German Fraulein National Team 2020 & beyond

Discussion in 'Germany Mädels: NT and Frauen-Bundesliga' started by hotjam2, Feb 26, 2020.

  1. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Ivana Fuso is also on the list but no Lohmann, Bühl or Brand:confused:..
     
  2. Bauser

    Bauser Member+

    Dec 23, 2000
    Norway
    Club:
    Fredrikstad FK
    All these ranking lists on ESPN, Guardian etc. are made just to cater for readers in the Anglosphere.
     
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  3. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #278 hotjam2, Jun 3, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2021
    Except half of them aren’t Anglo(white), in feels more lIke WOKE culture with some of the picks
     
  4. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    ...:unsure: Kleinherne's played RB for Frankfurt too, looking just as uncomfortable back then, as she's did for most of the match versus England at Wembley.

    I didn't see anything of Germany's Algarve Cup, so I can't speak on Kleinherne's performances there... but the idea MVT continues to waste the few clear CB options she has, so CM's and FW's continue to be converted into defenders... unacceptable.

    MVT selected 27 PLAYERS for these two friendly internationals, and can't do any better than identify FIVE recognized defenders in the entire nation...o_O Again... this is unacceptable, knowing strong options like Rall, Wolter, Elsig, Wedemeyer, Wirtz, Stegemann, Küver exist.
     
  5. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Bühl - Schüller - Huth would be perfect for that scenario though... they just require the correct service. This being a continued issue for German wnt coaches, who never seem to be asking defenders, or their CM's, to even attempt early long forward passes to attackers anymore.

    However... I 100% agree with your assessment that Brand a legit prospect for the now, not the future; showcasing impressive technique, and end product, to match her direct speed. But she's not a FW, and would simply struggle without regular service at the international level.

    Bühl - Schüller - Huth all want to run behind their defensive markers, with all of them exceling in 1v1 duels. But how can they be at their most effective, if their team never seeks to provide them with early/direct passes..?
     
  6. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    :unsure:... I said.. "maybe Spain's low end product, high tactical/technical skill set, removes Netherland's US-lite approach from Europe's summit; finally providing the USwnt with an actual European test again. But the idea female players will ever move faster than the ball, is still a pretty dumb narrative..."

    Meaning, I actually prefer Spain's chances of comprehensively besting a USwnt one day; over that of what I feel a highly inferior version of the USwnt style, deployed by a current European elite (the Netherland's).

    And it's honestly dumb to believe a wnt truly capable of passing the ball swiftly with high accuracy, is somehow inferior to a team with players simply running fast lol. Your never going to see any team run/move faster than the ball... NEVER.

    Best witnessed with peak German, Brazil, Japan, using highly entertaining anti USwnt styles, as audiences also witnessed some of the biggest tactical flaws ever seen from the USwnt. It makes me still believe there's a lot more to be seen from coaches better implementing diverse styles into women's football.
     
  7. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    It's got nothing to do with being "WOKE" lol... seeing nonsense like Fuso representing South American women's football on that list, should tell you everything you need to know.

    Not a single Japanese/Korean name from the most dominant female football nations in Asian football lol. And the lack of African, or South American representation is rather amusing too... I'm honestly shocked Lena Oberdorf is on the list lol.

    Anyway... given their attack qualities, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bühl, and Brand, both end up being proclaimed the best young German international's at the Euro's...:cautious:
     
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  8. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    both Buhl & Schuller look like they might of lost a step or two since joining BM, so hoping that Brand & Nuskins stay where they are for now, they play like their much more hungrier/or let’s just say what’s the point of putting all your best players on just one or two teams, when you have practically no competition the rest of the year?(other that those two clubs pay the most salaries, lol)
    I might of been wrong with Spain being early Euro favorites just based on this week alone; not content to of won the CL, Barca just went on an buying spree that so far netted them Rolfo & Engen from Wolfsburg & now after the one Japanese hotshot who’s gotten nothing but rave reviews playing for Milan. So how are all three going to get decent playing time & against what equal opposition? We’ve all ready seen Marozsan performance significantly suffer since joining Lyon which now plays with such complacency, yet the rest of the rich seem to follow suit, but with its buying power pretty much reduces the effectiveness of the rest of their respective leagues.

