German Fraulein National Team 2020 & beyond

I'm watching Germany's u19's face Spain, and I think it's the first time I've seen any coach actively decide to play with 10 players Vs Spain's junior teams lol..

10 mins left to play, Zero real attempts on goal, thinking you can be successful without a mid-field Vs a possession loving Spain...

 

2-0 now, and in a game they only needed a draw, Germany's coach manages to help his team offer zero resistance to limping out of the u19 Euro's during the group stage...

I'll never understand this need to force 4-4-2 on the whole wnt program, and looking at it reduce Germany's u19's to an complete non factor Vs the clear 4-3-3 of Spain, again I fear how bad this will effect Germany's u20's during their WC...

EDIT: LOL... Germany's first attempt on goal comes after 95 mins. Surely Spain's easiest game, no competition, no resistance, Germany decided to play with a system that might as well have been 9 outfield players.

 

Your new coach still joined a wnt with an already clearly defined system, while Germany's well known veteran coach continues to jump between various formations and tactics...

Lohmann's problem seems to be that she's an Oberdorf level talent who's always injured, with nobody really knowing if she's capable of playing consecutive games during a tournament. But it's still obvious why she selected, no?

Popp was Germany's best offensive player this season, spending most of her time on the field being relatively healthy too. Making her inclusion in the Olympic 18 obvious, regardless of her current uncertain health status, no?

Just leaving Hegering's selection the one obvious issue here, as Hrubesch has known all season she's not going to be healthy over consecutive games, seeing him select two more CB's he doesn't even have complete faith in using.

It means I'd agree with you in counting 14 players Hrubesch needing to select if he has any hopes of accomplishing anything positive during this tournament
Bühl ----------------------- Schüller -------------------- Brand
---------- Minge (CM) -------------------- Lohmann (CAM) -----------
Linder --------------------- Senß (DM) -------------------- Gwinn
-------- Doorsoun/Solano ------------------------ Hendrich ---------
Subs: Popp, Endemann, Hegering, Nüsken

But if we're being realistic, it might be less than that if you consider Germany needing to change their style of play to make Doorsoun/Solano effective. With there also being some residual doubt on the effectiveness of Nüsken too....

 

You probably need to focus on your teams opening match a little more... Retaining 80% possession, but not being able to break down Costa Rica's low block defence, isn't exactly what you want to see headed into a tournament opening match Vs a more physically robust Zambia.

And honestly, never typically holding any major interest in seeing a USwnt win anything. this time I'll be paying close attention to your match; as for me an even bigger nightmare than seeing the USwnt winning, will be watching Zambia's pink elephant potentially make a complete mockery of the competitive nature within modern elite female football...

The prospect of seeing 9/10 Zambian defenders all sat disciplined behind the ball, throwing long passes forward for Banda to beat 2 or 3 players, using unique individual raw speed and power to score goals that help Zambia qualify for the knock out rounds at the expense of one the games top15 ranked wnt's....

 

The Usa should get a pretty easy win. I just don`t see Germany winning any game, except maybe Australia. I think Usa and Zambia will duke it out for first place.At least, Popp might be the flag bearer and that will be a nice send-off to her national team career.

 

Spain vs Germany U19 Highlights

 

Since the Olympics are just ahead and we will not have much to smile about, a liitle reminder how Germany finally won gold and completed the trophy set.
That goal of Däbritz vs Australia will always be my favorite.

 

LOL... you posted highlights, as if there's anything to see from Germany in this game...; as what I saw, thanks to the coach refusing to even attempt to compete with Spain in mid-field, Germany would contribute absolutely nothing to this match.

And it's honestly slightly embarrassing knowing they'd manage ZERO attempts until the 95 min, allowing Spain close to 70% possession. Probably producing the single worst performance of any German u19 Vs Spain...

I mean... who starts a 4-4-2 with ONE real CM vs Spain....Your basically asking your team to compete for 90 mins with one less player on the field lol.

 

It's funny you bring this up... because if we're being honest about 2016's Gold medal winning team, we know it was significantly worse than the current 2024.. right...

Defence 2016...
Kemme -- Krahn ----- Bartusiak -- Maier
--------------------- Schult ----------------------
Defence 2024...
Linder -- Solano --- Hendrich --- Gwinn
--------------------- Frohms --------------------
Krahn significantly better than Doorsoun/Solano, but Hendrich a massive upgrade over Bartusiak. Even when you compare FB's.... I think Linder and Gwinn will prove to be stronger players over 2016's first choice options, no..?

