Germans innocent? think again...........

Discussion in 'Argentina' started by ilovefotball, Jul 3, 2006.

  1. ilovefotball

    ilovefotball Member

    Feb 11, 2006
    europe
  2. in da soup

    in da soup New Member

    Nov 17, 2005
    england
    i don't think anybody thinks the germans are ever innocent.

    everybody around the world knows the germans started the trouble w their bad sportsmanship.

    they've seen the pictures of borowski, they've heard about the stadium announcer being sacked by fifa, they respect the argies for taking pride and not taking these taunts lying down like **************.

    the english press and brasilian press (both big rivals of argentina) are saying they wish their players had shown the same fight and pride in the shirt.

    we have gained even more respect, meanwhile everyone wants the germans out.

    forza italia.
     
  3. ButlerBob

    ButlerBob Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    Evanston, IL
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree that he hit the other player. But just before he does, you can see the other player slap him in the face with a open hand. You can see it in the video your link is for. That doesn't justify the hit, but both sides were at fault.
     
  4. bsas

    bsas Member

    May 27, 2004
    Switzerland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I think we should cool down a little and see how this story develops. I agree that you need 2 to Tango; it is difficult to imagine the players start a fight without any provocation. But nevertheless, it's a very sad thing, and does not project a very positive image, whatever you may say.

    Video clips can be instrumentalised. We could see that very well in the clash between Turkey and Switzerland, where an edited video only showed a kick by Swiss player, when the longer clip showed that a Turkish official had kicked first. It's important to have all the elements in hand to get the full picture.

    There must have been provocation from both sides going on before and after the penalties. But as these were won by the Germans, the reaction was more on Argentina's side.

    It's a shame, because Germany has been a class host, and they have made a point to show fair play. But to think the German players are all angels is very naive. They have been more aggressive on the field than Argentinians; Podolski was quite at the limit sometimes.
     
  5. in da soup

    in da soup New Member

    Nov 17, 2005
    england
    i have never seen a group of players take so much pride in the country they were representing.

    borowski had no idea what he was dealing with, he didn't know how proud a group of people can be, how strong can be the love some people feel for their country, he made the mistake of thinking everybody was like the germans, and that he could taunt them without retribution because he was in front of 70000 of his fellow countrymen, he thought this would scare our guys off, that he could take the piss, he thought we were all cowards like him, he had no idea who he was dealing with.

    the world is made up of many cultures, he didn't take this into account, as an arrogant german he thought everybody doffed their cap to the rich and powerful germans, he didn't understand that every culture has different rituals and different taboos, this was his arrogance, and says a lot about the culture from which he comes.

    typical first-world attitude: ignorant and arrrogant.

    we may not have money and we may not have power, but we'll have something the germans never have.

    sir manchester calls it typical latin hot-headedness :rolleyes:

    he doesn't know what the ******** he's talking about.
     
  6. Blitzwing

    Blitzwing New Member

    Jul 3, 2006
    Sydney
    There was fire in the Argentine player's eyes you don't get that emotional for nothing....
     
  7. cordobesenUS

    cordobesenUS New Member

    Nov 12, 2005
    Austin-TX




    Man, not only that, I don't know if you knew that the reason for Germany organizing the wold cup is that they brived some of the officials before the voting on where they would hold the WC. It was suppose to be Africa organizing the WC but everyone was surprised when the voting came up in favor of the Germans, that's why Blatter promised later on to give it to Africa and basically whipped his arse with the voting since he now knows that there is corruption in his camp.

    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/jul2000/cup-j12.shtml

    That's the link of an article about this. Regarding the italians, Man I cannot support a team that got to the semis on basically cheating their way through the entire tournament. The way they beat Australia, with a fabricated penalty is as disgusting as our Diego scoring goal with his hand, is illegit. De rossi, elbowing Brian Macbbride should have been sanctioned with an expulsion for the rest of the tournament, we all know that they are a bunch of cheats in every WC and not to mention their league ongoing scandal. This is why I'm rather supporting France to win this whole thing not only because they showed they are better than brazil but also because the only true player left in the planet is named Zinedine Zidane, the other "great players" like kaka, ronaldinho. etc... were simply "false idols" a bunch of money making robots with no intelligence whatsoever.
    Heres is another link to some othe WC scandals, read the one where Harald Schumacher says that all german players in the Bundesliga are drugaddicts hahaha I thought our Diego was the only one, surprise surprise.

    http://www.planetworldcup.com/A-ZWC/a-zwc.html
     
  8. mariealus

    mariealus New Member

    Feb 24, 2006
    It's quite obvious Cruz hit him first...
     
