Taylor Twellman's agent, Brian Eylert, says in the linked article below that Bundesliga clubs consider "MLS on the level of the second division in Germany." Does that sound accurate to anyone (and I mean you, Olaf) who lives in Germany - both in terms of whether Bundesliga clubs regard MLS at that level and, if so, whether you think that perception of MLS is accurate? This piece also has a number of other interesting observations on MLS and the transfer market: www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/296/sports/Twellman_gets_advice_stay+.shtml
Watching the Budesliga, I tend to believe that the top MLS clubs (say 4-5) could survive relegation. The Galaxy would easily be mid-table. The bottom clubs off MLS would fight in the second division to gain relegation right back up.
Dawgpound, I think that is a very accurate picture of MLS, it is bottom of the 1st division Euro leauges and top of the 2nd divisions, outside of Italy and Spain. Italy is different as all 1st and 2nd division teams split the television revenue equally, Spain because the level of play is higher than anywhere else in Europe right now.
I wouldn't go that far. Second division is a fair evaluation. The top team may survive a relegation battle, but mid-table? Thats a stretch.
Yes, he's right and I got to say that it's moved up as a few years ago they said it's D3 level. Personally I got my problems to evaluate it as I don't have the opportunity to watch MLS. All I can do is comparisons with the help of the level of US players in Germany and the MLS rosters. On the one hand I don't appreciate such comparisons as all leagues got different styles. 2. Bundesliga is completely different to Bundesliga and you cannot make it that easy to say that a top D2 team necessarily survives in D1 (ask Hannover that broke one D2 record after the other and now is the worst of the promoted teams in D1). If you insist on a comparison I'd say that I can't exclude that a team like LA Galaxy survives in D1, but I also rather see MLS on D2 level. Two reasons for that: when taking a look at the MLS rosters I hardly find foreigners who'd make a Bundesliga roster - and foreigners are the ones determining the quality of a league. And an US example: Gregg Berhalter was member of the US World Cup team and probably no MLS club would refuse to have him - in Cottbus, the worst Bundesliga club, he didn't have a single good game so far and last weekend was even moved to the bench. Who is this Bryan Eylert? Is he German? Never heard of him. I'm a bit confused as Cherundolo's agent is Michael Becker, at least he was working on the last contract. I'm very sure with that as I remember that Becker was a bit mad at Cherundolo for hesitating with signing a contract he worked out according to Cherundolo's wishes. Can also be that Eylert is just working for Becker as I'm quite sure that he isn't owning an own firm if he's German. Twellman's situation isn't as bad as the article says. If I were him I wouldn't extend the contract with MLS without getting a realistic buyout option like 1M. If MLS doesn't raise his current salary they are the ones taking the risk that a club comes and pays Twellman out despite of the contract.
Re: Re: German perceptions of MLS I can't think of a team that would want him. Realistically, Berhalter shuts down big target forwards. MLS doesn't really play that way. Speed, movement and endurance is the bread and butter of MLS in my opinion. It does seem that Germany does give US players a better looking than most European countries so they can say whatever they want as far as division perceptions.
Re: Re: Re: German perceptions of MLS I think the relevance of how highly Bundesliga clubs regard MLS depends on whether more players move directly to Bundesliga rosters. Americans are all over the lower divisions in Germany, but getting on a first division roster is a different matter. A higher perception of MLS may mean that more Americans get shots directly at Bundesliga rosters, rather than poke around the lower divisions. As an aside, I don't think that watching the first division in any given country tells much about the lower divisions in that country. Clubs typically attempt to upgrade their rosters when they go up and often have to dump salary when they go down. I watch both Bundesliga games on FSW every weekend (and grew up watching the old Soccer Made in Germany show ), but I have no idea what quality level you'd see at a 2.Bundesliga match. Also, I'm a bit surprised at how well people think MLS clubs would perform in the Bundesliga. Don't get me wrong - I'm an MLS fan since 96 and think it's a very watchable, rapidly improving league. But the technical quality of players in the Bundesliga, even among the weaker clubs, still seems to me to be much higher than in MLS. It's not preposterous to think that the Galaxy could avoid relegation, but it would be a massive struggle.
Well having seen my fair share of MLS games over the last 7 years and having seen a few 2nd Division games this year (Alemannia my love, wir sind wieder da) I think that i'm in a decent position to speak about this. Having said that, I honestly think that the best MLS teams are lower Bundesliga to high 2nd division quality. I think if you stuck, say the Rapids, in there for a couple seasons that they would bounce up and down between the two leagues (before anyone makes a Valderamma crack, Alemannia has a player that could possibly run less, and adds a lot less to the offense, thank you Herr Ivanovic). I really think that the biggest difference between a lower Bundesliga club and a good MLS club is the depth of quality, but 11 v 11 it could go either way.
Just curious, really... How can i get contact numbers for these agents? I've never heard of them. I googled the names but i didn't find any contact numbers...perhaps i didn't look in the right place...?
I think most MLS clubs would beat relegation, but the comparisons are still a stretch. The problem is that MLS clubs can play well enough to pull it off, but I question whether or not they can do it for a full season. I question whether or not MLS clubs could be consistent enough for a full season. Right now MLS teams can play a great game one week and then play a stinker the next without it really hurting. I don't think that would fly overseas. Comparison of players is still a stretch as well. In MLS our foreignors are either hopefuls or has-beens. In Germany our yanks aren't much different. While I wouldn't call Sanneh and Berhalter has beens, I don't think either of them would be the star of an MLS team. We actually have some background on Sanneh, who was a role player for DC. The rest of the yanks are young guys who are promising, but their promise is what makes them attractive potential stars to MLS more than what they've actually accomplished. As for the impressions of play: The last Bundes game I watched was Energie Cottbus v. Wolfsburg (I think) and the level of play was not above MLS. Both teams may be able to raise their games, but on that day I would have put any MLS team up against either of them.
