General Assignments Discussion

Discussion in 'World Cup 2022 - Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Nov 18, 2022.

  1. allan_park

    allan_park Member

    May 15, 2000
    I have been keeping out of this discussion for a couple of reasons, not least because I am hopeless at this "prediction game". That said, I do have a couple of fairly random thoughts on this.

    Firstly, I agree with MassRef - most of the top guys are normally off after the World Cup, so if FIFA wanted to keep a larger number at a "traditional" WC, they could. Not sure what the significance of the larger number this time is, but I guess we will see.

    Secondly, to repeat something I think has been said before - probably every 4 years - I don't think you will find any top-level Referee (certainly not in UEFA) who considers an appointment on the 3rd/4th place match as being a reward. The vast majority of them would rather be on the flight home if they are not working the Final, and that is even more likely this time around as the match itself will be even less prestigious this time around.

    Lastly, I think Marciniak has a greater chance of a significant game than many here would seem to think.
     
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  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    100% agree with every word in your post (particularly the Marciniak part) except this. I don't think it affects how the UEFA guys perceive 3/4, but I wonder what you mean by "less prestigious this time around."

    There's a not insignificant chance it is Messi's or Ronaldo's last World Cup match. Or even their last head-to-head match internationally. Again, I don't think it affects how the UEFA referees would see the match, but it does seem like, from a footballing perspective, there's a decent chance the 3/4 playoff is more significant than normal. So just wondering what you meant here.
     
  3. USSF REF

    USSF REF Member+

    Leeds (for now)
    United States
    Nov 6, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Alright. I shouldn't think out loud so much.

    So, I was trying to understand why it was different this time and what the positives were of keeping more officials around, and if the timing of this world cup made it somehow different.

    You have convinced me that this is a bad idea, but of little consequence to anyone.
     
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  4. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I won't rep this full comment, but will certainly acknowledge that I laughed out loud at this final line. The idea of Makkelie letting Taylor or Turpin drop straight to the ground on a trust fall made me laugh loudly enough that my wife asked what was so funny.
     
  5. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    I pictured an exercise in the desert.
     
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  6. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    Birmingham, AL
    Is Makkelie not FIFA's #1? I thought he was a favorite for the Final.
     
  7. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    He’s an excellent referee….not sure he’s the kind of personality you want to put on a game that nearly a billion people (and all the extraterrestrials) will be watching.
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, he's not. He had VAR experience at WC18. Other than that he hasn't done that much (relatively speaking, of course) at the FIFA level.

    Turpin, Mateu Lahoz and Marciniak are all returning WC referees.
    Orsato, Turpin and Mateu Lahoz are all UCL Final referees, too.

    And given what Taylor has done within UEFA and Oliver within FIFA, I'm not sure the English guys aren't ahead of him either. But, for sure the four referees above are.

    Doesn't mean he doesn't get a match and doesn't mean he doesn't strike lightning. But other than maybe England v France, I don't expect to see him again. He also has the added restrictions of the Dutch and Portugal (I highly doubt he'd get Portugal again after the qualification issue, but maybe I'm wrong there). So I genuinely don't see what match he could get other than France v England. Plus, well, the Messi penalty was garbage. But maybe FIFA doesn't want to concede that?
     
  9. jdmahoney

    jdmahoney Member

    Feb 28, 2017
    Plymouth, MN
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Oliver gets Croatia-Brazil, Mateu Lahoz on Netherlands-Argentina.
     
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  10. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Mateu on Argentina vs. Netherlands.

    Oliver on Croatia vs. Brazil.
     
  11. USSF REF

    USSF REF Member+

    Leeds (for now)
    United States
    Nov 6, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Neutrality is nothing.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Going to savor this one, because it could be the last time I'm right.
     
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  13. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    There's a partial answer to your Mateu and Messi question.
     
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  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Importantly, I think...

    Ghorbal is 4O for Oliver and Gomes 4O for Mateu. That feels like the "thanks for playing, CAF" door prize.

    Oliver has Burt and Beswick. If that's not a typo, it means FIFA blew up Oliver's trio and put Taylor's AR1 as his AR2. There's got to be a story there!

    Nesbitt AVAR(2) for Oliver and Parker AVAR(4) for Mateu.

    EDIT: Fischer is AVAR for Mateu

    Van Boekel is VAR for Oliver, which means I don't think you see Makkelie on the QFs. Also, FIFA was okay with the send down of the Messi penalty? Either that, or they weren't but they didn't want to toss Van Boekel overboard.

    A LOT going on here.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Editing a mistake above based on a misread. Fischer is main AVAR, not VAR.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States




    Note there's now a stand-by VAR in the stadium, too. So the number of assignments did increase. Seems like an easy way to ensure the Moroccan and Singapore VARs both get an assignment.
     
  17. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Standby VAR? Are you kidding me!? What the hell is this?

    In case the VAR gets sick in the middle of the game?

    Didn't they use to have an extra 4th official at youth regionals to make sure no one was left put? This is basically that equivalent.

    Why not just put all the referees not working and able to work in a conference room and watch the match?

    Let's just bring out all the referees after the Final and award them medals.

    Ridiculous.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean, stand-by VAR seems actually less ridiculous than stand-by AVAR. Like, in the group stage if VAR failed, a bunch of unqualified fourth officials were on deck to operate a VAR system in-stadium when, I believe, something close to none of them had ever done it in international competition (maybe Ortega is a VAR? and I suppose Martinez has probably done it... but think about all the other 4ths).

    But yeah, obviously this is to award an additional assignment. No way Jiyed was getting a match, so here you go. I expect the Singapore VAR in the same role when tomorrow's assignments come out.
     
  19. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A la Baharmast, I've heard this picture is making the rounds in Qatar.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As ideas come into my head... given FIFA twice had to change assignments last round because they assigned ARs to VOR roles the previous day, you would think--with the two days of rest and planning--they won't have to do that again. That means Elfath is out for the other QFs. That should be obvious, as he can't work Morocco and he wouldn't get France-England. But it is pretty clearly confirmation it's final three matches or bust for him.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never doubted it was a careless striking foul.

    I've just doubted that we've ever sent those down via VAR--particularly after the shot was already taken--prior to, well, this one.
     
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  22. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    Lol, there are now the same number of starters on all 3 teams. Who else worked their last match solo?
     
  23. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Beswick used to be on Oliver’s crew several years ago. I noticed the switch and always wondered why.

    Obviously FIFA thinks that Beswick is more accurate?

    Edit: perhaps injury/illness to Bennett? If so, surprised they broke up the crew instead of simply assigning Taylor’s trio.
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And along those lines, Van Boekel and Irrati both busy would indicate Orsato and Makkelie are off England-France. So...

    I'll go Marciniak for England-France and Sampaio for Portugal-Morocco (but that has to be a real tight race with Claus).

    I suppose England-France could be Tello, though. That would be interesting.
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, I would not think the switch is that simple. Oliver has had this crew for every international match he's done the past three years, right (or close to it)? He usurps Taylor on a WC QF and suddenly one AR is swapped in for another? My gut says illness but it could be something else. I'd put performance down as the third option, unless someone can find some sort of glaringly bad miss from this tournament.
     

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