  9. in da soup

    in da soup New Member

    Nov 17, 2005
    england
    great post.

    however, if italy beat germany, all will be forgiven ;)

    breaking news: FRINGS HAS BEEN SUSPENDED FOR THE SEMI-FINAL!!!!!!

    HAPPY DAYS!!!!!:D :) :p :cool:
     
  10. mariealus

    mariealus New Member

    Feb 24, 2006
    may i ask where any english press actually considered what we did as being a result of our pride and not as a result of our calentura? from what i've read peoplesay we should be ashamed
    (although personally i could give a rats ass what other people think. im not ashamed, im not proud, i think it was a stupid thing to do but im not surprised they reacted the way they did...).
     
  11. in da soup

    in da soup New Member

    Nov 17, 2005
    england
    i agree with this statement, mariealus.

    from what i've seen these last days in the english press, peker is highly respected for fair play and the way his team played, altho they say he lost his nerve against germany, hence his defensive substitutions.

    they say the provocation from the germans was unacceptable, and admire the argentine pride in the shirt, as compared w the pathetic showing by the english, until they were down to 10 men and suddenly performed heroically.

    of course, no-one is condoning the argies' behaviour, but they understand it.

    FRINGS IS OUT!!!!!!!!

    HAPPY DAYS!!!!!!!!
     
  12. bsas

    bsas Member

    May 27, 2004
    Switzerland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Your reaction is a bit pathetic.
     
  13. mariealus

    mariealus New Member

    Feb 24, 2006
    thanks but I was actually wanting a link to see who said what about it...since like I've said, I've seen it as being described as "shameful" etc

    Interestingly, I didn't see Ole take a strong position on it. They probably feel the same way I do.
     
  14. meininki

    meininki Member

    Nov 30, 2005
    What provocation exactly are you talking about?
    From what I've read and heard so far, the Argentinian players were shouting abuse at the Germans during the penalties. As a result, Borowski gestured to them to be quiet after he shot his penalty, which is what lead Cufre to run up to Per Mertesacker (who he mistook for Borowski) and kick him first in the thigh and then in the groin (!).
    I'd also like to point out that (most) people in Germany haven't made a big deal out of this, because they understood it happened in the heat of the moment.

    Yes, Frings slapped (you call that a punch??) Cruz, but you can also clearly see in the video that Cruz slapped Frings first. So why isn't he punished too?
     
  15. ilovefotball

    ilovefotball Member

    Feb 11, 2006
    europe
    What our players did was a shameful thing to do. i hope this sort of things never happens again. we played so beautiful and we were getting so much praises for our game and fair play and suddenly our team did the thing which overshadowed all our peformance.

    but the reason i posted video above is to prove wrong to those people who thinks we are only guilty on the situation. i was also unhappy of Fifa to clear all germans. i was unhappy to hear people getting into this forum and making statements that we are the only responsible party. after seeing this video, i hope not to see those sorts of comments, blaming us for everything happened there.

    atlast i hope our players learn to cool themselves even though someone is provocating them. the best way to punish those a******s is to defeat them. i hope this is the last time i see our players in any fight.
     
  16. cigar_city

    cigar_city Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Likely where I should NOT be...
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    Pepole who follow American football and live in the US will understand this analogy.

    Argentine futbol "hinchas" are basically like the fans of Philadelphia here in the States, particularly like the fans of the Eagles.

    I'm in Tampa, i hate the Eagles, i can't stand the Eagles fans, the worst in the country. In turn, Eagle fans and Philly fans in general, respond as follows:

    We don't care what you think of us. We really don't. You don't like us, you're not with us, you want to destroy us in the press - we couldn't care less. We are Eagles fans, and the rest of you suck.

    When it comes to the Albicelste, we really don't care what you think of the team or of its followers.

