General Assignments Discussion

Discussion in 'World Cup 2022 - Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Nov 18, 2022.

  1. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
  2. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Yes, FIFA will cut a number of officials out after the R16 stage.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What’s there to explain?
     
  4. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Hmph. But the issue here wasn’t the review of a non-reviewable decision. It was changing a decision after the time in which a referee is permitted to change a decision under the LOTG.

    Just sweep that under the rug, folks, nothing to see here, go back to watching the games . . . .
     
  5. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FIFA has to choose between two impossibilities. Do they:
    A. let the referee crew change their decision and disallow a goal not only after a restart, but after both a restart and the game has ended? HA! Impossible.
    or
    B. Let teams appeal a wrong use of VAR, when the laws expressly say wrong uses of VAR are nto protestable. NO WAY! It can't be done.

    So, one of those two things have to happen. FIFA is in a no win situation on this, so dismissing it while France keeps winning (instead of after they lose, if they lose) is the path of least resistance.
     
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  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Portugal winning would be very bad for Elfath now, if you're looking at the possibility of his trio getting the final.

    Morocco advancing his an obvious problem. But I don't think Elfath with Ronaldo again is something that FIFA wants either. So to the extent it guarantees one of those teams would be in the semis, it would push him into the other semi. And Morocco winning might eliminate him altogether--not sure about that one.
     
  7. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IS THAT ANTONIO LATEU LAHOZ'S MUSIC?!?!?!
     
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  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh right. He becomes a Final candidate now, too.

    I think until Spain lost, you were more or less looking at Orsato/Marciniak/Elfath with Sampaio being an outside shot. But Mateu is back in play and the loser of France/England is back in play, too.
     
  9. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A Brazil/Argentina semi appointment almost feels better than the final TBH.
     
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  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tougher? Sure. Don't think I would say better.

    But yeah, he might slot there by default if results go a certain way. And that would be hugely impressive.
     
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  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the category of "no other place to put it and not worth starting its own thread," but...

    It's fascinating how many saves we've seen on penalties--both in normal play and in KFTM. It feels like the specter of VAR intervention on penalties has almost counterintuitively made keepers better at them. It seems like it's forced them to really practice and train for reacting and using leverage off the goal line, rather than relying on attempting to cut down the angle and consequently reacting later. I'm obviously no expert here, but it's definitely noticeable and goes against what I think people all assumed the consequence would be of more rigid enforcement of Law 14.
     
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  12. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think I mentioned something similar during the euros. Keepers have really started to get good at timing things.
     
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  13. USSF REF

    USSF REF Member+

    Leeds (for now)
    United States
    Nov 6, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's probably down to having more data driven training for the keepers. Moneyball is real.

    The whole point of enforcing law 14 strictly is to makecit harder on the GK by not allowing them to reduce the available shooting angle.

    But, the bigger question for me is this. Why are kickers not just running up and hitting it hard at a corner? We see hop, skip, jump penalties and bad panenkas (sp?), practically walking up, or ball placement within the easy reach for keepers when they dive. I don't care how much film you study, if you put the ball into the upper 90 with pace, more often than not you will have an unsavable shot unless the GK knows exactly where you're going.
     
  14. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thinking further I feel like Lahoz is meant for an Argentina/Brazil SF.
     
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  15. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Not to in any way suggest equivalency, but as a keeper myself I find that no longer being rooted to the ground until the kick is a game-changer. The Morocco keeper made at least one save where he triple-crossed the kicker.

    That, and money-ball, and timing, starts to tip this toward counting cards in a single-deck blackjack game.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe. But then who slots in on NED-ARG? I suppose Elfath could land there as an additional test + insurance against him being shutout of the final three matches.

    I'm actually not sure Mateu Lahoz is the right referee for ARG-BRA. Not sure any referee is. But I could see them simply just trusting Orsato on it and letting the chips fall as they may. Particularly if, politically, you can't give an Italian the final again... that would be the biggest consolation prize ever.