Mid-field 2016...
Däbritz --- Marozsan --- Behringer --- Leupolz
Mid-field 2024...
Bühl --- Senß ------- Minge --- Brand
I'd always argue Däbritz the true stand out individual from 2016's team, and I doubt her run of wnt form compares to the current day effectiveness of Bühl down the left.

While 2024's new potential double 6 pairing might lack genuine clout, I still believe this will be a more balanced CM combination than what I remember seeing with Marozsan - Behringer in 2016.

Forwards 2016...
Popp ---- Mittag
Forwards 2024...
Schüller ---- Lohmann
2016's team using a 4-4-2, and 2024 likely using a 4-2-3-1, even if Popp -- Mittag easily the better players on paper, remembering how these two actually worked together has me believe Schüller ---- Lohmann playing centrally a far stronger attacking prospect for 2024's team.

Hrubesch holding a better winning record headed into the Olympics, a better selection of players, and potentially a stronger team. Yet there's less faith he can accomplish anything like a Bronze medal with his team...

 

Losing Däbritz, Oberdorf, and choosing to remove Magull, if teams shut down Bühl, Germany might have a potential creativity/goal issue with this team at the Olympics...

Freigang the Olympic squads current 4th highest scorer.., with Popp either competing for the same position as Schüller, or a DM role she's not expected to provide or score goals.

It creates a scenario we might need to see a new name step up as creative/goal threat, within a side legit goal threats like Endemann still a sub, and Brand remains a facilitator of chances, not a major scorer.

Maybe we see one of Nüsken, Lohmann, or Minge, showcasing an offensive element of their game only witnessed for short bursts during their club careers. Nüsken 13 goals 4 assists 2023/24. Lohmann 15 goals 6 assists 2020/21. Minge 11 goals 2022/23.

They've all demonstrated a potential to provide a legit goal threat for this Olympic team, but looking at how they'd all do this, I'd still view Lohmann as the one who posses the best overall skill set to step up as the next key creative goal threat for the wnt right now.

 

I am sorry if it sounded unbecoming. But frankly that post seemed over the line to me even for an hard-core fan, so i tried to challenge it.

 

LOL... all 3 of these wnt's are "superpowers" now, OK... And of course women's football has moved forward... it always does; but please stop holding Germany to your asinine USwnt standards.

Winning Euro's, WWC's, and Olympic medals, has always seen Germany directly involved pushing the game forward, while directly benefiting from the constant changes and wider developments of women's football; and nothings changed now.

But no... comparing Germany's wnt to the USwnt makes zero sense, knowing Germany's latest Olympics at the end of a horrible decade with them having zero continuity in leadership, while the USwnt just ending a golden era for their senior team.

Meaning if we're talking about wnt's losing a competitive edge, come back and talk about what this looks really like for the USwnt when they have suffer USsoccer collapse, leading to a decade of subpar leadership so underwhelming, interim coaches becomes a new normality lol.

Norway, China, Italy, all considered powers at one point in time, going through difficult times while still producing a quality of player the same or better than what came before them during the golden age of their programs.

Whatever happens in France, Germany's senior wnt part of a much deeper talent pool than what was ever available in 2016, within a general climate of improved club level professionalism, and are about to receive their first legit full time coach in what... 2 decades...

Having me believe you might want to revisit this topic once Germany's Wuck-Meinert era begins. As I have a strong feeling Germany's senior wnt about to get back to being a whole lot more consistent and competitive...

 

Why does this post read like potential famous last words lol... But I really hope your correct on this, as the last thing I want to see is the nature of female competition become the major topic of the Olympics.

Because honestly... Houston, we have a legit problem on our hands if every team in this group has to face a 10 player physically robust low block Zambia, using their pink elephant as their counter attacking outlet..

And don't think this is pure fantasy either....as your own USwnt were just unable to break down a far less physically robust Costa Rica defence, happy allowing you a crazy 80% possession...

LOL...Doorsoun/Germany's defence using a sweeper system wasn't to blame for their defeat Vs Iceland (Iceland only creating 2 more shots than the 3-1 defeat two Germany a few months prior). Any basic breakdown of this match, showing you a bad mid-field and 3 stupid individual errors allowing Iceland to get easy looks at Germany's goal.

And I don't know how much football you generally watch, but if you feel the sweeper system is "outdated", your clearly not paying attention to the best teams in this sport right now, who ALL deploy at least one player who's ability to progress the ball from deep, makes them a modern day interpretation of a libero...

