Germany's Quest to Not Embarrass Itself, the WC26+NL24-25 Thread

Discussion in 'Germany: National Teams' started by Ger90, May 21, 2024.

  1. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    to be clear, I'm not even giving my opinion on things either. The ones who make the decisions do have these fixations.

    will say on topic of Beier,
    -his agent was Lewa's ex agent/manager, true story LOL.
    -like 2-3 years ago he claimed that in his opinion that Beier is much much much ahead of Lewa at the same age.

    -he wasn't wrong about that

    20-21 y/o (turned 21 in Oct) Beier in 1BL this season=16 goals
    21 y/o (turned 21 in Aug) Lewa in Polish 1st at that age=18 goals

    we all know that 1BL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Polish 1st by a HUGE AMOUNT.

    also Lewa's 1st ever 1BL season at 22 y/o scored 8 goals for BVB. While Beier scored 16 goals while younger and for a Hoffenheim aka not as big of a club as BVB.

    not saying Beier is next gen Lewa but its fun to look at these things. But yeah Beier needs to improve in some facets/area and he could become something very interesting.

    but for now, he doesn't need the added pressure, still young and better to let him dev in peace.
     
  2. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    on final note,
    Beier's dev is nowhere near over and can still improve a LOT. He's still very young and jumped to pro footy aka 1BL at 17 y/o too. I'm curious to see how he devs in next 2-3 years. A lot of CFs don't make strides until like 24-25 y/o. Here's hoping he devs into more complete package in that time.

    vs

    Undav who is just another late bloomer CF. Reality almost entire German 90s born CFs=Late Bloomers, LOL.

    Undav is a German 1BL-2BL reject (true story) rotted in 3rd Liga-RL for years and years. I presume that German clubs weren't keen on his size/height so never given any real chances. It was Belgium that gave him a real career and made him into sought after player where in his 1st season in 1st division he won top scorer. He even had to work his way into Belgian 1st through Belgian 2nd division.

    find it ironic that he gets paraded a lot in German footy as talented etc when none of the 1BL-2BL clubs gave two shits about him when he was in 3rd Liga.......now he's constantly linked with bigger clubs, LOL.
     
  3. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    LOL
     
  4. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
  5. BVBFNM

    BVBFNM Member+

    Apr 3, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    This is why Germany being so deferential to Spain in recent years irritates me so much.
     
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  6. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    FWIW My interest in digging in to all of this was trying to understand why Nagelsmann makes the decisions he does, instead of just claiming he is an clown. I don't particularly care who starts, as I trust JN and just want Germany to do well.

    I think in Nagelsmann's defence, lots of the hype around Füllkrug doesn't stand up. For a striker, he shoots only 2x per 90 which is low. His conversion is bang average. In this tourney, he scored one goal vs Scotland in a 3-0 game state, but then one game tying goal in a 0-1 gamestate.

    So he did well for a joker, but pointing at all the goals he didn't score vs Spain in 60 mins doesn't exactly make the case for him.

    To be clear, I am not criticising him. He has done well for germany and he's great fun. Long may it continue.

    I just think the criticism of Nagelsmann is not justified.
     
  8. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    kicker lists
    Beier, Burkardt, Fullkrug, Kleindienst in top 10 1BL CFs last season. Poached by Bosnia Demirovic is also there so 50% is at min German dev, which is pretty good #s.

    so yeah Kleindienst+Burkardt are the yet to be tried by Germany.
    Kleindienst is a player I brought up numerous times pre-tourney during season due to his good form and even last week as well. So yeah this confirms that he is one of best CFs in league.

    Flick almost called up Burkardt too super close. Once he returned from long term injury end end of 2023 he+Gruda are only reason that Mainz went from bottom of 1BL to survival. Went on scoring/assisting spree as well in 2024.
     
  9. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Werder's Njinmah: "DFB has me on their radar"
    Justin Njinmah is longing for a nomination for the German national team. In an interview with 'kicker', the 23-year-old talks about his decent past year at Werder Bremen and the injuries that forced him to sit out the last quarter of the season and may even have cost him a nomination for the European Championships: "So it was relatively clear to me that I had no chance.

    Nevertheless, I know that they have me on their radar. There hasn't been an exchange with anyone from the German staff yet, but of course that's a big goal of mine that I hope I can achieve." His role model is a teammate: "Marvin Ducksch has shown that performance can be rewarded and that sometimes one or two exceptionally good seasons are enough to get noticed."

    But the DFB is not the only option for Njinmah, who also has Nigerian citizenship. "I'm being watched there too, but I can't make a decision until I get an invitation. Then I'd have to weigh things up really carefully," said the winger.
    https://www.fussballtransfers.com/a4459844869433092737-werders-njinmah-dfb-hat-mich-auf-dem-schirm
     
  10. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Such a shame Waldschmidt had such a fall from grace.
     
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  11. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    BVB: Sahins deutliches Füllkrug-Machtwort
    Seit der Ankunft von Serhou Guirassy wird fleißig über Niclas Füllkrugs Zukunft spekuliert. Geht es nach Nuri Sahin, können die Gerüchte ad acta gelegt werden.