    Germany will always be a great place for up & coming to learn soccer skills from these various clubs; Essen, Freiburg, Potsdam, Hoffenheim. But unfortunately moving to a top flight club might hamper their career. At least MVT seems to understand this a little & that’s why she catches them while their young & hungry. I mean it’s interesting how she gave Marozsan break this time as well as Buhl the previous time, or at least hoping it’s an learning lesson from the Dutch loss; that Germany is not going to win next year’s Euros unless she can find even stronger players than like the two beforehand mentioned
    Macario(this list #1) is Brazilian and was an prodigy over there, but at age 12, her family decided to move her to the US as they’ve felt she had an better future over here. Finally this year she’s permitted to play USWNT & she’s really come through whether NT or Lyon(I’ve already raised grave concerns that her play will fall aka Marozsan, lol).
    The sorta of wacky website, Soccer Donna, gave Oberdorf an massive value unit of something like $250K, but considering that Wolfsburg doesn’t come close to paying its players that much money, she might be just ripe to get picked up by a more spending club. but I don’t think she’s at all ready(especially to foreign countries like England where they play an different type of soccer). It don’t help that MVT keeps trying to make her an CB(she didn’t look good at all defending Miedema)
    Well their good countries in youth soccer, but when you look that at the last WC; 7 out of the 8 quarter finalists were European countries(and this didn’t include either Spain or an re-emerging Denmark) you really got to say that’s the corner where woso is headed. Even those other contingents best players know this that’s why they lived either to Europe or the states.
    You might like the sort of synchronized passing style of let’s say Japan & as you’ve mentioned; an accurate passing team should have it over an athletic but blind passing one, but unfortunately woso, it’s been in theory only. Even in its highest levels, playing from the back(to keep possession, proves to be many an woso teams Achilles heel. Not just the US but the rest of the world plays the high pressure game that causes more goals to be scored on defensive errors than an beautifully set up one. It might be a cheap way of doings things, but it’s reality than the more wishful thinking of the beautiful game(we wouldn’t even have so many injuries if it were). Even Wolfsburg started all these faster, more athletic strikers(Blomqvist, Staevik) way upfront, not for their goal scoring abilities, but to create havoc among opposing defenders(do just saying, this is not just merely USA doing it

    but there’s got to be balance as well with obvious more creative players to equal the athletic ones as well(this is where the Asians might not be able to compete anymore ala their overall underwhelming 2019 WC performances)
     
  9. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    LOL... aged 20, this season saw Bühl not only maintain a starting role at her new club, but solidify herself as a senior team regular, while on course to match her seasons previous best (scoring 8, and assisting 8) within what appears to be a title winning effort for Bayern...:unsure:

    And for all of the issues Bayern's various new attacking signings have had within their new coaches style of play, it's also Schüller on 15 goals, who's about to finish the clubs top scorer; this only one goal short of her previous seasons best of 16 goals...:whistling:

    So... something is telling me your using more of your unreasonable (I don't like possession styles) bias here, as Dallmann, Magull, Gwinn, haven't come close to matching, or eclipsing, their previous best while at their past clubs.

    Again, in order... #1 Schüller, #2 Lohmann, #3 Bühl, these are statistically Bayern's 3 best offensive players in the league this season lol; and I would imagine these, and other names, will begin to further improve their attacking stats the longer their new coach builds more of his own vision for his team.
     
  10. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Do not praise the wnt coaches for not correctly grooming their elite junior internationals, or not rewarding their club form...:thumbsdown: Their continued lack of foresight has created scenarios where MVT now thinks it's genuinely competent to select a 27 player squad, and see only 5 of those be recognized defensive options.

    From Germany starting matches without a true mid-field, to forcing young creative stars into unnatural defensive roles, as more obvious inferior players are randomly allowed numerous starts in their preferred offensive roles; the wnt often appears broken.

    Not only does it ignore the success of key elite junior players within successful junior teams, but also ignores the wider league, and it's wider efforts in successfully developing potential wnt talent within it's improved club structures.