Beyond women's football, we've just seen Spain, Germany, Argentina, Colombia, ALL deploy a variation of the libero to make their systems work. With club football home to loads of uniquely gifted players repeating this same old school tactical innovation in new modern ways.

Germany's wnt just has a frustrating problem of Neid/Jones/MVT era football being at the forefront of what this team has done for years now. Forcing Hegering to step up and solve a tactical issue coaches were trying to force CM's like Oberdorf, Lattwein, Nüsken, to endure...

LOL... no they didn't... They just stopped trying to recycle possession from deep, defaulting to making much longer clearances towards the forwards, completely bypassing any Austrian attempts to high press.

And doing this we got to witness an unknown quality of Berger, which is her ability to execute precise long passes at a significantly better effectiveness than Frohms, either CB, or CM's. Resulting in her producing multiple key passes to start moves that generated attempts on Austria's goal.

Making the notion this a result of both CB's being in a more balanced partnership amusing to hear now, when evidence shows the good work of Berger allowed Minge/Oberdorf to focus on producing defensive tackles that extinguished various potential threats only few day earlier enabled Iceland to score two of their 3 goals lol.

 

Sorry to jump into this... but Kumagai IS factually one of the female games greatest defenders/DM's. Not only has her success at club and international levels validated this, her analytical match data would also back this up too; with her tackling, interceptions, short/long passing, all being among the very best seen in this sport.

So whatever weird bias you've held over a 33yo Kumagai's hugely impressive career, I don't understand how you've managed to be so dumb to actively leverage the same negativity onto a 22yo Oberdorf who's trajectory would appear to be moving directly towards this same table of the games elite talents...

Seriously... I've never seen someone so stubborn to accept a very common understanding about the concepts of what makes a player elite lol. Professional peers, coaches, and fans, all typically agreeing that Kumagai one of the games great players, it's crazy seeing you decide to fight the same losing battle on the platform Oberdorf's young career somehow overrated...

 

LOL... look who's in the middle of bottom row...

I think we just found out who's the new Germany #1 GK for their latest major tournament... Oh....and Adidas appear to have completely given up with the design quality their soccer related jersey's lol

 

Ohne Oberdorf mit Popp im Mittelfeld. Was haltet ihr von unserer Wunsch-Aufstellung für Olympia? 🇩🇪🤔 pic.twitter.com/nHf81ElLqG

— Fußball der Frauen 90min.de (@FF_90min) July 23, 2024

"Dream 11".... I know Lohmann's Straus-ball era has damaged people's opinions of her, but seriously, this Freigang agenda NEEDS to end ASAP!

 

Oberdorf is factually ONE of the worlds best players... I've never said that she stands on her own as the worlds best (yet). This just YOUR personal inability to understand how individuals will be assessed for their elite qualities in this sport.

In your mind if someone has a single good performance their instantly world class..., but then refuse to acknowledge the consistent elite performances of players over long periods of time; allowing you to think it somehow OK to slander a legit Japanese legend like Kumaagai...

The past is 100% relevant to the present. How else do you think we understand the measurement for elite status talent...?

An elite player starting in their teens, establishing themselves as one of the worlds elite in their early 20's, maintaining this status over the course of their career, has you claiming fans weird for acknowledging how this elevates someone to a world class status...

Presumably your reasoning here to try and help create an excuse to remain ignorant on the success of players from wnt's you don't support or like. 100% knowing this refusal to accept the past still doesn't make any valid sense to more reasonable minds, who will fully comprehend why a 22yo Oberdorf already regarded as a legit world class talent.

Again... I know this is hard for you to grasp, but already viewed as an elite youth prospect, at age 19 Oberdorf was voted the best young player at her first Euro's, selected to UEFA's team of the tournament, having established herself a key part of a strong Wolfsburg, where she's been to multiple UWCL finals now, also regularly standing out on the international stage competing against various names who've established themselves as mature world class talents.

So can we stop these horse sh*t strawman arguments when talking about world class players, knowing none of what your saying here works if it's attached to Marta's career, which is filled with a whole lot of 2nd places, major disappointments, yet validation being viewed by many as the sports female GOAT...

 

Yes... yes I do. And your point here...? Watching the DFB destroy itself from within has been incredibly annoying to a lot of fans of German football, who've previously only known the DFB as an elite football institution built on the pursuit of success.