    Cheaters? So what, we won the WC, that star is still on the jersey. Simeone's sorry simulation? See ya Becks, vamos, vamos a ganar.

    Bad winners? Tough, you should have won the game (England '98) if you don't like the way the players and fans celebrated.

    Bad losers? England players want to swap jerseys after beating Argentina with their own contrived penalty IN '02? We don't want to swap anything, we should've beaten you, we are disgraced, you ARE NOT getting a trophy. Bad sports? Probably right, but fu(k off, BTW.

    Frings can't play the next game? Sorry for him. Blame the argie cheaters?

    Go ahead. We could care less.

    Vamos, Vamos Argentina

    DALE NEWELL'S
     
  17. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    agreed, it was an awful reactio by Frings, but watching the video, Cruz slapped Frings first.
     
  18. in da soup

    in da soup New Member

    Nov 17, 2005
    england
    bsas, you're being a bit pathetic, i know there's a lot of swiss germans and blatter is swiss but get a bit of perspective.

    every argentina fan assumed our guys would get hit by bans and fifa would let the germans off, because they have far more influence over fifa and are playing at home.

    the germans didn't deserve to be let off, and fifa realised this, hence cause for celebration.

    it would have been awful if we were the only ones to be punished, fifa would have been sending the message: the argies are entirely to blame.

    we deserve to be punished, but so do the germans, as without their provocation there would have been no controversy.

    i am delighted fifa banned frings and sacked the stadium announcer (who broke fifa rules with his behaviour), and i hope it contributes to germany losing, i make no apology for this.

    it appears you wanted the germans to go unpunished, i disagree w u, fair enough.
     
  19. bsas

    bsas Member

    May 27, 2004
    Switzerland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    IDS, it's not the first time you are over-reacting, and I'm afraid you will make a fool of yourself once again. If you check my posts, I have always been denouncing the corruption of Blatter and FIFA. To say that because I'm in Switzerland I stand for Blatter is just outrageous!!! Also I'm in Swiss French part, and Swiss-Germans are the people who hate German team the most, probably out of jealousy...

    Because of your self-proclaimed crusade, we are getting a bad reputation of sore-losers and people who accept aggression. I have already explained my opinion in various threads, and it seems you have done in many many more.

    I am just trying to keep an open and fair mind. This fight was disgraceful, and though I agree there has been provocation, it's not a reason to behave like that. I understand this can happen, but I don't want to go on hating Germans for that, like you are doing.

    Now, I don't want to start a whole argument with you, because I really have no time to lose over that. Last time vip said you were saying "pavadas", we heard you complaining for weeks together. I just say you are over-reacting again. We lost, get over it. Some players misbehaved: there has been plenty of video footage on the incident, and the culprits will be punished.
     
  20. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    For how long do we need to keep talking about the Germans ? Lets just move on. It is getting very annoying. This little incident does not deserve this kind of attention. It was a small harmless fight and I enjoyed it while it lasted. Why do I keep hearing words like "disgraceful" or "shameful" ? Are you people some kind of high society ************** who never had to defend their pride and always run away from fight ? :rolleyes:

    Real men don't just swallow their pride and act as if nothing happened. They respond immediatly with their fists. :cool:
     
  21. vanGobbel redded

    vanGobbel redded Red Card

    Jun 17, 2006
    Amsterdam
    eh..they just got eliminated in the WorldCup :rolleyes:
     
  22. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    As I said on another thread, I think this is too much ado about nothing. The guys were pissed, a couple of fists were thrown, nobody got hurt. I've been involved in more serious fights, playing in scrub leagues with nothing at stake.
     
  23. leoriver

    leoriver New Member

    Nov 29, 2003
    en el monu
    + 1
     
  24. botch

    botch New Member

    Jun 23, 2006
    Barca/Melbourne/B.A
    Must be a small sect of argo's. Maybe american argo's, because most argentinians I know are not like you.

    This was an emotion thing, but to excuse things like Simeone doing the stuff he did, unacceptable, because then a win is empty, what's the point of playing if you're going to cheat, there is no happiness in a win that isn't earnt. It will always feel empty. Maybe the reason why you like crap like American Football.
     
  25. botch

    botch New Member

    Jun 23, 2006
    Barca/Melbourne/B.A
    What did the announcer do?
     

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