That is an excellent point and one which makes comparisons between the 2 quite hard. In reality however, how many Galaxy players would make a BL 1 roster, let alone get any playing time. I'm not sure there are any.
Excuse me? Have you watched the Galaxy lately? Carlos Ruiz Danny Califf Tyrone Marshall Simon Elliott Pete Vagenas all coule start in the Bundesliga for a LOT of clubs.
Congrats on finally getting the win, but don't let it get to your head. They are all nice players, but beyond the bottom 4 or 5 teams in the BL these guys wouldn't even get a sniff at the match day 18.
I wouldn't have thought it was possible. I'd pay to see this guy in action. Or pay to see this guy's inaction. Or whatever you'd say of a soccer player who has a work-rate lower than that of a league bowler.
MLS vs. BL While I agree with you that most of MLS stars wouldn't start for a top to mid table BL team, the reason they wouldn't start wouldn't have anything to do with their talent. It's because they're AMERICAN. I can't believe I'm saying this(as a Burn fan), but LA's 2002 squad is probably good enough to survive in any league in the world.
Re: Re: German perceptions of MLS FWIW, Bryan Eylert was/is Lothar Matthaus' agent also. I think he was instrumental in setting up the MetroStars exhibition match with Bayern Munich last year.
Comparison I used to watch a ton of Bundesliga, (Eintracht Frankfurt, Kaiserslautern) 2 Bundesliga ( FSV Mainz05 , Darmstadt98, Mannheim) and the occasional D3 games (SV Wehen, SV Weisbaden) and IMHO I think all MLS teams would compete in the 2 Bundesliga, none would survive the Bundesliga. LA Galaxy would be the Cottbus this year or the ST.Pauli of last year.... And trust me there is nothing I would like better to see than Yanks kicking the schnitzel out of a TOP bundesliga team but realistically we ain't quite there YET.
Re: Re: Re: German perceptions of MLS I checked that as I knew that Matthäus' agent from almost junior level on was Norbert Pflippen. Brian Eylert was Matthäus' agent in the USA, so I assume that he's working on US territory only and co-operating with some agents in overseas. That way it might be that he's the agent for Sanneh and Cherundolo if they got to rule something in the USA, but on German soil he's definitely not the agent for anyone of them. But that's not thought for degrading him - in contrast, it's very good to co-operate with others who are familiar with the soccer scene in this country (and someone should tell it to Richard Motzkin ). Brihodge: Ivanovic was top striker of a D7 club in Bielefeld. He scored an average of 1.7 goals per game over two or three seasons and then got an amateur contract with Arminia though he was not the youngest anymore. He had a few games in their pro team and somehow Aachen must have thought that he's good just because he's on their roster and signed him. With this background I'm rather positive surprised about his performances in Aachen.
Whatever happened to the Club Championship that LA was supposed to play in last year? Is that event gone forever? It could certainly answer some questions concerning the strength of various leagues around the world.
I'd have loved to see it, but i don't think it would have answered much, as it would have friendly atmosphere for the top teams, and a shot to beat the world for the lesser knowns. Love to see Galaxy v. Boca, however. For one game, a tourney or even a champions league format, I think a lot of MLS teams might show well enough against the bund _ but so do 2 bund teams. Without a complete restructuring (reserve squads, youth teams, etc. _ the work of years) none would survive a single season in the top level. For a bad example, look at the august collapse of the Wizards, who when forced to crowd their schedule completely fell apart, and were soon not losing games but getting toasted (the only time during the year they performed so poorly, as opposed to their usual mediocrity). Also, the bund is a bit low right now. Try this in the top leagues, spain, england, italy, and it would be a massive struggle to stay up. I mean, can the galaxy beat Sunderland? Position by position, I think the answer is no, scary as that is.
The real question, of course, is where would the Valencia's play, in the Macintosh or Fuji league? The rosters are different size, the seasons are different lengths, the foreign content is different, the pay rates are different, the non-leauge (i.e. cup play, uefa etc.) are different. It's just a very, uh, different.
The two key points are the squad depth and consistency. Losing 2/3 starters for a MLS team makes a huge difference. MLS teams can challenge a team in a single-game, but wouldn't survive a season. Consistent play is telling of the professionalism of MLS. Teams can play a terriffic game and then come up with a huge stinker the next. The quality of play in the worst game of a Germany/Europe game is much higher than the worst of a MLS game. But like a previous poster said, there are way too many differences in each others leagues to really make a fair judgement. Maybe a competitive game between the two national sides featuring players only from their respective domestic leagues could tell. However the proportions of domestic/abroad club players on their full national teams would most likely be significantly different.
Re: Re: Re: Re: German perceptions of MLS I'm impressed by this, for two reasons, 1. that someone would give someone on a d7 team a chance (there's hope yet), and 2. That he's actually seen as one of the main scoring threats at Aachen despite this, it's a good story. Good enough that I'm going to give him a chance to redeem himself tommorow at Tivoli against Luebeck. It just seemed that every game i've been at he's just stood still the entire time and didn't even make an effort if the ball didn't hit him. But after this story I'll give the guy a second chance.