Meaning I see all the negative factors of the modern DFB slowly seeping into the gradual destruction of it's once powerful wnt program, and yeah... I'm going to be vocal in my growing frustrations with the nations best talent being routinely mismanaged.

From the u17's showcasing low quality football within a 4-4-2, becoming the first German wnt failing to qualify for a WC finals (they didn't even reach the Euro's finals...).The u19's looking like a confusing mess within a 4-4-2, recently exiting their Euro's after a shocking low quality tactical performance performance Vs Spain.

Now the senior team coaches stupidly attempt to impose the same 4-4-2 on to it's players, resulting in numerous underwhelming 1st half's that consistently require substitutions at HT, to try and rectify bad starts by adjusting the system closer to a 4-3-3.

But I'm supposed to pretend this is 100% perfectly fine/acceptable, just because you personally enjoy seeing Germany's women playing like the USwnt, as they struggle to compete against opponents like Wales, or Poland...

 

If I went to the USwnt thread and said I think the US women should play like Japan, I'm going to get some form of push back, no?

If I went into the USwnt thread, and diminished the qualities or status of the USwnt's best players, I'm going to get push back, no?

If I go to the USwnt thread, and claim the USwnt's worst performances in fact the best route for future success, I do so expecting push back, no?

You come here regularly highlighting Germany's obvious strengths as their supposed weakness, actively trying to dismiss the nations best players, and do this comparing everything you see with US soccer.

Yeah... but your different, and therefore immune to push back, right...

This sounds as dumb as pre 2007 WWC USwnt coach Greg Ryan saying women's football didn't posses the level of talent to pass the ball out of the back lol.. and we all remember how that worked for him...

Germany's Euro's team had the most effective counter-press in all of women's football. No team (club or wnt) has come close to the same effectiveness as this one particular team, using this one particular system. And with a little more luck with injury/covid, I'm convinced they would have won the tournament too.

But yes... since then we've seen Germany go through a stupidly flawed process of moving away from trying to improve on this style of play, to find themselves stuck between multiple confusing systems and styles, that's left the current team struggling for a coherent structure for defensive stability.

So I 100% understand why Hrubech's Germany have tried to try and establish a new way of playing, but the idea this means reverting to a 4-4-2, using kick and chase, seems to be directly from the school of 2016 Neid, and absolutely misses the strength of Germany's current talent pool.

To make this simple, if Germany deploy a balanced mid-field in front of their defence, things tend to work really well. They don't do this, and you instantly witness Germany struggle. Suggesting this about more than CB's sitting deeper.

 

@hotjam2 Evidence exits to provide analysis on you opinions....

1:27 A basic Doorsoun passing error in her own defensive 3rd of the field, leads to the Austrian forward wining the ball, getting lucky to beat a covering Hendrich, before finding a way to shoot past Frohms.

2:41 Austrian free kick header inside the penalty box, where Hendrich loses the forward, with Oberdorf failing to cover for Hendrich's initial error.

How is any of this due to Germany's defenders being too high up field...?


4:54 you see Germany with 6 players inside their penalty box, conceding
a goal to one of Iceland's 3 forwards inside the penalty box.

Here Solano overloaded with 2 people to cover at the back post, as Senß fails to get back into a position to help protect the CB's.

Where's the high defensive line allowing this to happen...?


1:02 Linder loses the ball close to the halfway line, Pajor dribbles beyond Solano, crosses to a completely unmarked player in the middle who finishes nicely.

Take a look where Nüsken and Oberdorf are during this early goal for Poland. Germany with 5 players in position to stop Poland, compared to Poland's 3 involved in the attack.

Where's the high line at fault for this...?


1:17 Germany lose the ball in their own half from a Polish throw in, seeing a last effort Doorsoun tackle pass the ball directly into the path of the goal scorer to finish from close range.

Germany having 5 defenders inside their own penalty box, compared to Poland's 4. So where's the high line to blame for this...?


3:24 GK error from a corner allows Iceland to score.

7:02 Hendrich get's presured deep inside her own half, see's her poor pass to Forhms intercepted by Iceland's forward who plays it back to KLV who places an accurate long distance shot into the bottom corner.

11:24 Doorsoun can't make a basic pass to recycle possession, Iceland's forward intercepts for a clear no pressure finnish to make it 3-0.

In a game Germany's mid-field was terrible, none of the goals they'd concede would come from the defensive line being too high.

So explain where the CB's being too far from their own goal has anything to do with Germany conceding goal through Euro qualification, as I don't see it...