Re: World Cup Announcements Geographically: east of Poland, including the Baltics, Finland and FSU. As a political term is somewhat irrelevant and is sort of replaced by recent EU entrants (post 2003) and non EU. (Essentially Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Russia and some Balkan state).
Re: World Cup Announcements Sounds arbitrary either way. The problem with each is that you just named a few states without much reason behind it. First definition is weak since the geographic center of Europe is in Ukraine, making Ukraine pretty much a Central European country. This definition suggests that Eastern Europe includes European part of Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and the NW corner of Kazakhstan. Second one is weak because Switzerland is a part of it. Then you would come back and say, well, let's only count those in the East, which drops you back into the geographic definition. In all my thinking on this subject, I have so far found only two possible definitions and both have significant weaknesses: 1. Eastern Europe as a Slavic domain. Leaves out, of course, Transcaucasia, Moldova, Hungary, and Romania, in the midst of the Slavic-speaking land mass. 2. Eastern Europe as a former Socialist camp - a far better definition, yet it really flies in the face of geography, as you have non-Socialist countries way East of some of the truly Eastern European countries. Nothing is perfect though, as the state of Virginia has points West of the entire state of West Virginia.
Re: World Cup Announcements It's an arbitrary definition that doesn't mean much. Europe itself should not exist as a continent, as it really is just a part of Eurasia, but political concerns created a new continent. The majority of people in Europe live in area around Germany, which makes it much more central than Ukraine, which relies on empty permafrost in Russia and non-cultural European territories like the Caucauses. Ergo if Germany is the population center of a made up continent, then it might as well be called central, and east and west can float from that. As for the political definition, maybe the EU was the wrong term to use. How about integrated into European institutions(the old EU plus Norway, Switzerland, etc), newly integrated to European institutions (Poland, Romania, Hungary etc), outside of European institutions (FSU minus the Baltics).
Re: World Cup Announcements Only If it is a REALLY BIG AREA, like half a continent. Germany is only the second most populated country in Europe, and unless you lump in everybody east of Spain and the Channel and everyone West of Kaliningrad and North of Danube, you won't get the majority
Re: World Cup Announcements I am talking of the "definitions I found" You can provide your own. In fact, why don't you? I am exhausted and in need of comedy.
Re: World Cup Announcements If you really think that the population center of the continent is somewhere other than around Germany, that's fine. I am not going to argue with you about something that seems rather obvious to me. But my final point is, look at the map. On this arbitrary continent, the central population density, the middle part of the populated areas of the continent is in Germany and the low countries. If you think that Ukraine should be central europe, nobody is going to stop you, but you are going to confuse a lot of people.
Re: World Cup Announcements Well, first of all, you have brought here the map representing density of population. That is, of course, a much different thing than the absolute amount of population. Monaco, for example, represents one of the highest population densities, however no one will confuse them of having the most population. Same here. A relatively small area with a high population density still has a small population. In fact, there is more population in the much less densely populated Eastern European river systems. But that is irrelevant. The geographic center of Europe is in Ukraine. That is the point equally-removed from the borders of the European continent. It was measured by the Austro-Hungarian geographers and later confirmed by the Soviet geographers and is located near the village Dilove in Transcarpathian Ukraine, near the Romanian border. You can be free to call that "schmat" of densely populated Northwest Europe its cultural, social, demographical center but geographical center is not. Same with USA, the most densely populated areas are quite far removed from the geographic center of the North-American continent
Re: World Cup Announcements My geographical definition Eastern Europe = Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltics. Czech Republic and Germany is Central Europe. My political definition=ex USSR fringe border states, east of Russia, without going to far North or South.
Re: World Cup Announcements I don't know what schmat is, but like I said, if want western Europe to be every country minus about 10, go ahead. But no one is going to know what you are talking about.
Re: World Cup Announcements RC, I provided my two definitions, which may or may not be right and you're welcome to provide yours. The thing about my definitions, while they may or may not be right or even acceptable, they are not arbitrary.
Re: World Cup Announcements I will grant you that under a strict geographic definition, Ukraine is central Europe.
Re: World Cup Announcements Well, it seems like every one and their mother has a different idea about this... I've been to the one in Lithuania, nice monument, and a beautiful view. I think we may have woken up the keeper of the tourist trap shop right next to the monument, not sure a lot of visitors go thru there...
Re: World Cup Announcements ...and I've always used the geopolitical definition of former East Bloc states (g74s #2), which I think has been appropriate up until recently. However, with the political and economic divide between these nation-states in close proximity being much different than it was in the 1990s (Poland and the Baltic States as compared to Belarus, for example, or Hungary/Romania/Bulgaria as compared to Moldova,) it is probably time for a new definition that is more appropriate to the modern era. If one wanted to limit the definition by the linguistic family tree, lumping the South, West, and East Slavs all together geographically makes some sense, save for that finger of Magyars, Wallachians and Moldovans that sticks out right in the middle...
Re: World Cup Announcements That's why I think you have to have a three tiered system now. You have the old European integration. What was once "western europe" in the political sense, Germany, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, Britain etc. Then you have the newly integrating countries from the "Eastern" bloc who all have similar structures and issues. This would be Poland, Croatia, Romania, Slovakia etc, along with possibly Albania, Macedonia (new NATO members). Finally you have the non integrated ones, countries that make no effort to be a part of the new european institutions, whether it be Schengen, the EU, ECC or NATO. This would be the FSU minus the Baltics. The Balkans however, much like during the Cold war, present a difficult area to classify. Serbia is neither European integrating, nor is it outside of them like the FSU countries. Turkey is a special case as well.