    Praising a coach who believes Knaak, Krumbiegel, Starke, have futures in attacking positions on this team; while Rall is missing, with Brand, Lattwein, Oberdorf, being pushed into adverse defensive roles; nonsense.
     
  11. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Yet you see AFC Australia have more than one nomination on that list lol; please explain how that makes any sense, if the whole of the AFC so irrelevant...? The list is just pure ignorance.

    And the idea female players at international level can't execute the skills necessary to evade a press is NONSENSE. It's nonsense that simply feeds into a flawed logic of past styles being too difficult/time consuming to implement right now, during a time period the international scene clearly no longer a landscape of everyone being a part of pseudo club sides.

    This shouldn't be a theory created on recent past a few former elite wnt's suffering failure either, as we've already seen proof it's 100% factually possible to create a platform of credible/lasting international success, using styles of football that in no way seek to be reminiscent of the USwnt.

    Exciting, attractive, but difficult to establish, when this finally happens again, the USwnt, and the teams who've decided to play like them, will feel absolutely helpless as they find themselves on the wrong side of crowd pleasing demoralizing defeats.

    Improving club level professionalism, with the huge tactical flaws of elite wnt football being so wide for exploitation, I don't see how it doesn't eventually happen.
     
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  12. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Yeah... and look how that worked for out them lol. Wolfsburg's new look so called havoc creating attack, is about to produce the clubs lowest goal scoring season in YEARS..:coffee:; this as the ponderous Bayern you dislike so much, will end up producing their best attacking performance in years.

    The wnt playing more like the USwnt has resulted in decreased fan interest, and poor results. So I think it's healthy to see Germany's top clubs attempting to establish something different, and potentially better than Wolfsburg.
     
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  13. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #288 hotjam2, Jun 6, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2021
    The two Australians play for clubs in Europe, as well as the two Brazilian born & the one Haitian. According to the list, only 3 play outside of Europe(3 Americans)
    It’s not over until later today, Wolfsburg was a bit more injury laden this season than BM, didn’t feel like paying the prize of keeping the likes of Harder & Hansen(I mean though never disclosed, Harder’s salary was estimated at only $125-50K ai WOB).
    I wouldn’t call WOB style anything close resembling the US, WOB usually gambles with its overlapping FB’s way out of position to help defensive. Watching some of our current NWSL games/highlights, there’s not one time I’ve seen so far this season where an helpless Doursoon is caught defending by herself since there’s no weak side defense to the rescue.

    BM looks great against weaker opposition(after all, last season, they & WOB bought up the almost all the rest of the league’s best talent, lol) but came apart vs Chelsea in their 2nd game. Really badly played by their coach, he needed to take on an more defensive stands, he didn’t even bother starting Schuller and Laudehr(who at least slowed down the Chelsea’s rapid attack by pro fouls around the midfield),
    Yeah, the German players have sort of an nice. passing chic going on, but motive how Bereensteyn don’t bother with it as seems to have an unlimited license to dribble up in long solo runs & take shots from anywhere she pleases. Look for BM to become more foreign based players by next season(or at based on who they’ve signed up so far
     
  14. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    but here you’re taking 3 teams that the US has a solid win/loss record against, so whatever styles they used, it’s like almost their made to order for the US

    Scandinavian countries with their more rugged/athletic players are usually the ones that give our over-the-hill gang the most problems!

    and isn’t ironic that both Bayern & Wolfsburg have had a fair share of those ‘rugged’ Scandinavians?
    Here we both agree, MVT does not coordinate well with the clubs, switching the 18 year old Brand to FB when she isn’t getting that type of training at Hoffenheim does feels like the crime of the century! But Germany is caught up in an catch-22 situation where a lot of these clubs aren’t full time: just reading last year an article on Turid Knaak where she complained that she had to race from her day job to Essen’s practice over 70 kilometers away, tells you that unless the Bundesliga picks up the slack & starts paying more comfortable wages & have full time training sessions, Germany will start becoming less viable as time goes on. In this regard you can’t really complain about the coaching or certain soccer styles for an country’s downfall(or at least on woso)
     
  15. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    And... what's your point here. Doesn't what you say just further highlight how ignorant this list truly is...?