    Mateu Lahoz could swap over to ENG-FRA now, since it doesn't affect who plays Spain. I think QFs are probably sketched out like this:

    NED-ARG Mateu Lahoz or Elfath
    BRA-CRO Taylor or Oliver
    ENG-FRA Mateu Lahoz/Marciniak/Orsato/Makkelie
    MAR-POR/SUI Claus/Sampaio

    And then the names for the semis come from two of the referees who don't work there.

    And the names for the final are some of the names above plus Turpin, if France loses.
     
  17. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    2 of Morocco's 3 makes were straight up the middle. . . .

    I do think the science of scouting the other team's kickers has been improving. But the number of very poorly struck kicks (Japan!) has really been surprising. I think that scouting also means that players feel they need more options, which means they aren't necessarily using their "best" kick all the time. I think many keepers are also getting bigger.

    Back in the day when I was a keeper, we still had to have our feet stationery until the ball was kicked. Being able to move definitely does a lot to help the keepers, not just in actually making saves, but in the gamesmanship of getting in the kicker's head.
     
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  18. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Sort of an all-tournament question, not just FWC22:

    Do the guys who might have gotten late-stage games on merit, but didn't (due to confederation/team conflict or simple math) carry any brownie points with them into the future, or does the magic associated with domestic/confederation/global games start clean for each tournament?
     
  19. USSF REF

    USSF REF Member+

    Leeds (for now)
    United States
    Nov 6, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree, but my point is too many poor penalties are taken now. I was also a keeper and I moved a lot, just for that reason.
     
  20. StarTime

    StarTime Member

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    How many games have broken confederation neutrality so far? Was it just ARG-POL or was there another?
     
  21. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    Costa Rica and Germany.
     
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  22. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    My thoughts revolve around these ideas:

    - The three best referees are Mateu, Marciniak and Orsato, in my opinion the final should be a battle between those three. (At least) one of them will go directly to a semifinal, and hence automatically removed from the final running internally. Who though? 'History' tells us the Mateu personality never gets the final, and him for ARGBRA would be fully expected. Does Collina think he can get Orsato in? Or better to go direct semi. Marciniak looks like the ultra-dependable guy for SFs. Does he have a shot at the big one?

    - Because FIFA are in real trouble to find a non-UEFA SF ref in some scenarios, I really wonder if Tello will go to ENGFRA, with a Brazilian on MARPOR (and then Valenzuela on third).

    - Elfath should be an option for 'top bracket' semi if it isn't ARGBRA, but I think it is really misunderstanding FIFA's evaluation of him to suggest they keep him for such games. Could be wrong I guess, but I feel pretty sure about that.

    - Makkelie shouldn't be required now, I think? Turpin should be done. Same as AFC/CAF?

    - I'm guessing that FIFA's plan for mediocre Ramos was to give him the worst R16 (JPNCRO), but changed tack to get Elfath back in, and replaced a European crew on PORSUI. That Euro crew surely had to be Oliver or Taylor (rather the Geordie IMO but idk). If the 'lower bracket' quarterfinals are exclusively in CONMEBOL, then this could leave the PL guys as 'the odds ones out'?
     
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  23. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    FIFA have cut the officials this morning. Shockingly, Salima Mukansanga wasn't among them... :D.

     
  24. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    According to El Gráfico (Salvadoran sports newspaper), Barton stays.
     
  25. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    If we see Orsato on a quarter-final, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be him for the Final.

    It's too easy.

    He did the opening match, he's Italian, and would have the necessary gravitas and support to do pretty much any of the potential match ups without any conflict. No one would object to his name any of the potential World Cup Finals.

    Brazil vs. France? Check.

    Argentina vs. England? Check.

    Netherlands vs. Portugal? Check.

    Brazil vs. Portugal? Check.

    Argentina vs. Portugal? Check.

    Argentina vs. France? Check.

    Or they go with Elfath for Brazil vs. France (I mean a Moroccan born referee did the last Brazil vs. France World Cup Final).
     

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