about what I am saying that is even slightly arguable. it simply hasnt happened for any player under vermes' reign. not once.
     
  14. MuchoTakeItEasy

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think SKC has been better at recruiting young talent and at least laid the groundwork for integration (SPR and the amount of HGs on the roster), especially compared to teams like Portland. Their continued success has slowed the integration of Lindsey (Zusi) and Busio (Ilie). But that has started changing. Just look at their bench to see the influence their academy has on their roster. This should increase in years to come. But if you are narrowly looking at the amount of Americans that have been sold by SKC, sure, they are behind. Is the trajectory better? Yeah. I don't think Vermes is going to hold Busio back for example. We will find out soon enough!
     
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  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In every way.

    Look at what I quoted. It’s obvious.
     
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  16. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yes this is the Busio thread so I am "narrowly" looking at SKC/Vermes.

    i mean, I agree, to an extent I think there has been a shift. and I expect a nice outcome for Busio....

    But i've seen MLS douse a lot of bright lights in the past. Only recently have they mostly started to get it right. I really cant understand people trying to defend Vermes and SKC..when he has been in place for 12 years without 1 big time American sale/transfer to europe that actually benefitted the player properly....the trackrecord is clear.
     
  17. EXALIFTIN

    EXALIFTIN Member+

    Nov 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Wouldn’t mind Busio sticking around until the winter so we can see him at the gold cup, but preseason is pretty important as well, hmm.
     
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  18. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I'd say go for preseason, he needs to acclimate to Italian football so he's strong off the bat
     
  19. nycfc919

    nycfc919 Member+

    Aug 17, 2015
    $5M isn't nearly enough for SKC to let him go before the end of the season. If the offer was $8M+ (maybe even needs to be $10M+) maybe that gets it done. That $5M offer will be there after the MLS season too.
     
  20. m vann

    m vann Moderator
    Staff Member

    Colorado Rapids, Celtic FC, & Louisville City
    Sep 10, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope this happens! Sassuolo is such a fun team to watch. They kind of break that mold and assumption that Serie A teams are dull and defensive. Ongoing manger De Zebri had a huge hand in that. I hope new manager Alessio Dionisi can keep that going . He seems to be a young (41 years old) up-and-coming manager. I don’t know much about him but I know two freshly promoted sides - Venezia & Empoli - both had big rises under his management.
     
  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The narrow part is ignoring non-Americans.

    Look, unless there’s something different about Rosell and former Ohio State Buckeye Roger Espinoza as players, they count.
     
  22. EXALIFTIN

    EXALIFTIN Member+

    Nov 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Looks like that person meant 5 million euros and not 5M dollars
     
  23. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    5 million euros would be about 6 million dollars. If it includes 2-3 million more in realistic add-ones, plus a sell-on percentage, I’d say that’s pretty fair.
     
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  24. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    I'll be curious to see if he'll be allowed to stick around until the end of the season, a la Caden Clark, Brenden Aaronson, Alphonso Davies, etc.

    Also, the first mention of Sassuolo in this thread a couple weeks ago said that Sassuolo would be working in conjunction with Juventus on this deal. I also wonder if there was any merit to that.
     
  25. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe not a done deal:

     

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