    We're supposed to pretend the other AFC nations not called Australia aren't actually producing some of the women's games best talents; when it's actually the nations not called Australia within the AFC producing excellent individual performances at the games major junior WWC tournaments...:cautious:

    The AFC selections on that strange list appear unbelievably ignorant, with the South American selections looking completely fraudulent lol.
     
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  16. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Didn't Bayern lose 4 of their FW's for most of the season too... making any argument Wolfsburg had a worse amount of luck this season, a is pretty poor excuse...?

    And the fact your finally seeing Wolfsburg attempt to adapt new tactics into their rigid 4-4-2 attacking play (overlapping FB's), comes from them spending years being an extremely basic team that's never been able to best Lyon with their direct style of play.

    Honestly... theories Wolfsburg's attack becoming massively weaker after losing both Harder & Hansen at the same time, is seriously overstated; as what I see is a team who's never replaced players like Keßler, or Fischer, currently missing a genuine spine of domestic talent providing continuity/strength.

    Bayern have simply recruited foreign, and domestic talents, better than Wolfsburg, and will only continue to develop a style of football that will eventually make the national team better too. They're basically building what Wolfsburg used to be.
     
  17. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #292 Batfink, Jun 6, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2021
    I'm not talking about some irrelevant win/loss record lol. These wnt's produced highly successful football that made more professionally run (basically club sides) USwnt's look damn ordinary.

    The DFB wants to believe it's wnt program still the summit for German women's football, and use old thinking to justify horribly amateurish behaviour when it comes to them dismissing talent developed within junior wnt's, and the club game.

    So yes... I can 100% complain about the absolute waste of resources on show from the wnt program; when the current coach can't even construct a team around 14 players, thinking it's rational to select 27 players for two friendly matches, and only have 5 of those names recognized as competent defenders...:confused:

    Bühl/Brand --------------------- Popp/Schüller -------------------- Huth/Waßmuth
    ------------------------------- Magull/Dallmann/Lohmann ------------------------------------------
    --------- Oberdorf/Nüsken/Lattwein ---- Marozsán/Leupolz/Däbritz ------------
    Simon/Rauch ----- Hegering --------- Doorsoun/Kleinherne ------ Hendrich/Maier
    ------------------------------- Schult/Frohms/Benkarth --------------------------------------

    According to you, I can't complain about the poor coaching that still can't find 14 players, or a style of play that actually fits a German identity...:unsure:
     
  18. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I really think Wolfsburg will beat out Bayern next season based that their bringing in Wassmuth & Lattwein & hopefully Bremer be back as well, plus a lil Dutch pizazz to spice things up! lol

    meantime all the scorers supposedly missing from BM not going to matter do much if they continue to play a rather slow, build up offense(yet don’t want to use Dallmann & Lohmann at the same time) & can’t seem to counter with much confidence anymore(unless it’s Bereensteyn with her solo runs). Sure, their going have some of Germany’s best FB’s(Simon, Rall, Gwinn) but this season they preferred the two Swedes instead(Ilestedt & Glas)


    MVT definitely needs to find a smaller lineup then she’s been using; do to a continues experimenting with starters & tactics is in part why she lost the WC(whereas the most successful teams knew all ready what they wanted by the time the tourney started). But there’s no need to hit the panic button yet; she still gets to see one more full Bundi season to find potential, hidden nuggets ala Brand. I still feel like in order to win the Euros, she’s got to produce the next Miedema or Harder. Now Brand has the potential, but she’s not there yet. Plus find a couple more like Brand(would be icing on the cake!)
     
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  19. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    ...:unsure: Your saying Wolfsburg will magically improve it's defense, and attack, significantly enough to best a Bayern side who's also going to get stronger come next season too.

    I would be more willing to believe this, if I'd seen any evidence of Wolfsburg's recruitment policy improving. But seeing Bayern's significantly improved recruitment policy with Jens Scheuer, I genuinely believe Wolfsburg's going to have it harder next season, not easier.

    You obviously underestimate the significance of what I'm highlighting here, but just compare both teams current domestic options... Bayern's domestic internationals are basically the future core of the national team, and over a longer period of time, this is going to matter a lot more alongside their improved foreign recruitment policy.

