General Assignments Discussion

Discussion in 'World Cup 2022 - Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Nov 18, 2022.

  1. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    Gallo as VAR with Sampaio. Vigliano as VAR with Tello.
     
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  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe France had 6 in 1990. Which, given there were 24 teams, might be considered more impressive (leaving aside any arguments--in either direction--regarding the fact that those referees were also serving as linesmen).
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Villarreal support VAR (AVAR3) with Tello. So every PRO official there save Elfath is working the QFs.
     
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  4. seattlebeach

    seattlebeach Member

    AFC Richmond
    May 11, 2015
    Not Seattle, Not Beach
    Yep, I think this is exactly right, and as a bonus, was pretty easy to do and preserved a ton of optionality. Now you're done with CONMEBOL and you can narrow selection to a handful of UEFA referees and that one "surprise" referee from CONCACAF (as opposed to the other surprise from CONCACAF, who's your CONCACAF #1 in 2026 unless a 44-year-old Elfath has that slot).

    The only prediction I'm semi-confident in before QFs is Elfath on ARG-BRA. If you're going to try to have him in at all, and not just go full UEFA - and if you weren't, I think he'd be Sampaio's 4th - you can't save him for the Final b/c either Portugal or Morocco could be in it after QFs, plus you've seen he has the right tone to manage it. Again maximizes your options for mixing the UEFA referees based on (primarily) France.
     
  5. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Does anyone know if there’s going to be a referee briefing like there was four years ago?
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m not quite certain Elfath fits on Brazil-Argentina. I waffle on this. I kind of hope he does because that semi is the only obvious option for him, but at the same time I think he might more likely be a contingency plan for the final. Bluntly, Argentina-Brazil as a WC semi might be one of the most challenging matches in recent WC history. It doesn’t exactly scream “man managing referee from the United States.” And if Elfath had a game like the group stage or had an incident like in MLS Cup, it could be disastrous. So I wonder how much his two recent performances has glossed over the previous two in FIFA’s mind. I could easily see Orsato slotting there.

    Then the other side depends on the matchup but probably Marciniak. That then creates a situation where Elfath can get the final unless it involves Portugal… and, maybe, even then?

    I don’t know. Part of me is souring on the idea he will be used. But, of course, we haven’t seen the matchups yet. Netherlands-Brazil, for example, would almost certainly be his, I think.

    But Argentina-Brazil semi is in another stratosphere. We haven’t seen a game like it in quite some time.
     
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  7. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    #657 StarTime, Dec 8, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2022
    The more we talk about this the more I woe the fact that we lost out on a Brazil - Argentina final in Rio in 2014. Stupid Germans had to ruin all the fun.

    It does feel like a lot depends on the matchups. I wonder how much political juice the Brazilian lobby has left in the tank. If Brazil beats Argentina en route to the final, will they want to lose the “last word” by having a UEFA referee in a break of confederation neutrality? Perhaps in that case, a North American has a shot (I say “North American” instead of “Elfath” because I’m still not giving up on Ramos. I will die on this hill!)

    In a perfect world without political influence, I think giving UEFA a sweep of these final three games would be the most likely scenario. I just wonder how much of a fuss Seneme and his gang would put up about that.

    The only things I’m sure about right now is that Orsato has a semifinal and Marciniak has either a semi or a final. But which one that is depends on who the third referee is, which depends itself on results and performances. It could really be anyone: Elfath, (Ramos! ;) ), Lahoz, Turpin, Oliver, maybe they’re still holding out on Makkelie, maybe Sampaio has some backing if Brazil gets booted by Croatia!
     
  8. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s kind of a shame Brazil-Argentina didn’t happen four years ago. Rocchi or Kuipers (for totally different reasons) would have been fun to watch on that one.
     
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  9. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    How much would a CRO/ARG SF shake up things? I’m not versed on the inner workings of WC assignments but I would think this would be the most likely matchup for Elfath to get a whistle.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chances Collina's cell phone is buzzing with the name "Seneme" showing?
     
  11. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well....
     
  12. ColoradoRef

    ColoradoRef Member

    Jul 10, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe If Morocco lose and Argentina win, Elfath on the Croatia/Argentina semi . . .
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be clear, I still think Seneme--er, Sampaio--is done.

    But I agree this opens up Elfath to the semifinal if it's against Argentina. Morocco still has to lose, though?
     
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  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder what Netherlands-Croatia would be. Sort of think FIFA would still put Elfath there--especially if the other side is Portugal v England/France. Four UEFA teams with three UEFA referees just wouldn't fly, which helps Elfath.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This really could be this simple right now:

    Elfath - Croatia v ARG/NED winner
    Orsato - FRA/ENG v POR/MAR winner

    Marciniak - Final

    If you don't want to deviate from that, you don't have to.

    The alternative seems to be:

    Orsato/Marciniak semis
    Turpin/Oliver/Mateu final

    But is a UEFA trifecta palatable?
     
  16. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    What are the chances for Eltfath if it's an ARG v ENG/FRA final?
     
  17. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We know POR or MAR will be in the semi. Would you rather give him the guarenteed other semi or risk not being able to use him if one of those makes the final?
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No idea. I don't think they are great. Would Argentina bite on a US referee against England? I don't think so. Maybe France more likely?

    But the bigger question is whether it's better for Elfath to be saved for a WC Final he might not be able to get (or might not be the first choice for) or to be used on a WC Semifinal. And I don't know the answer to that either.

    I would guess, at this point, that Elfath would be FO on the Final if he gets shutout otherwise.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right. Also we are making a big assumption in this calculation. He's not even necessarily the first choice if he CAN get the Final.

    I'm starting to come around to the idea that Elfath could see Portugal again, though. Not that I think he will. But that he could. The controversy wasn't that bad. Like Elfath would see Portugal before Makkelie, for example.
     
  20. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    If Ronaldo is clearly relegated to the bench and Portugal didn't object, I could see it. Not sure if they would want him though after how that first match went overall.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah and there's no reason to gamble. I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that this is now all very simple.

    Elfath on SF1
    Orsato on SF2
    Marciniak on the Final

    I think the only thing(s) that could make me reconsider at all would be France losing (so door open for Turpin) and Morocco winning (but I'm not even sure that affects Elfath). I think I predict the above and will stick to it.
     
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  22. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    Go for the early Superfecta? How about the 3/4 game?
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Al-Jassim.
     
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  24. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    you from the future?
     
  25. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    If Mateu Lahoz had any shot of the final before this game I think his screen time in ARG-NED has quashed any of those ideas.
     
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