General PDL

Discussion in 'United Soccer Leagues' started by QuietType, May 11, 2012.

  1. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. adoptedsooner

    adoptedsooner Member

    Dec 5, 2007
    Norman
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Coverage of OKC's men's team: http://bit.ly/18yv1Ch. There are other stories on the OKC PDL and WPSL teams. Thanks for reading!
     
  3. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd love to know who the six people were at the Fire - Bucks match.
    As you note for Fresno, all tick's are free. It would be interesting to know how many of each team were paid versus free. (Part of my query is that the Bucks are bidding to host the final four if they advance, but have lost out on this in the past to Laredo who also gave out all freebies.)
     
  6. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We would all love to have paid vs. free for everybody.

    Mark Ziegler found out for MLS about 8 years ago.

    I have some actual MISL numbers from several years ago.

    In general, giving away tickets is a bad idea. Fresno's are at least bought by a sponsor. Which is one way to go.
     
  7. SnakeEyes

    SnakeEyes Member

    Oct 7, 2001
    For the menace its paid vs actual
     
  8. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Austin wins the USL PDL final 3-1. Tonight's #PDL Championship Game official attendance: 4,253
     
  10. -ATX-

    -ATX- Member

    Mar 24, 2009
    Austin
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    PDL Championship video, Aztex win it.
     
  11. adoptedsooner

    adoptedsooner Member

    Dec 5, 2007
    Norman
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. ButlerBob

    ButlerBob Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    Evanston, IL
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And the Chill have another player sent off in the first half of a final.
     
  13. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Awesome, another club that will draw <800 fans per game
     
  15. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As do most PDL clubs. And a couple above that, even.
     
  16. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

    Oct 12, 2005
    PuertoPlata, DomRep
    1 in Dayton, 1 in Houston and now 1 in Cin City ? :thumbsdown:
     
  17. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because clubs are built around attracting fans?

    The last thing I checked, PDL was for "development." That could be for development of a player and/or [future] players.
     
  18. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Uh, yeah? To an extent they should be, especially if they want to make money and build their organization? AM I missing something here?

    No problem there, actually. OKC"s PDL team played Houston Dutch Lions last year and that was great. I think I even heard that one of their goalkeepers said he would love to come to OKC to play because of the fan support.
    I guess my only problem is that Dayton Dutch Lions are in USL PRO, which "last I checked", was
    and they also draw <1000/game. Don't you think a "PRO" team should be, to an extent at least, "built around attracting fans"?
     
  19. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Slightly. There are, even within a league (be it the PDL, the NPSL or the W-League), organizations with very different ideas about what they want to accomplish. Some - usually the ones run by entrepreneurs and business people - recognize they need to function as a viable business and attract fans and be, for lack of a better term, a "real" club that does all those things.

    Others - usually the ones run by coaches - merely want to provide a vehicle for (usually local) players to play more games, get better at the game and increase their opportunities to play at a high level. They do the minimum they have to do from an organizational standpoint so that there can be a game on a field with referees and a ball and people have a place to sit, but they're not equipped to do sales and marketing and attempt to be a business in any real sense of the word.

    In most places, the PDL wouldn't be an easy sell to begin with, but there have been a handful of clubs who are really good at doing it (and the really ambitious ones also develop players). It's not easy, though, and it's not inexpensive. It's not so much that the River City Rovers and Westchester Flames try really hard to sell tickets and just don't know how or are in places where nobody likes soccer - it's more that they're not emphasizing that in their purpose. Some do. Many don't.

    Unless you have virtually unlimited resources, there's no question that to be a viable business, you have to generate revenue. And at the lower levels, you have to sell tickets - everything springs from there (sponsorships, everything). Again, it's expensive to do well, and if you're also paying players and don't have unlimited resources, some things go by the wayside (unfortunately). Often D3 clubs are started by well-intentioned people who don't always realize exactly how expensive it is to do this well and you see the results. It's not all that difficult anymore to find 18 soccer players who know how to play at a reasonable standard. It is rather difficult to find people who you can afford and who you can keep who can sell tickets and generate revenue. Unfortunately, too many "soccer people" have this idea that if they just get the 18 players and they're good enough, the rest takes care of itself.

    But it usually doesn't.

    I'm with you in that I think if you're going to be a "pro" organization, you have to sell and market and act like a grownup. Not everybody, unfortunately, agrees.
     
  20. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Basically what kenn said...

    Last time I checked, professional sports franchises aren't good businesses. The franchise with the most worth is Real Madrid with $3.3 billion. Now...that's a lot of money, no doubt...but that's NOWHERE near the Fortune 500. Wal-Mart tops the list with $469.2 billion. Number 500, Nash-Finch rounds out the list at $4.8 billion. This is only American companies. I would imagine that the sports franchise with the most value (in this case, Real Madrid and $3.3 billion) comes in WAY down the list in making money and organization built.

    So, if someone wants to make money and build something, don't do it with a sports franchise. Especially don't do it with lower tier sports franchises in America. But, if you want to do something MORE, then one may be on the right track.

    In its current state, I figure the Dutch Lions want to build soccer in America -- and in certain parts. Sure, having people at matches is a plus, but that's a secondary reason for what they are doing. That's just my opinion on it. But a developmental club, which can encompass YMCA, AYSO, USYSA, your local youth league, etc., are they in it to make money too? Should they be concerned with turning profits and ensuring attendance is necessary? People can do things beside try to make a buck. Check out the Charlotte Eagles (2013 USL Pro runners-up).
     
  21. arsenalfc08

    arsenalfc08 Member

    Mar 14, 2005
    #123 arsenalfc08, Oct 2, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2013
    Cincinnati will also have an NPSL team, the Cincy Saints starting up for next season. This is good for the local college players, they have options. We had the Cincinnati Kings but they struggled for years so I'm obviously curious to see how Cincinnati Dutch Lions will do.
     
  22. ButlerBob

    ButlerBob Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    Evanston, IL
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seems like a interesting move. And looks like could be kind of a development / feeder / reserve team for the Dayton team. Well it seems like this group has some funding with the additional teams that they are setting up. Not a ton, but enough to pay the expansion fee and fund the team. I forget what the current PDL franchise is going for, but I seem to remember that it's pretty close to 100k. And throw in another 100- 200k to run the team. I wonder if they have some local investors for this new club. It sounds like the main guys for Dayton have some ties to the area and probably connections.
     
  23. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    no no no the PDL fee has decreased very significantly, I can look it up tomorrow but I want to say that the USL PDL franchise fee is now only $25K.
     

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