    Huth ----------- Popp --- Bremer --------- Waßmuth
    -------------- Lattwien -------- Oberdorf ---------------
    Rauch ---- Wedemeyer - Doorsoun ---- Hendrich

    Vs

    Bühl ----------- Schüller --- Dallmann --------- Gwinn
    --------------- Lohmann -------- Magull -----------------
    Simon ------- Hegering ----- Demann ---------- Rall
     
  20. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #295 Batfink, Jun 7, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
    Yeah... she's wasting time... I've seen this pattern long enough to know what's happening, and it's not a scenario that leads to the German wnt looking anything but completely unprepared for another major international tournament...:cautious:

    With limited contact with players, It can take a long time for a national coach to develop a strong/organized core. And if people haven't noticed, Germany's wnt has looked pretty underwhelming in numerous tournaments for a decade...:speechless:; and this while using the very similar bloated/convoluted squad building processes we're witnessing with MVT right now.

    Think... has the team MVT took to the WWC genuinely improved? Germany's clubs and junior wnt's are creating players to fulfill the demands of a 4-2-3-1 formation, so what's the malfunction with the senior wnt...?
     
  21. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #296 Batfink, Jun 7, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
    27 players in the latest squad, some peoples panic buttons should be getting really hard looks right now; and yet some will defend the idea it's got absolutely zero connection to the kinds of nonsense that allowed a confused Doorsoun - Oberdorf - Lattwein - Kleinherne to face Netherlands.

    See... is another club and junior wnt season going to have MVT suddenly select impressive junior wnt defenders like Schiemann, Küver, Stegemann, for the senior team... no.

    Does it really need another year for MVT to understand the obvious flaws in wasting match time on Krumbiegel, when she's already got Waßmuth, Anyomi, Gwinn, Huth, Brand, Bühl, Wamser, as vastly superior WF options.

    MVT hasn't even consistently used standout league players like Lohmann, Oberdorf, Lattwein, in their preferred roles yet... but that's somehow OK, because the solution here is MVT does all this to cultivate her version of Miedema, or Harder..:confused:
     
  22. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Just in; It’s Maxi Rall replacing Doorsoun. Sounds like MVT is listening to Batfink:thumbsup:
     
  23. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Reading on another forum; there’s some deference as to whether Doursoon withdrew do to injury, or she just didn’t want to play in the next couple of friendlies, but Rall’s a pretty good choice as she can now take over the right Fb is where Hendrich(who’s out as well). Of course hoping that MVT doesn’t start Brand there now that she’s got Rall(this leaving Brand to move somewhere upfield).
    Rall’s got that tall physical/athletic look more associated with Sweden. Just worry as Hoffenheim lets her make down solo runs with the ball upfield, but if she gets dispossessed, it could lead to quick counters against her undefended right flank.
    Last time they played France, Germany won 1-0 in the away match in 2019. If I recall; their played an right defense. That now seems like uncharacteristic since MVT these days likes to push her defenders more upfield. I also remembered they did start Elsig, Hendrich, Leupolz, 3 of Germany’s most agile defenders. Shockingly all 3 didn’t even play months later in the WC quarters loss to Sweden.

    Not sure what to expect with France; their coach has her favorites, but they do often look like 2nd tier players; her captain is the right side FB named Torrent. Kinda reminds of an French version of Leonnie Maier; smart passer going forward, but horribly weak, slow defender. So hopefully MVT takes advantage of that and gets the ball to Buhl or Brand(if she’s starting) as both would burn Torrent if they take her 1v1.
    France actually had some promising youth players who have often outshined Germany in past youth competitions, but they’ve into making them viable senior players.
    So here’s hoping that MVT remembers what worked in the past; tight defense, plus quick counters up her left ala Australia/Norway & doesn’t go into that annoying ball control/possession game like vs Belgium/Netherlands(where their defense all the time in the world to set up their defenses)
     
  24. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Doorsoun has a bone and tendon bruise on her left foot. Maybe someone confused it with Ann-Katrin Berger who doesn`t play for personal reasons.
     
  25. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Now Melanie Leupolz got diagnosed with tonsillitis, not sure yet if she’ll be replaced
     

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