    Seems Sahin wants Fülle to stay, seems like he Plans a Double stryker Formation, where Fülle is the more robust player and Guirassy the more agile. Sounds like a Müller/Klose combo with a True 9 and a False 9
     
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  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    are you guys just calling everything a false 9 now?
     
  13. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    what do you call someone who plays in position who's only purpose is to score but can't score to save his life, has 0 presence, doesn't dominate box, doesn't impose himself on opposing Ds, has terrible movement etc.

    doesn't sound like a CF, doesn't function like a CF can't even do basic CF things etc.......sounds like a false 9, LOL.
     
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  14. BVBFNM

    BVBFNM Member+

    Apr 3, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Is The Jitty Slitter secretly Havertz's agent? He's been pretty much defending him this whole time.
     
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  15. Alex C

    Alex C Member+

    Oct 27, 2015
    Chatham
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Although Havertz had a good season overall at Arsenal, the talk from a lot of media/fans seems to be they need a genuine CF if they want to take the next step and win trophies. Ivan Toney has been linked and if he came would likely bench Kai. I mean it says a lot if most pundits feel that a mid EPL CF like Toney would probably bench Germany's preferred starter in that position. He just isn't a natural there and imo never will be.

    Really hoping we see Beier & Undav continue to improve and have strong seasons again, plus youngsters like Topp, Weiper and Moerstedt have breakout seasons in 1BL. All these are proper CF's that have good potential and should hopefully help make false 9 a total irrelevance in the not too distant future.
     
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  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #291 The Jitty Slitter, Jul 27, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2024
    Support strikers .existed long before the false 9

    germany used to play with two 9s routinely back in the 00s for example before single 9 formations took over.

    in Cris’s example Mueller clearly played as a support striker to Klose not as a false 9.

    there can’t be a false 9 if there is also a genuine 9 on the field. the whole point of the false 9 was leaving that zone unoccupied at times.
     
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  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    i am replying to Cris’s post about Guirassy playing as a false 9 together with Fullkrug. clearly he wouldn’t be a false 9

    you guys have started calling everything false 9
     
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  18. Alex C

    Alex C Member+

    Oct 27, 2015
    Chatham
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    False 9 by definition cannot really exist when someone plays alongside a real 9 imo.

    As has been said that role is then a support striker or even just an out and out twin striker formation, sometimes even the old fashioned big guy/little guy think the legendary pairing of Jancker & Neuville for example ;)

    It's interesting people talk of Sahin potentially using a front 2, for me that would actually suit either Moukoko or Adeyemi pretty well if they were alongside Füllkrug. Unfortunately it looks like neither will be used in that role (or even stay at the club) with Guirassy signed.

    I don't see it as a thing for the NT unless we decide to use a Leipzig style 4-2-2-2 system.
     
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  19. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #294 Cris 09, Jul 27, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2024
    Supporting striker/false nine...my point wasn't to focus on what we choose to call it, but;
    A. Fulle staying at BVB, not going to another club - which I think is a good thing for the NT.
    B. Fulle playing with supporting forward which may trigger Nagelsmann to play Havertz this way along Fullkrug, as opposed to having Kai as the sole starting striker/DF/false 9 and Fulle as a sub.
     
  20. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #fact
    Jancker>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kane
    Neuville>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Owen

    maybe if they play 2 upfront it will boost the chances for Brunner to also breakthrough. I'm pro 2 man CF if it opens the door for more German youth CFs to breakthrough XI and once they have that breakthrough that 1BL exp, they can play sole CF later on. That is better than playing sub for few seasons and emerging as 1st choice when X or Y leaves the clubs or needing your competition to get injured just to play.

    for all the complaining about CF the fact that majority of 1BL clubs play only 1 uptop makes it very hard to make oneself 1st choice.
     
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  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    not having a go

    it’s just easier to talk about football if we stick to generally accepted names for things.

    mueller has spent very little of his career at false 9 because he has almost always played with a genuine 9
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    on your last point Nagelsmann did already play that formation at times. i just don’t think we’ll see it from the start as Havertz is not a good enough midfielder on the ball.
     
  23. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Wde're good...I didn't take it that way.
    Sure, but if it shows success week in-week out, it may help.
     
  24. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
     
  25. Shwass5555

    Shwass5555 Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Nov 21, 2022
    2 things can be true at once.

    Does Havertz need to be more clinical? Yes

    Is he overall a better player for Naglesmann's system than Füllkrug? Also yes.

    You can argue that Füllkrug is a better finisher than Havertz, but he isn't a better fit for the system we play.

    Havertz can be part of the build up, while Füllkrug lacks the technical ability. It's not like he lit the world on fire last season for BVB.

    Don't get me wrong I really like Füllkrug, he is a great story and he deserves to be part of the national team, but he is no prime Klose or Gomez.....if anything he reminds me of Kevin Kuranyi.
     
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